If money and space was not an issue, would there be a dramatic improvement having a third M80 as the center channel speaker over the VP150?

I have not tried it myself, Although i have the speakers to do so, But I believe it would be an improvement myself. I'm really not sure why I didnt do that to begin with in my parents theater room when I chose the speakers for that system.

Any chance you could test it out and let us know your thoughts?

I've heard it and was very impressed. However, I didn't hear a VP150 in the same environment, so I can't really speak to that.

Vertical, matching centers are pretty popular around here, so I'd say that it's probably the best way to go.

Alan Lofft has written an excellent article on center channel speakers and his conclusions have been pretty much the same as I have encountered in my experience in recent years. The horizontal speaker, like the VP150 and others(as a result of TV monitor issues AND weight) has always been a compromise and even with the same matching brand all the way around, just changing the position will often change the timbre resulting in a possible loss of the desired smooth transition of sound from left to center to right, etc.

If one has the ability to run the same full range speakers across the front(like movie theaters)and you can do M80's and you have the space, then by all means, go for it. Regardless of how you set up the crossovers, you could run the center channel full range and gain all the desired effects. Theoretically, this set-up would be the ideal. Unfortunately, in the vast majority of home theaters, space, budget and the vitally important SAF(spousal acceptance factor) wouldn't allow it.

I can do the M80 center channel, I would just have to come up w/ a creative solution for housing all my components as they were originally going to go in a console under the wall-mounted TV.

My real problem is the right surround sound speaker... I have nowhere to put it >:(

You can't wall, ceiling, or stand mount it?

Tyns,

I don’t have a M80 center yet but I usually run a phantom center with my M80s. While not exactly the same as using a discrete M80 center I think that in my room it’s a huge improvement over my VP150. It’s not even a contest. I can get away with this because I always sit in the sweet spot when listening this way. If you already own a couple of M80s you could try this and see what you think.

Another option would be to order both, keeping the one you like the most and send the other one back.

I will buy another M80 as a center for when I get a house. I’m considering placing the order now and trying it upside-down above the TV. Not sure how it will work but if I’m going to get it anyway I figure why not now.

Dean

ha, that would be interesting, I could hang it above the TV vertically and angle it downward... 18' ceilings

Which is my problem w/ ceiling mounting the right surround speaker... it's too high

That reminds me of the Axiom factory: M80s bolted to the rafters. It looks kinda funny to see such a large speaker way up there like that.

Grunt. Your comments about the M80 phantom center are interesting. I don't think I can run a phantom center with my current receiver, but I would love to try this to see how it compares to my M2 centers.

The M2s are such a dramatic improvement over just using the display's speakers for sound, it is hard to imagine that further improvement is possible.

You should be able to run a phantom center, Usually, In the menu where you select large or small speakers, You can also select None. Which is what you would choose for the center channel.

Fred, since not all HT setups include a center channel speaker, all HT receivers have to include a setting for that possibility. As Brandon points out, in the speaker setup menu you set the center speaker "none", and then the material that would have gone to the center speaker has to be sent instead to the two mains equally. When that happens those sounds that are of equal level in the mains are imaged midway between them, as if a center speaker was there, for a listener in the middle. When the listener moves to the side, the center image moves with him, but not farther out than the main speaker on that side.

Thanks gents, I'm still learning. At some point I probably would have started pushing buttons to see if/when 'phantom center' appeared on the receiver's console.

I will play this weekend to see what it sounds like. Not that I have the space to ever use an M80 for a center.

Yep, just tell your receiver you don't haved a center in the speaker setup menu, then you will be in phantom mode, as we call it.

When I'm in phantom mode I wear purple tights and a skull ring. I don't think it enhances my movie experience, though.

<---- backs away slowly

You could place the M80's spaced a bit forward from the wall-mount TV, no, so that you could get behind them to the components? I've been thinking about a vertical M22 center on a short stand in front of my DLP stand.

If I get energetic I might try using one of my surround M80's as a center
Mel N.

just get 2 stands/racks and put them on either side of the center

@ Fred

I’m very interested in what you think of using a phantom center with the M80s as they compare to your M22s. I’m about to pull the trigger on more Axioms (hedging my bets with the falling U$D) and one option I’m considering is also getting dual M22s just in case the M80s above the TV idea doesn’t work. If your dual M22s compete well with the phantom M80s as centers then I will surely get a couple to use when I need to use an actual center speaker. I’ve been interested in trying dual M22s ever since the center channel shootout posted by Mojo and Jakewash.

@ onn

If you do get energetic please post your impressions, I would like to know how you think the M80 compares to the VP150 as a center.

Dean

The closest I have come to an M80 center is dual M3s, with one above and one below the tv.

