Micah and his lovely girlfriend came over to visit today to listen to the Axiom setup. Although a short visit, I had a wonderful time and just wanted to say what nice people they were. I hope you enjoyed the visit Micah, and I hope you liked what you heard.

-Steve

Is that the new Micah800?

So Micah, what was your appraisal of the M80's? What were/are you deciding between.

OH MY GOD!!!

That's the short version, and it says it all. For anyone who's ever been wowed over the internet with descriptions and pictures of Steve's HT room... let me just tell you it's much, much more impressive than you can possibly imagine. I am completely humbled and honored to have been invited into such a lovely home, with such an increadible set-up! Steve could easily charge money to give such a tour and never have to work another day in his life, it's that spectacular!

The visit was cut a little short because of a few unexpected business problems that came up for my girlfriend and I. We arrived at Steve's home a little over an hour later than we had originally planned. But there was no let down, I assure you all of that. The hour and a half that we stayed there was quite possibly the most impressive hour and a half I've ever spent anywhere! I will post pictures soon, but there's just no way on earth that they will do his HT justice. I'm in love, truely in love with the room he's built, tweeked, and labored over. Oh to be one of his lucky kids (both of whom we were delighted to meet, as well as his lovely wife). They get to enjoy the music and movies when ever they want... oh God they're going to be SOOOO spoiled when it comes to HT systems later on in life. How will their first attempt EVER hope to compare to what dad had all those years? Ha ha ha, they are truely blessed let me tell you.

So we arrive, Steve greets us at the door and we introduce ourselves. Right away I knew we were in for a treat because the further we drove into Steve's neighborhood the nicer the houses seemed to get (when we pulled into the drive way my girlfriend exclaimed, "this is his house"?)... ha ha, Steve has a great house, and the 'secondary' entertainment space in the upstairs living room has a 65 inch DLP surrounded in a beautiful wood entertainment center... yes you heard me, this is his 'SECONDARY' entertainment area. We briefly walked through the upstairs and went down into his basement, this is a kingdom any man could be locked up in and never ever wish to escape. He has a full bar, a professional poker table, and of course, what we were there to see, his home theater room.

Now when he very first opened the double doors to his room it ALMOST seemed a bit on the small side. But this was mostly due to the dark colors and dim lights when we first went inside. Once we took a seat in the front row of his theater and he turned the lights up I can honestly say it seemed absolutely perfect in size. Steve will tell you he wishes it extended back another 6 feet or so, but I certainly couldn't find anything to complain about once I got situated in there. The screen is 106 inches, absolutely amazing. And although his projector is 3 generations behind the newest stuff out there, I was completely amazed by how great it looked! And the sound... good God almighty, how do I describe it? Ok, ok before I discribe the sound of his set-up let me just say that I can only imagine maybe 1% of all home owners in the world who have as nice a set up as Steve has. Oh I'm sure there are nicer rooms with better accoustics (his room is rather squarish, which he doesn't like), but if there is a list of things you could do to Steve's room to improve it, then it must be the worlds shortest list. Even before he played anything at all I could tell I was in for a treat. As soon as he closed the door it was like putting a pair of noise cancelling headphones on. It was dead quiet in there. We started off with a few songs he wanted me to hear to show me what 'poorly' recorded music sounded like through the M80's. And I'll be honest here, I really didn't think it sounded all that bad at all. I mean it was a bit 'thin' sounding, and wasn't very dynamic at all. But it wasn't harsh or hard to listen to at all in my opinion. Then he played a song off the same CD, only recorded a little better, and the dynamics leapt completely off the charts!!! Tight bass, open sound field, floating mids, crystal clear highs... oh my, I was sitting in heaven. I brought my Tom Cochrane CD and we listened to 'All the Kings Men'... it blew me away. I used to have a very high end car stereo system that I loved to listen to that song on, and the Axioms (we were listening to it in 5.1) took that song to a completely different level that I've never heard before... it was entransing.

Next up I wanted to hear some LFE, so he put 'Finding Nemo' in and we watched the 'aquarium' sceen... MY FUCKING GOD, I have never been in a theater with a sound system as awesome as this, her finger tapping the glass shook his concrete floor, I swear to God it did! The LFE coming out of his dual EP800's (be afraid, be VERY afraid) was out of this world. He moved us to the back of his theater and played it again for us to show us how much more bass there was in the back of the room. And indeed it was noticable, but not annoying in any way, shape of form. Back to the music I also brought along some Floyd and Great White. They both sounded increadible, but Great White's 'Rock Me' took top honors. I could have been in the front row of a Great White concert, the staging was more realistic than I ever knew was even possible out of a home stereo. If I closed my eyes the speakers completely disappeared and if you would have spun me around I never would have been able to point out where the speakers were sitting. There's no other words to decribe it other than it was as if we were in the room with the musicians while they were recording the CD. I've read about this experience many times, only now do I actually understand what they're talking about though. It's a life changing experience hearing a sound system of this quality, combined with a room of this caliber. Have I mentioned I am in love?

