Has the issue with using Audyssey on Onkyo/Integra pre-pro causing the A1400-8 to fail been fixed?
How does it compare with other Class-D amps such as D-Sonic Magnum 2500-7?
Well mine failed after a month but I use a Yamaha
Mel N.
I have an Integra DTC-9.8 pre-pro with the A1400-8. I have not used Audyssey but initially this was from personal choice. Now, I can't use it because of the reported amp failure by several users who used it. I think Axiom needs to make a statement. Either a warning that the amp should not be used with Audyssey or a fix. I think enough time has passed from the initial reports that a statement from Axiom is in order.
John
Would you be saying that this problem applies to any receiver auto set-up. The reason I ask is because if this is going to be a problem for me when I get my new amp, I better not use the auto feature. Would anyone from Axiom let me know, either using auto set-up is an issue with the amp or it is not.
Thanks
Mel N.
I've had an A-1400 for several months now without fail. I have not used Audyssey with it after the initial reports. I did my own calibration with an SP meter. (this takes about 10-15 minutes.) I'm using an Onkyo 908 as a pre-amp.
Apparently the flucutating voltage above 1.5-2v from the Audessey causes a safety shutdown of the A1400-8. This may be a common feature of some high-powered amps. Again, I never used Audyssey, by personal choice, but I wouldn't want the amp to fail if I choose to use it someday. I would greatly appreciate some official comment from Axiom on the issue.
John
I'm not sure what's causing my amps to fail. On my first two, the relays stopped engaging. I played around with Audyssey on the first amp, but I hadn't been using Audyssey for a while when it failed. The second amp failed a lot sooner with the same problem even though I didn't use Audyssey at all. My third amp came with one channel having a lot lower output than the other channels. I could calibrate it up to the correct volume, but Axiom decided to replace it anyway just to be sure. Kudos to them, but being on my third replacement amplifier has me wondering. I'm concerned about the relay problem cropping up again. But we'll see what Axiom says. As far as I know the problem could be my Integra DTC-9.8.
Maybe I'm just the new Randy of the group.
In response to the sound levels being low on your amp. How can you tell what the level is supposed to be? When I first got my system I hooked everything up to my Yamaha avr for a couple of days just to check if there would be any overheating issues. Then I hooked everything up to the A-1400. To my ear without a meter, I couldn't really tell a difference between the two (going by my avr readout). So I switch to my front two M80's and centre to the A-1400 and the two surround M80's to the Yamaha and kept it that way. I think I'll have to find an spl meter before my new amp shows, I don't need any more problems. So I ask again, How do I know if the amp is putting out (sound wise - db's) it's supposed to?
Mel N.
It's just that that specific channel was much quieter than the other 7. No matter what output from the processor was feeding it, its volume was lower. It was a very drastic difference. That channel had to be adjusted to +11 or so in the processor while all of the other channels were around -7 or -8 to get the same SPL.
Thanks for clarify it for me. I've got to get a meter before I touch my new amp. Thanks
Mel N.
Yes, a SPL meter is a must-have for dialing in speaker and subwoofer levels.
Audyssey does an excellent job of bass management, which I need to even out bass response at spots other than the primary listening one.
I would love to have an A-1400 once the QA issues and Audyssey problems are worked out.
It's just that that specific channel was much quieter than the other 7. No matter what output from the processor was feeding it, its volume was lower. It was a very drastic difference. That channel had to be adjusted to +11 or so in the processor while all of the other channels were around -7 or -8 to get the same SPL.
I gather that was a problem in a few of the early amps. My early lab amp also developed that issue. It was caused by a defective relay switch in one of the channels which was easily fixed by substituting a properly functioning new switch. Subsequent batches of relays are fine.
The Audessey incompatibility is another matter. From what I understand the problem is caused by the way the Audessey software keeps raising gain to test frequency response. If the preamp volume is set too high to start with, the DSP in the a-1400 triggers a safety shutdown to keep the amp from allocating excessive voltage. It doesn't appear to be a problem with auto-equalization programs other than Audessey. A simple solution would be to run Audessey at a lower volume say 65db instead of 75db.
There should be an addendum in the manual regarding Audessey.
So Jakeman, you are saying that my Yamaha auto setup would not have caused my problems. Just to clarify. It doesn't use audessey.