Dual M22s work very well especially one above and one below. One on either side....not so much, as the nearest speaker to the listener moves the dialogue off center while watching off axis.

The M80 vs a VP150 as a center is no contest. The M80 is much more dynamic and lively than the VP150. If I could run an M80 center or even an M60, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Since I have dual VP150 (the one below firing straight, belly-level and the one above slightly pointing downwards about a foot or so above the head), I would now tend to vote on the dispersion of dual-centers over a single M80. Sounds is still very directionnal to satisfy dialog and character movements, but evenly distributed accross all my seating positions.

How widely spaced are your L/C/R, and how far away from them do you sit?

You know, a comparison between a marching center and dual centers above and below would make an exlellent article for the Axiom newletter.

Edit: um, matching. A marching center would probably be a real dissaster.

I wasn't talking about dual 150s, there is something unique to a dual center set up, dialogue is very centered to the screen, IMO. But I still feel the M80 as a center adds more dynamic range to the whole experience and still has a wider dispersion than dual VP's, but I am going on my testing of dual VP's (a 100 and 150) compared to an M80 not dual 150s.

A question to no one in particular. If I decide to try my M80 as a center should I leave it outside of the tv stand because of the rear ports on the speaker. Would having it placed in the stand under the tv affect the sound enough to not make that option worthwhile? I really don't what to use up space in front of the tv if I don't have to. (This is for experimental purposes only, no speaker will be harmed in the proposed set-up) or I could try both options and see if there is a noticable difference. Now I'm talking to myself again.
Mel N.
Another thought besides sound differences is there a way to accurately monitor the difference?

What massive kind of a stand do you have that accomodates a 39.5" high speaker? You're not talking about laying it horizontally, are you?

Would lay it horizontal then move the tweeters to the outside. Hack and slash.
I know the best way to set-up the M80 would be to have it standing but that would be very very difficult. Would just try it horizontal to see the outcome sound wise.

Horizontal would probably not sound very good--much too long. Also, driver position plays into the sound of the speaker.

Why would you want to slice+dice an expensive floorstander like that instead of just trying a VP150 that's designed out of the box for that sort of deployment?

If you put an M80 on its side and perform surgery, you don't really still have an M80 when you're done, so you're not at all achieving the goal of matching M80 L/R mains.

Most people who can use a full-size floorstander as a center seem to be using large front projection screens mounted high.

Note that the idea that ideally having identical L/C/R speakers doesn't mean that a different center solution will suck -- there's a certain amount of diminishing returns effect here.

Conventional wisdom is that video/movies (which is what most people want a center for) mix mostly dialog into the center channel, which is concentrated in the midrange. The bass and treble extremes are much less taxed, which is one reason why you'll find a number of people who are happily using smaller, bookshelf speakers for centers, that can perhaps be inserted into a stand or placed unobtrusively in front of it - or even in front of the display on the top shelf of the stand, or on top of the display. Several happy reports of M2 centers can be found on these forums.

My plan if I ever navigate the WAF for my system is to order a VP150, an M22, and an M2 to see what works best with M80's and QS8's, and send back whichever I don't decide to keep.

I suspect you would pretty much have to rebuild the cabinet in order to change speaker position. Even after all that, you don't get one of the big benefits of a matching center: vertically aligned speakers for better off axis performance.

From what I have read here and other threads I understand that if there is a "complaint" about the VP150 (or any other center I suppose) is that it looses some of its luster when moving off-axis.
I was wondering if distance plays a factor? Being a bit of a newbie at this I am picturing the sound as coming to me in a fan, dispersing horizontally across the soundstage. In this scenario, the further back you are, the more likely you would be able to move and still get good sound.
Ok, I reread that last paragraph and it barely makes sense to me but I can't find a better way to phrase my thoughts.

Hrm, now I'm interested in the two VP150's vs. a single M80 for the center channel as well.

Now I know why my post above sounds so bad.

I meant to phrase it as a question.

Complaints was very appropriately put in quotes. It is sometimes hard to say whether or not something is a real or perceived issue.

That there is a dropoff in spl as you move off center is well established, but not whether or not it significantly affects your ability to hear what goes on in a movie, or the movie experience.

In my case, with no WAF and no significant cost difference I decided on dual M2s as a center to gain maximum theoretical advantage. I have no idea how much difference it makes.

Besides, that M2 pointing strait up over the display makes a nice phallic symbol. Mucho extra manpoints for that. If I add a mondo DIY sub I figure I qualify for the Man Card Platinum.

Ohn, you do not want to lay the m80 down, that would make no sense and defeat the whole design of the speaker. You might as well go to a VP150 which is designed for horizontal placement.