We rounded the demo off with a little Roy Orbison on Blue Ray. And he truely saved the best till last. I won't even attempt to put this experience into words, I'm not that eloquent. Let's just say it made an impression that will stick with me. It was like nothing else I've ever sat through. I want to be Steve's new best friend. I want to have sleep overs. I want to house sit for him. I want to hit the lotto and offer him double what ever he paid for his humble abode so that I can experience that AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN (etc into infinity)...

About 20 minutes after his kids returned home I wanted to let him get back to enjoying his family (Steve does a lot of traveling), so Amy and I thanked Steve for his generous hospitality and expressed how much we appreciated experiencing his pride and joy with him like that. It's not everyday you invite a couple total strangers into your digs like that and give them the run of the place. I felt very comfortable and right at home the entire visit which is a true testament to Steve and the way he treats his friends. He must make for a fantastic neighbor.

My fears about getting the M80's, in a word - gone. In fact my excitement is now 100 times what it EVER was before. I'm in complete understanding that I have a TON of work to do to get anywhere near the sound quality out of my room as Steve got out of his room, in fact I know my room will NEVER sound quite that great. But I know what they can sound like, I'll just have to work with what I have. I do enjoy a challenge, so I'm up for it.

Thank you so much for being such a gracious host Steve, I hope some day I may be able to return the favor in some way. If not, then I'll just always remember what an impression you made on us today. I was absolutely blown away completely beyond any measure I ever could have imagined.

Be jealous everyone!!!

Sounds awesome, I'm sold, sign me up for a second 800, could you go ahead and include an invisibility cloak with that?

I'm definitely jealous. I can't wait to have a better room for my system. It'll never be ideal, but I definitely want better than what I have. I'm sure I would really enjoy experiencing Steve's system. I wish you luck with your own system.

Looking forward to more photos

Nice! You are ahead of the curve on understanding the speaker room interaction. Still, now you know what the system is capable of and have something to work towards.

Is the order in yet?

Pics are loading onto http://www.photobucket.com as we speak!

Micah,

I'm sitting here blushing right now. Thank you very much for your VERY kind words. I have to say that anyone who is on the fence about holding Axiom auditions should go ahead and do it, and if you are lucky enough to have anyone over who is half as nice as Micah, you will have a wonderful time! I told Micah that even though I don't get to come home too often, I was actually really looking forward to this audition because I love listening to music, and I also love introducing people to speakers they have not really heard before. We had a great time talking about room affects, and how even something as small as adding a riser for 2nd row seating or putting the speakers on a wood floor rather than a concrete floor will totally change the sound of the system. We also briefly mentioned Bob (Micah has been in touch with him via PMs), and both hoped he finds a sound that makes him happy.

It's kind of hard having people over and not going crazy about how you feel about Axiom. I wanted Micah to judge for himself whether or not he liked the sound. So, I wanted to start just by popping some discs in and listening. After a while, we started talking a bit about what we were hearing, and it was clear that Micah was very satisfied with the sound. In my opinion, going with a Axiom speaker also gives you that sense of security, knowing that they will always be there, and help/assistance is always a free phone call (or E-Mail, or Forum post away). The customer service is more than icing on the cake, it's one of the things that makes Axioms great.

For those on the fence about speaker finishes (there is another thread here on that), when Micah saw my speakers, he though that my speakers were wood finish. I had to tell him that I just have the basic black vinyl. The basic vinyl finishes on the Axioms are really that good (although I'd love to have high gloss rosewood for another room!)

I'd also like to mention that during this audition, we had the music pretty loud (I wanted Micah to listen to the speakers the way he would listen to them at home). I took out my SPL meter several times during the day, and we were constantly between 100 and 105 db. It was a nice test for not only the EP800s, but the Denon AVR-3806 as well. As expected, the Denon just shrugged the M80s off... I did notice some tapping on my EP800 on the left during the fishbowl scene in "Finding Nemo". My guess is it's one of the wires inside of the cabinet hitting a driver during it's excursion (we were really blasting the system, the room was literally shaking). I'm not going to open the EP800 yet since Axiom has already said they are sending new amps to the people who bought the EP800s early. When I open the speaker to replace the amp, I'll check it out. Again, knowing you have a 5 year warranty help you to not worry about these things, or rush into doing anything. You know that Axiom will make things right.