Mel N.
It is funny how these things get started some times. The official statement is that the A1400 does not care what you use for an auto EQ. I think this may have gotten confused with a comment I made to a customer once about the dangers of reducing sound quality by using EQ devices in general. This customer did complain that his A1400 shut down during the set up process with his Audyssey. We brought that amp back to the lab and the 2 main fuses were blown. We changed the fuses and Tom played that amp in his system for awhile and now it has been running the music in the factory ever since. We don’t know what caused the main fuses to blow but it would not be related to the Audyssey. We asked around and found no other people who had any issue with using Audyssey or any other EQ device on the A1400.
there you have it folks, an official statement from an official person
I suppose that's almost official enough.
I wonder what happened to stuntGibbons A-1400
I wonder what happened to stuntGibbons A-1400
I can assure you it wasn't Audyssey.
It is funny how these things get started some times. The official statement is that the A1400 does not care what you use for an auto EQ. I think this may have gotten confused with a comment I made to a customer once about the dangers of reducing sound quality by using EQ devices in general. This customer did complain that his A1400 shut down during the set up process with his Audyssey. We brought that amp back to the lab and the 2 main fuses were blown. We changed the fuses and Tom played that amp in his system for awhile and now it has been running the music in the factory ever since. We don’t know what caused the main fuses to blow but it would not be related to the Audyssey. We asked around and found no other people who had any issue with using Audyssey or any other EQ device on the A1400.
Thank you very much, Ian, for the reassurance that the A1400-8 should not have any issues with Audyssey (famous last words before ihifi rings Axiom Service next day with a non-functioning amp :))
As I mentioned I never used Audyssey and have no plans to do so. In fact, after watching your video on the use of multiple subs and how they improve FR across the whole listening area, I bought myself another EP-500. The FR is indeed much improved as seen by the curve on my SMS-1. It is very reassuring, nevertheless, that the amp will be ok if any room EQ is applied. Thanks again for your input.
John
I've never been satisfied with Audessey or any auto-equalization so I always suggest the manual approach. But if someone does insist on using Audessey as a precaution when using a high powered amp it would be worthwhile to start at a lower volume. Audessey is an overhyped fix-all product IMO. To the extent there is any problem its in the Audessey implementation and not in the A-1400.
This comment last March by Alan and Tom explains what might be happening as a result of how the Audessey increases volume from the preamp above and beyond common amp thresholds.
Hello all,
I just chatted with Tom Cumberland at Axiom about the issues with running Audyssey and the A1400-8, and here, slightly modified, is his explanation of what is happening, which confirms my own gut suspicions about what is occurring:
"The way Audyssey sets up the system is to increase the volume level to the amp until it ‘hears’ something. With an amp as powerful as the A-1400, this is a very dangerous approach. If the amp ‘sees’ more than 2.0 VRMS on the input (1.5VRMS is the standard for full power output of the A1400-8), it will more than likely do some damage somewhere. We believe that if the customer uses the manual setup to adjust the levels, he is unlikely to do any damage to either his speakers or the amplifier. The A-1400 is designed to follow the standard with a 1.5VRMS input producing full power output, and 1.7VRMS input as the clipping point. As you can see by the numbers, a little bit more input to the A1400 translates to a really big change in the amplifier's output. This is true for all very high powered amplifiers, ours included."
Regards,
Alan
Also, one of the danger is when all the lines are connected to the amp, but not all the speakers. Audyssey tries to discover the speakers by constantly increasing volume (voltage) until it can hear the speaker. Before running the Multi-EQ, I would first check (using the test tones) that all the channels are there and clearly audible.
Thanks Ian for the reply. I just purchased a spl meter and will go that route this time, out of curiosity. Thanks again
Mel N.
FYI, i didn't post an update. But Axiom thinks it was a relay issue with the amp not coming on. They claim it's been fixed in new models, and should be getting a replacement soon.
I'm thankful that on such a high-tag item, there's very little resistance in getting it fixed or replaced.
Hey StuntGibbon, did you have to contact Axiom yourself to find out what the problem was or did they contact you. I'm curious to know what had happened to my A-1400.
Thanks
Mel N.
I called them first. Waiting for the replacement to show up so I can send back the oldie in the box. But the guy on the phone mentioned it sounded like a relay issue.