Hey Guys,

Putting together a entire HT system from scratch, for my cousin, as I've mentionned it here a few times already :-)

As for the sub, have the EP500 on the list along with the M80s, VP150 and QS8s.. but does anyone have an opinion on the MFW15 as it compares to the EP500 ? I know that the EP500 has more power, ie: 500W vs 350W, and a 12" drivers vs a 15" driver.. and that the EP500 costs $500 more than the MFW15..

Much appreciated...

Riker

I wish I could tell you, but I won't be able to test out my new MFW-15 until I get my speakers and receiver in. That, along with the setup could be a good 2-3 weeks. I'll definately be putting up a review once I've got everything all set, albeit not a timely one for your current need.

Thanks J.P.

I am probably 4 to 6 weeks away from getting all the parts in, so your review will be still be timely and I look forward to reading it..

Not that JP has heard an EP500.

Unless of course he has.

JP also stole my Muppet Identity...can he really be trusted?

similar questions

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=14591&Number=208086#Post208086

I can't help but think that the ep500 is a better engineered product. but for 600 or 700 hundred dollars a 15" MFW looks fun!

Actually, I did when I was auditiioning the M80 setup. Jeff had an EP500, and I made sure to bring U-571 so we could check out the depth charge scene. So, I will be bringing some basis for comparision. But I will go ahead and state that the EP500 is a very nice sub, and the depth charge scene is a very nice scene.



Muppet avatar law does not apply to me!

If I were looking seriously at the EP500 I would also look at the PB13 ultra. The MFW15 would be a competitor to the 350.

isn't the pb13 like 800 dollars more than an ep500?

$1600

Plus shipping. Although I think it probably is a better product, Weighs twice as much but the warranty is only 3 years and It doesnt have the DSP which makes the sub "indestructable" like the 5 and 600's

PB13 = 1600 + shipping
EP500 = 1200

So, probably about $500 more. Its still a more reasonable comparison and considering the price difference and the 500 is probably reasonably competitive.

I am more curious about how the MFW15 compares to the EP350.

Has anyone actually taken delivery of the fabled MFW15?

There are quite a few people over on the AV123 forums that have gotten theirs. There are threads upon threads of folks reporting back on them.

I 'm sure the EP500 is an excellent sub but the fact that you can get 2 MFW 15 for the price of 1 EP500 has got me thinking. I hear a lot about multiple subs and how they help balance the low end in a room etc.. would'nt two MFW15 outperform a single EP500 ?

Obviously the ideal scenario is dual EP500s.. or dual EP600s, but that's not in the budget :-(

I haven't heard the MFW-15, but according to Craigsub, ONE MFW-15 outperforms ONE EP500. Now I have no clue what size of room was used for this testing. And these were not double blind tests, they are ranked against another sub (I forget which one) and that sub is the base for all other subs. If other subs out perform that sub, they get a higher ranking, if they under perform, they get a lower ranking.

No doubt the EP500 is a fine sub, and can certainly play to higher volumes than the MFW-15 (because of the 500 watt amp).

On Craig's listing he listed dual MFW-15's as equal to one PB13-Ultra for less money, So right now the MFW15 looks to be the best bang for the buck on paper. Having said that, I know it will have a different sound than Axioms subs(most subs seem to). Axioms have a somwhat unique tone to their subs, at least to my ears. They are more enveloping and seem to surround you with bass more so than any of the other subs I have listened to, including my PB13-Ultra. Is the MFW15 better? That is a judgement call YOU have to make.

Based on my experience with several of the subs on that list and group listening tests conducted, I would suggest not reading too much into that ranking. Half of the score is a subjective musical rating which lends a high degree of bias. There have been many reported inconsistencies by other listeners trying to make sense of those scores. In addition, the original thread at AVS was locked for various reasons including complaints over a possible conflict of interest with one of the sub manufactuerers/ designers.

I haven't heard the MFW-15 which looks like a good slot ported sub for the money. Slot ports are basically a hole in a box and a very cheap way of adding SPLs. However slot ported subs generate more port noise than subs with flared ports which I find annoying and makes them a non-starter for me . Simply looking at SPL and FR graphs or a subjective ranking does not tell the full story.

As for the EP subs, myself and others had the opportunity to listen to them side by side with other similar or higher priced subs recently like the Velodyne DD-18, Fathom JL113, Paradigm Servo v2 and SVS PB-13 Ultra and it compared very favourably in real world listening to DVDs and music.

The interesting thing about Craig's list is that he has in the top positions the Epik Conquest and Elemental designs a7-900. I, as well as most other people, have never heard of Epik and Elemental designs until seeing the list. They are also very reasonably priced looking at the specs. But, I can't seem to find any professional reviews of either of them. Now, the shootout that I would love to see is Velodyne DD-18 vs Fathom JL113 vs SVS PB-13 Ultra vs Epik Conquest vs Elemental designs a7-900 vs Axiom ep600 vs Axiom ep500. Maybe the Velodyne and Fathom aren't fair to be in the shootout due to their price points, so if they walked all over the competition then they could be taken out.

- Nick

Thanks John, I'm with you on the port configuration. I own a sealed 10inch sub made by Energy and I have heard many a ported sub and to me, the sealed sub sounds better. Not to say that the EP500 does not sound amazing, but port design really does make a difference. I've heard some Klipsch subs with their "corner tube ports " and I was not very impressed with the overeall sound.