Again, I just wanted to say thank YOU Micah for coming over. I had a great time and I do look forward to seeing your system when it's all set up!

Best Regards,
Steve

PS - HEY! My screen is 126", not 106"

what was wrong with the original ep800 amps?

Oh yeah- I was always jealous of your HT room but now I REALLY am. I just hope to somehow manage to find a house in our budget that has a room big enough to fit a HT room in... most houses here don't have basements in oklahoma because the soil doesn't really allow it. There are several old homes with leaky basements though!

I'm jealous, I didn't get to come over when I was in Indy last year. Just kidding, I don't like inviting myself, and I know Steve is a busy guy, but he did give me great ideas on where to eat....

Nothing major. Some of them thump when you turn them off and require a 10-15 second reset period. They supposedly fixed this by adding a capacitor and changing the firmware.

Sounds like a fantastic time and it makes me want to travel out to the midwest to hear Steve's system!

Thanks for sharing guys! What could be a better showroom floor for Axiom other than owners spanning the continent willing to give auditions?



Steve, you know we all expect fancy invitations to your HT now?

Axiomfest at Steve's this summer?

I'm sure he still has the big tent.

Does that mean he'll be happy to see us?

Mica, thanks for the great description of your experience of Steve's remarkable HT! Steve, thanks for creating the opportunity for us all to share in a virtual seat in your HT. :o) Glad to hear all this wonderful sound was powered by 3800 series Denon. Nice to know mega buck separates are not required for an awesome audio experience.

Having just ordered both the 60's and 80's to A/B them, with this description, I may cancel the M60's. :o) I still hope to have a local M80 owner offer a listen though.

Micah, were you only looking at the M80's, or were you considering another Axiom or other brand? Curious of your buying decision and what you had looked at.
Thanks for such a detailed description. It was very informative and painted a good picture of your experience.
What did you say Steve's address was again?

Steve, what are you using for sides and backs? QS8's?

Er... ok I'm new at this so here goes trying to post up some pics. The first attempt here is a look at Steve's house. In his drive is his white car, and our black Expidition...

[img]
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/Outlawbiker71/1.jpg?t=1236499718[/img]

Here we see Steve throwing in something that is sure to knock my socks off...

[img]
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/Outlawbiker71/9.jpg?t=1236499873[/img]

Here Steve sits watching 'Nemo' while Amy and I sit in back enjoying the view...

[img]
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/Outlawbiker71/8.jpg?t=1236499986[/img]

Another angle of the same...

[img]
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/Outlawbiker71/6.jpg?t=1236500078[/img]

Steve and I take a brief time out for some refreshments...

[img]
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/Outlawbiker71/3.jpg?t=1236500176[/img]

Amy and Steve drunk on Absinth...

[img]
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/Outlawbiker71/4.jpg?t=1236500262[/img]

And now we say goodbye to our gracious host. It was fun, I'll definately be back for this Axiomite party everyone's talking about!!!

[img]
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/Outlawbiker71/2.jpg?t=1236500416[/img]

[img]
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/Outlawbiker71/2.jpg?t=1236500416[/img]

Hmmmm.... yeah that didn't work out for me so well

[img]
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/Outlawbiker71/1.jpg?t=1236499718 [/img]

Yep, QS8's all around. The sides are a little further back than the 1st row, and the rears are on the back wall about 1 ft back from the 2nd row. This is where I wish I had about another 3-6 ft of room. I would have liked to have the rears a bit further back.

VERY COOL!

Steve's home looks lovely.

His theater room looks even better (room envy........AGAIN! )

But the single best thing about this little GTG (Get ToGether), is that you guys seemed to hit it off. I've attended several audio GTGs with as many as 60 people in attendance and, fun and informative as they are, the absolute best part is always the people.




So glad that a good time was had by all.

I agree totally Jack! Are you in the picture above?

I believe Jack is the guy in the blue shirt hiding in the back/center.

I just noticed the small collection of cowboy boots on top of the wall units!

To say the least!
Even without the incredible HT Steve's home is a dream. The movie theater is just icing on top of one inch thick icing!

Steve,
Your thoughts on 'how far back' for the rear QS8's would be much appreciated. My room is 31'L x 23'W (includes kitchen in left rear, dining room in right rear). I want to pick a compromise between best distance back of listening position while trying not to go to far into the kitchen/dining room areas (my wife does not want to be blasted when she is not really watching, but is hanging out in the kitch. or din. room. So what would you estimate to be a first choice distance back? In my room, more than 7' back starts to encroach into 'her space'. ;o)

Here's a room diagram (ignore SBL/SBR shown on back wall.. old thinking). :o) And room photos with a QS8 mock up shown at 4' back of primary listening position.





Thanks for any thoughts.

Oh and to address a few earlier questions, my search for high end audio was actually rather short lived. You see after the fire I thought I was going to go with a complete Cambridge Soundworks set-up. But when they no longer offered the $2000 dollar power towers I'd been wanting to upgrade to all those years, I started searching for something else in the $2000 dollar range. Paradigm was the 1st company I really researched at any great length. Then I found Axiom when searching for subwoofers.

And I really liked what I saw and heard about all the Axiom products so from that moment forward I was gung-ho about a 100% Axiom HT system... until Bob's thread came up. Hearing about a person who was as disappointed in his purchase as Bob was, along with all the poor comments I read on the Salk forum really made me second guess whether or not spending $4000 dollars on speakers I've never even heard before was a wise choice. I didn't run out and search for another brand at that point, because Steve quickly picked up the ball and offered a demo at his place.

So I figured I'd wait to make my decision until I heard the speakers (he has every speaker I'm getting) first hand. Well I no longer have any hesitation or desire to search out a different brand. I'm not here to say Bob was wrong, I'm a staunch believer in 'to each his own'. All I'm here to say is that I love the M80's/EP800/QS8's & VP150 combo. If they are bright then I like bright. They will no doubt be 'brighter' yet in my living room, but I have no fear that I won't like them. My mind is made up.

So now it's order time. But my girlfriend & I depart on a 9 day trip to Rome/Venace & Florence on the 12th, so I'm going to wait until we get back from our trip to put my order in.


You never know, I may just NEED that $4000 dollars while we're there!

Mica's post republished with the working links. Micah - FYI, the only thing you had wrong is that the img link has to all be in one continuous line between the tags, and each img link has to end with the ".jpg" part. The rest of the link, starting with the question mark, just needs to be deleted before posting.

Jason

===============



Here we see Steve throwing in something that is sure to knock my socks off...



Here Steve sits watching 'Nemo' while Amy and I sit in back enjoying the view...



Another angle of the same...



Steve and I take a brief time out for some refreshments...



Amy and Steve drunk on Absinth...



And now we say goodbye to our gracious host. It was fun, I'll definately be back for this Axiomite party everyone's talking about!!!

Steve, I've experienced this as well and according to Ian it's something that needs to be tweaked with the timing algorithm in the DSP. I believe what you are hearing is actually the driver "bottoming out" not conflicting with the wires inside or any other obstruction.

You only notice it at very high volumes and on scenes with extreme bass ("The Pulse" server room scene will bring it out quite clearly). It's quite rare to hear this because it requires a combination of very high volume and very deep bass, but it sounds like they're working this in future code revisions as well. Even if they don't it's not that big of a deal to me, but it is on the Axiom radar from what I understand.

Jason

Jason,

Thanks for the updated links, as well as your input! We were playing "Finding Nemo's" Fishbowl scene at about 100 db, so I guess that would cause the perceived rattle.

I am sure the replacement amp will fix this with no problems.

Very nice writeup and pictures fellas, Steve that is an extremely nice place you have ... congrats

Micah,
I'll agree, you do appear to be a 'bright' guy. ;o)
Thanks for adding your journey to Axioms. I too was originally looking at Paradigm (Studios), and feel very glad to have ordered my Axioms two days ago. If you plan on buying new, then ordering after you return sounds fine. But if you order Factory Outlets to save 10% over the 5% multi speaker discount, you might want to consider ordering now. That way part of your (painful) 4-5 wk wait time will be in Europe. Pretty sure speakers won't pop into your mind much there! AFTER I finally ordered mine, I realized I could have ordered a week or so prior and could probably have called in any minor decision change on color or to change a pair to a diff. model. Doouh! Oh well, I'm in the queue now.

Have a fun trip.
PS. $4,000 us won't buy much more than a gondola ride with the exchange rate these days, so don't worry about needing th e$4k over there. Unless, of course, you might, well, stay! ;o)

Dave,

VERY detailed drawing! I would say that your original position for the rears was too far back. If you can place them about where the fridge is located, and angle them down, you will get a nice rear effect. Your wife will not be blasted at this location, and it's closer to the perfect oval setup.