Good point..

Thanks
Steph

It should be noted after I inquired about 2 MFW-15 subs, they advised shipping costs would be around $425.00. Take into account another six and a half percent in customs and duties(made in China)plus any brokerage fees shipping to Canada then they no longer were that hot a deal.

Incidentally, I checked with Epik and Elemental Designs and their products are made in the USA so they aren't subject to duties, however, because their boxes are so big and heavy, shipping costs are still high. The EP 500 is around $1200 including shipping and from Sonic Boom Audio which sells SVS in Canada, the PB13 Ultra is $1699 plus shipping. In the US it is $1599.

The MFW port is kind of flared, it has been rounded over on the edges.

Surprisingly enough when I am playing the Ep600 at decent levels theres quite a bit of port noise, Which my unscientific guess thinks is caused by the small parts of the port where the seams are which are not completely flush with the rest of the port. I thought about putting some painters tape over the seams to smooth it out but never got around to it. Its not really a chuffing sound, hard to explain really... The port is so big that it doesnt have alot of pressure coming out of it, I mean its hard to feel the wind on your hand unlike a smaller port.

That is exactly what I found. If you were willing to pick up from a UPS store in Buffalo you could probably knock off 150-200 in shipping, but you still have the duties.

Since you are in TO, shipping from Sonic boom is nothing because you can pick that sucker up. They are up near 404 and the 407.

John, a proper slot port is a lot more than a hole in the sub. It is a way to eliminate port noise by increasing port area. Both ported and sealed have their own advantages, and a well designed sub of either flavour can sound very good. At least, thats what the concensus seems to be in the DIY sub crowd.

I agree with you on the Craigsub ratings and sub comparisons in general. Unless you can do a proper side by side a/b comparison its of limited value.

Has anyone in the Axiom crowd from Toronto or south western Ontario bought an MFW15 yet? I would love to do a comparison to my EP350.

I purchased 2 MFW-15 subwoofers back in February. They were 2 for $999 and they also had a 10% off coupon you can purchase to use on the subs but then you would have to pay upfront with no refunds. I went for it and the duals cost $1222 Canadian including shipping.

The shipping time for these was really poor....i didnt receive them til the first week of June. Yellow Freight handled the delivery and called me to let me know I had to clear the subwoofers with customs before they would deliver them. I had to pay another $120 for taxes but there was no duty.

I am no subwoofer expert so I can't compare them to the EP500 but I just have to say these things POUND. Movie watching is now a different experience altogether. They sound much better to me than the local theatre does and I can feel the bass in my chest. They were well worth the wait! 2 is overkill for my theatre room but the price for 2 was too hard to pass up.

Kind of flared? Makes a big differece in how its flared and the type of flaring since it directly impacts air turbulence inside the port. In turn the amount of air turbulence creates colouration, frequency artifacts and other port noise The vortex flared ports in the EP subs are very quiet from what I've heard so I wonder if indeed there is a problem with your port.

A slot port design can be effective if its flared at both ends and all edges are rounded. Flares help by compressing air into the body of the port inside the sub and expanding it upon exit.
The problem of internal edges also needs to be addressed. It gets more expensive but the slot can be very effective if its edges are rounded and its flared. In effect flaring and rounding edges increase laminar flow causing the slot to behave much like a cylinder. Most slot ports I have seen are not rounded on all edges or have minimal rounding or flaring which makes them noisier than cylindrical ports.

By the way there is also turbulence inside the cylinder port which is another reason why vented subs will always have a characteristic bass sound compared to a sealed alignment. Its just a heck of a lot less than in an edgy slot. I've put my ear against a lot of ports. No question about the audible difference between an edgy slot and a flared cylinder port with similar area openings. Its the primary reason I have always passed on subs with slot ports.

The EP500/600 count as slot ports, though, no?

Yes, but they're flared and rounded.

No. The Axiom vents are Vortex flared ports with no edges. Halfway between a slot and a round cylinder if you will. The MFW-15 has a typical long edgy rectangular slot on the bottom of the enclosure with some rounding on the bottom opening.

wow, never realized the shape and size of the slot made such a big difference...

A second EP500 was not in my budget which is why I own dual MFW-15s. I have had them since April 12th.

The EP500 is an excellent sub. One new MFW-15 is its equal IMHO. I bought my Axioms after a conversation with Craigsub. I talked to Craigsub about the MFW-15. He said his reviewers put a single MFW-15 as an EP500 on steroids.

I was satisfied with the EP500 but I felt I needed a second sub to level out the sound in my room. Craigsub said two MFW-15s on opposite ends of my room would blow me away.

I am extremely satisfied with the new subs for HT and music.

I am sad that my EP500 sits in the corner unused.

I will use the 500 for you!

I'll make the same offer! And referring to the guy who was going to give the wood samples away, we have learned that while selling things isn't ok, giving them IS ok. I'd even pay the shipping

Why not hook up 3 subs?

No give the 500 to me! me! me! me!

Mine.
Mine.
Mine.
Mine.

I recently bought a PB13-Ultra to compare / contrast to my EP500. This is around the time Mojo was comparing an Ultra to his EP600. I'll start a new thread soon and repost some my thoughts from PM's with Mojo.