BTW. To make it better, try to bringing the fronts a bit more forward. 1 ft or so. Think of trying to make an oval from the primary listening position, elongated top to bottom.

Beautifull HT Steve, sounds like you guys had a lot of fun. I'm wondering what was going through your head(second photo) as you were loading the DVD.

You should have put on a dark suite, a cigarette and in a Rod Serling voice.....

"You're travelling through another dimension, a dimension of not only sight and sound......The Axiom Zone"

Doo-da-doo-doo...doo-da-doo-doo....

lovely home Steve..I also noticed the lack of snow...we are still waiting to feel the effects of global warming up here in Canada.

No snow in S. Ontario, the rain/mild weather washed the remainder away over the last week...but too early to declare spring, it's ringing the doorbell though.

Steve,
Are you thinking that the long, wider ends of the oval would be the front speakers at one end and backs at the other, with the sides being the 'compressed' smaller dimension of the oval? Or the opposite.

I guess I need to change more on that drawing than I recall. :o) Dean had suggested as you say, moving the fronts forward and centering the left between the shelf and the TV. Moving the RF to a symmetrical position leaves both about 20" from TV. Depending on the WAF, if a little wider does not incur a negative affect from the LF being nearer the nick knack shelf, I can experiment with that. Room/sound stage center[SSC] (just left of primary list. pos.) is pretty close to 12' from both (1' forward) fronts as well as the SL & SR. So the forward part of the sound field is close to a semi circle.

Position A: If I placed the backs 7'straight back from the (front) room/SSC point this would put the QS8's in line with the right 1/3 of the fridge. This diagonal measurement to the SSC would be ≈ 9'. Back of room sound for the BWF (blasting wife factor), would be over part of the dining room table (not so good). Tilting it down would further point he sound towards that unfavorable BWF area.

Position B: If I placed the backs 6'straight back from the (front) room/SSC point this would put the QS8's in line with just behind the end of the counter. This location would be visually closer to an imaginary point between kitch./d. room ant he living room portion of the room, which I think would 'look' better. But would this placement be 'less good' enough to move back to a 'maybe less nice looking place'? The diagonal measurement to the SSC would be ≈ 8'(assuming 12' apart. less if moved closer to center). Back of room sound for the BWF (blasting wife factor), would be less intrusive. Tilting QS8's down would still negatively impact the BWF area. Also, pointing QS8's down would complicate my plan to be able to reach up and swivel the 8's toward the back of the room for 7.1 music listening for parties, when most hang out in the kitchen and dining room. Or for me when working at my desk, for that matter (DAF, Dave approval factor... I want an acronym too! ;o)

I cannot quote any data to support this, but I thought the quad polars, did not matter much if any for pointing down vs. straight forward. Am I mistaken?

As you can tell, I always er on the side of TMI (to much information. Basically, I'm wondering if (B) would be much of a SQ compromise? Also, with backs 12' apart, they would be more than the fronts ≈ 9'-10' apart. I'd guess with QS8's that would not matter much.

If you made it through this far, thanks for stickin' in there!

PS. Sorry to poach here and distract from the joy of Micah and Girlfriend's Excellent Adventure at Steve's iMax Theater/Bar and Grill/Poker Room. But I was too tempted to tap a pro for HT advice. (Micah, how'd Steve ever get you guys to leave! ;o)

I think you're over thinking it... Something simple like this should be just fine.

yeah... just a couple of pairs up there eh?

Very cool (long) report.

(and i thought i typed alot).

Steve, who told you my middle name? I do suffer from 'there must be perfect answer syndrome' more than is helpful.

Thanks for your ideas.

Yep, Dat's me. Blue shirt, glasses, arms folded, next to the guy in the beret.

LOL! That GTG was at Craigsub's (Craig Chase's) house. His lovely wife (and his 3 children) all ride. The entire family spends two weeks at a ranch (not your typical "dude" ranch) in Wyoming each summer. So, their great room has a decidedly Western theme.

The second photo is in Craig's basement room which is absolutely the best listening room I've ever been in. It is all underground so behind the walls is nothing but dirt. I believe Craig said the walls are also insulated. Regardless, it is a very dead room without being excessively anechoic. You can get a very good idea of how a given speaker really sounds and music just sounds incredible down there.

The guy seated to the left on the sofa (legs crossed) is my very good friend and fellow Axiom forum member Ray3.

Apologies to all the old regulars who probably (and justifiably) feel they've seen this photo too many times. (Photoshop work by Pmbuko)

I recognized Ray as well.

The whole post was excellent but, if I may, I'd like to address the part I've highlighted in blue.

It's good to see that you've learned that opinions about speakers are no more than that - opinions. If one looks hard enough, one can find user opinions, about any speaker, ranging from raves to "they're crap." You can just about always throw out the really horrible ones as well as the fanatically positive ones that make it sound like the speakers will cure herpes and make you look like Brad Pitt. It's likely the truth lies somewhere in between.

One would be wise to also discount the opinions that start out "I've never really heard them but........," for they are merely hearsay and we've already established that one can easily find a wide range of opinions about any speaker. Because somebody heard someone say something doesn't make it factual.

Lastly, I can guarantee that, at some point, you'll find yourself thinking something akin to "OMG! That sounds a little harsh ." At that moment you'll likely think of Bob and start to wonder if he was right. Just remember that a good speaker will accurately reproduce what it is fed. I've never owned speakers, any speaker, that, depending on the source (most often with poorly recorded CDs and some concerts/movies on TV), didn't, occasionally, sound harsh. Garbage in - garbage out. The room itself (dimensions, surfaces, furnishings) can also be a factor. If a given speaker is truly harsh, it will always sound harsh regardless what you feed it or where it is located.

Rome? Venice? Florence? I think I hate you.

I think my wife hates him.

Haha, well Steve is an incredibly nice guy, he never once hinted that it was time for us to leave or anything of that nature (hell they even offered us to join them for lunch as we were leaving). But you see Steve doesn't get home much, so I realized time with his family is very precious. Therefore there was no way I was going to stay there any longer than what we had originally discussed, I didn't want to impose on his quality time any more than I had to. Now say he and his wife and kids were to have fallen ill with some mysterious sickness while we were there then sure, I would have definately voluntereed to stay and nurse them back to good health over the next couple of years... but that wasn't the case (darn it)!

Lol, ok all kidding aside... I wanted to briefly discuss some interesting aspects of Steve's system. Like he pointed out before while we were listening to the music/movies we were listening to it at 100+ db's for most of the audition. But had Steve not had an SPL meter right in front of my face I may not have believed it! This isn't a knock on his set-up or his room in any way mind you, it's just that the music was so clean and free of any distortion what-so-ever that the volume was very deceiving. The only time I would really notice how loud it actually was, was when I would start to mention something to Steve and I couldn't hear myself talk even though I was practically screaming at him!!!

The music played flat as a ruler across the entire bandwidth spectrum. The transition from M80 to EP800 was completely seamless. He could have hidden the 800's and told me that all the sound was coming out of the M80's and I would never have been able to tell otherwise. I had him play 'All the Kings Men' on purpose because it's a full range song that really tests speaker systems to the max and will point out what ever weak links you might have... the Axioms breezed throught that song without ever breaking a sweat, I was damn impressed! Now keep in mind Steve explained to me that his EP800's were not turned up all that much. He has his system tuned very musically, and it shined in that catagory. There was nothing over powering at all in any aspect of the delivery. The bass was very tight and authoritive, without drowning out the mids and highs. Same with the tweeters, they delivered the highs without ever SCREAMING at you. I could see where some people might come out of that demo not being tremendously impressed with the fact that he had $4000 dollars worth of subwoofers performing in there. But if you wanted more bass, it's definately availible. It's just that Steve isn't a 'bass head', he prefers his music to be accurate, and I can't imagine it being anymore accurate than what he has now.

He also demonstrated Audessey, and we both agreed that his normal settings (we were listening in 5.1) sounded much better than when Audessey was running things. Audessey seemed to muffle the music somehow, kinda hard to explain. But when he turned it back normal the sound field opened up a lot more... I wasn't too keen on the Audessey. Maybe in some systems it would improve things, but certainly not in Steve's case.

I'm trying to picture you sitting there waiting for the music to begin, ruler 'at the ready'.

Even in a less-than-ideal room, you can tell that these speakers play very clean. I would love to listen to an EP800.

Dave, I hope you're not hoping for an experience like that when you listen to my M80s!

No, Ken, he's looking for an even BETTER experience...not to put any pressure on you or anything.

You might generally have more trouble with room tuning in a big empty room without a lot of furniture. I have my system integrated into a larger apartment room with a lot of stuff everywhere. (couch, recliner, blankets, rug, etc.) I've almost never heard "too harsh." (unless you want to put in a really old movie and crank that up)

It's amazing what the difference is between a properly powered speaker like the m80 is at high volumes and other systems not built for full volumes. Like say turning your tv speakers up to max, blech... our neighbor does this. Also lots of restaurants that play music by turning up boom box speakers really loud, ouch.

It seems like often the parts of the higher volumes you can't stand are the distortion, the clipping, case rattle and overall shrillness. On the flip side, if your amp and rig can keep up with big dynamic changes.. wow. I find movies have the power to startle me more now. Jumping from dialogue to full explosions or a window shattering, etc. It's pretty amazing.

Haha, I never thought of it that way... Steve has really raised the bar on GTG's hasn't he. From here on out whenever someone invites a guest over to hear Axiom's for the first time, there's going to be a lot of expectations to meet after reading about my trip to Steve's Axiom kingdom!!!

Ah it's no big deal really. I mean besides the $7000 dollars worth of Axiom speakers he has, he probably only has like $15 - $20,000 dollars wrapped up in his room. No pressure.

JC told me that the amplifier in my replacement is updated to fix this issue. The thump is still there when switching off, and he said that I'll still get another amplifier once they've resolved that to their satisfaction.

That's good to know CV, thanks for the info. I heard it will still be several weeks before we get the replacement amps.

Steve (or Micah),
What was Steve powering his system with? If a single AVR, which? Or what combo of AVR or pre/pro with added separates.

Thanks,
PS. Steve, has your wife been calling you saying Axiomites keep showing up on your doorstep?

WHAAAAAT! I was hoping M80's were magical and transformed any listening environment, even if powered 30 year old 25w Heathkit amp. Say it is so!



Adrian, come on now, Ken is very generously volunteering his time to help out (a soon to be) fellow Axiomite. I will certainly 'settle' for a roughly similar audio experience that Micah had at Steve's. So Ken, no pressure at all, no worries, I am keeping my expectations realistic...

Seriously though, since I am considering upgrading from my 1909, I am very curious what level of AVR teams with the given Axiom to create the given SQ. I'd LOVE to think (dream?) Steve had a 2808 to create such SQ at 100dB. Of course if he had a 1909 , that would be best. LOL If he had a 3808, that would still be good to hear. Any AVR or pre/pro with a stack of separates... Say it ain't so, Steve, say it ain't so!

Subject: It's all about me (now that we are clear on that...;o)

I know 'properly powered' is not a black and white answer. But this is the crux of what I am trying to discern in my consideration of if and how many dollars, required to invest (level of AVR) to get a similar sound as Micah heard at Steve's. I fully understand, the power Steve is supplying may well be way out of my affordability to performance ratio (damned separates!!).

It is, of course, a very subjective judgment. But being that Micah has described, to my limited knowledge, a very good SQ experience, I'd love to hear others describe how they feel their AVR to SQ compares to what Micah has described. Just for the sake of this discussion, if you'll allow, the scale would be, Micah's description as, say a '10' and say the cheapest/oldest 5.1 AVR as a '1'. Also, for my selfish purposes, if we could limit this AVR level discussion to powering M80's or M60's (including 5.1/7.1 with 2/4 QS8's would be helpful too). Also include the room size your evaluation relates too. For (all about) me, relating to room size of 31x23, 6,000 sq' would be much appreciated. I don't know if it will be easy to separate attachment to our own set ups, in trying to be as objective in our subjective judgments, but that would be the goal.

Again, this is a totally selfish request for information! But there may be one or two other 'learners' who would benefit from a discussion of AVR level to SQ. Of course, that would be tertiary to my own selfishness... but whatever.

I guess, hoping not to color the opinions but to be more specific, my actual (selfish) question is: Your opinion of where on the 1-10 scale desribed would the 1909, 2809, 3808 rank, given MY conditions.

PS. I am fully ready to be bombarded with reply starting out: "Dave, Dave, Dave... "

If it helps Dave, I had my old Denon 1804(90W/ch) running the M80s upto ~100db in my room, the 3808 now can hit about 103 and still sound clean depending on the source material of course.

I was using my Denon AVR-3806. 120W/Channel Receiver.

Steve,
RIGHT ANSWER ! ! Very glad to hear it for the 380x series! woo hoo!
My 'BUY' finger is getting VERY anxious now.

Dave, relax; there's no such thing in reality as a ranking of receivers with respect to sound quality. Buy receivers for features and it's speakers that you buy for sound quality.

The greatest impact on sound quality will be your speakers, room acoustics/placement and the quality of the recording the speakers are reproducing.

The most noticable way receivers can affect sound quality is through the use of tone controls or running the amp past its power requirements which introduces distortion or "clipping" (not a good thing).

If two different receivers are level matched, tone controls bypassed and neither is introduced into clipping, the differences would be very subtle as compared to listening to 2 different sets of speakers, or the same pair of speakers placed in different rooms.

davekro, don't listen to them. My homing Pigeon just returned from the volcano. The Deaf Monk has confirmed that the unique sound of a Denon AVR is more pleasing to the ear than any other AVR.

Haha! Charles...how does the DEAF monk know which one SOUNDS best! Beethoven?

You're focusing on the wrong part it is the MONK which provides the ultimate proof. But I do believe there was a translation error from the ancient Sumerian, it should have been, "...is more pleasing to the soul...", not ear.

Haven't you heard? The Deaf Monk is currently living in a bIg RiG on top of the volcano training his newest audiopile prodigy bbigwyres. REFLECT!

Good point - his handwriting is shit so I'm just guessing at most of it.
Hmmm? Perhaps I should have checked closer before I bought all the Enron stock I thought he told me to get.

I thought BoB/007 was the Monk's understudy?

I can't help myself...as soon as I read that I though of this.

Nice.

Are you sure he's not living in a van down by the river?

No. The high gloss fold out that came with my levitating speaker wire clearly said volcano! End of discussion.

bbigwyres was set on bringing his big rig up to axiomoe until he read the Deaf Monk's research on levitating speaker wire and its impact on reducing surface noise on the vinyl format.

He has now given up all his worldly possesions (besides the big rig and record player) devoting his life to the Deaf Monk.

That is awesome Murph!....BIG LOOOOOOOL

If he's in Chris Farley's van, that's got to be quite, well oderous, since Chris passed away in several years ago. Bless his soul.

Chris Farley isn't gone, he and Elvis run a bed and breakfast up near Blind River.

Which one of them cooks? Either way, I think you're screwed.

Hmmmn, I wonder whose bigger and If Elvis shares his 'scripts with Chris?

On the menu this week, Fried Bananas with Peanut Butter on Rye.

I had to have it coming with all the threads I've Hijacked!

BAHAHAHAHA HAHA ha HAHA hâ ha ha ha.... Don't believe a word of this incredible lie Dave! Oh sure the 3806 was all I could SEE... but rest assured Steve most CERTAINLY had an army of Macintosh audiophile grade amplifiers behind his false wall in a separate air conditioned room driving his system, of
that I'm sure! My guess is somewhere in the neighborhood of 450 - 500 watts per DRIVER! And with 2 M80's & 4 QS8's, we're looking at 14,000 (the EP800 is self powered) watts of premium power pushing his ass-kicking system! As soon as I get back from Italy I plan on hiding out in Steve's bushes until the whole family is gone and then I'm going to break in and uncover the truth Geraldo Rivera style baby!!!

In the meantime Dave... start saving your pennies bro!

I wonder why it is so hard to find people to offer demos??

But seriously, does "Geralda Rivera style" mean you don't expect to find anything once you break through Steve's wall, or that you will televise on live TV the secret location of the amps, after promising Steve not to disclose same in exchange for access to the HT?

Zimm,
'Crack baby' might be sharing with Micah... on the 'Geraldo Live' part, but you may be right. I could see Steve wanting to keep an 'understated' stance with his HT. I concur he likely does have an 18' x 20' air conditioned server type room filled with racks of the most current highest end Macintosh amps. How kind of heart to let me believe I too could have that quality of sound from an... "Oh, this old thing" mere mortal quality of amp.

Steve's kindness is amazing.

(Micah, did you happen to notice he had 'three' garage doors, but only two of them actually opened? When you go 'back in', let us know what you find triggers the secret wall to open up.)

Nothing to see in there... Just dead headless bodies.

Who else needs an audition?

Seriously, it was a lot of fun having Micah and Amy over. If I were home more often I would gladly give more auditions to anyone in the Indy area.

Micah,

When are your speakers scheduled to be delivered? I am dying to know how they sound in your setup!

PS - There's a better shot of the front of the house here (from me):

http://www.roomzaar.com/rate-my-space/HomeExterior/Our-Home-After-Lighting/detail.esi?oid=6544865

And the back under construction (from my wife):

http://www.roomzaar.com/rate-my-space/Patios/Back-Yard-for-all/detail.esi?oid=6541534

-Steve

Steve,

Very nice shots of your beautiful home.

So 'How Conveeeeeenient' that your last visitors (supposedly) left the country after being to your home. Gee, no one has (actually) heard or seen from Micah or his GF for many months now... Their "Emails" say they decided on an extended stay in Europe...
Boy, you are good, Steve. (or should we call you Sweeney Todd...)