I'm starting my search for a new reciever, probably going to buy late summer or early fall. I'm looking at something in the $500 range, and I want it to be something I'm gonna keep through a few upgrades, hopefully. I want something with preamp outs, and an adjustable sub crossover that goes to preferably 60hz. I would also like dts discrete and component video switching, but they are not as important, just would be nice. I liked the outlaw 1050, but it doesn't have a digital out, or dts es, so it's not perfect. Also, the nad T752, which is pretty good, but a little out of my price range. Anybody know of any recievers in this price range that would fit the discription? I'd be willig to go used, so if it's last year's model (wouldn't have dts es discret, but it would be ok if the price was right) that's ok too. Thanks for any advice

The Outlaw 1050 is out of date.

The NAD is great but a bit more expensive than, say, the Denon 1803, which is a full 6.1, is extremely reliable and inexpensive.

You won't have adjustable crossover, but you don't need it. 80hz is usually everyone's favorite setting. It's not worth spending more money to cross over at 60 instead of 80. Spend your money on more power.

I just got an H/K AVR525 from http://www.onecall.com (refurbished) for around $500. Since it retails at $900, it's a damn good deal. It's got the sub crossover, DD ES, DTS EX, pre-outs, 7.1, etc. The remote sucks, but other than that, it's pretty cool. Worth looking into, at least. Hint: it sounds way, way better (even with 2 channel) with Dolby Pro Logic II Music turned on for CDs. Just opens it all up.

Hi,

kcarlile is right. The DLPII mode is excellent on the AVR525, which I also use. Its component-video switching is also compatible with HDTV wideband, and it has Logic7 music and movie modes that occasionally are preferable.

I don't find its remote that bad; I like the way it automatically searched for correct codes for my other gear instead of having to do that tedious mating and teaching of codes. And its built-in auto level-adjustment, while not all that accurate, is reasonably useful for neophytes. Plus it will drive 4-ohm M80s without difficulty and it sounds as good as any amplifiers I've got around my place.

Regards,

Wow, that's quite a deal, I've heard about h/k reliability issues in the past, and I guess they've pretty much fixed that. I just checked onecall, and they don't have that model refurb anymore, but I'm not buying for a little while, so I'll keep my eyes open. Also, does anyone know if the AVR 325 have the same adjustable crossover? Right now I'm just making a list of what to listen to/look for. Thanks for the advice, anyone else?

Yes, the 325 has the adjustable crossover, but it really seems to me that you're giving that feature too much weight. As Ravi pointed out, the common 80hz crossover works well in most cases. The situations where it doesn't work well would be with tiny main speakers with very poor bass extension which would call for a higher, not lower, crossover above 100hz.

In the case of such poorly extended low end speakers, you could also leave the receiver settings for those tiny main speakers as 'large' (since their low end would not get very far anyway) and then use the subwoofer crossover to find integration above the 80Hz level.

well, right now, I've got a yamaha reciever, and a HSU VTF2. The crossover is set at 90hz and I feel it's too high. When I had it set up just 2 channel previously, while I was upgrading my speakers, the sub sounded better when I had the internal crossover set around 70-60hz, it seems to me that my mains are better in the 100-70ish hz range than the sub and it lets the sub concentrate on the lower frequencies. Right now I'm using Paradigm Studio 20s for mains, and a studio center, and some jbl S26s for surrounds, so it's not that I need a higher crossoever, but they all have a f3 bottom end at different places, so I can't really just use the internal crossover on the sub.

Chess, that's feasible of course, but the little speaker and the receiver would still be "trying" to do the low and mid-bass. Rolling it off at say, 120hz would take part of the load off both the speakers and the receiver and should result in a bit cleaner sound. Farther down the bass scale the same principle applies to much larger main speakers; a good sub, properly set up, should do a better job, even in the 40-80hz octave, than those large speakers, which should be set "small" despite their size. Deja Vu.

My main problem with the remote is that it switches to the component configuration when you press the input button. For example, when I press DVD, the remote switches to the DVD command set. This wouldn't be bad, but the play, ff, rev, etc buttons are all on the very bottom of the remote, making it difficult to hold with one hand and press the buttons. Also, my CD player doesn't have a remote, so it's annoying to have to press the AVR button to get back to volume adjustment, etc. In addition, I really, really like my Tivo remote, so I'm a bit spoiled. It's one of the best remote designs I've come across. I wish they would make a universal, programmable, too ;-)

JohnK,
I don't believe that a good receiver would need to have any 'load taken off'. It should perform equally as well driving a tiny pair of mains set to large or small.
But here's where you and I continue to part ways in opinion.

In reply to:

---

a good sub, properly set up, should do a better job, even in the 40-80hz octave, than those large speakers, which should be set "small" despite their size..

---

To say that the sub vs. large mains will automatically be 'better' is a stretch.
A subwoofer, with its rather large driver(8"+), does not produce the same bass sounds as a smaller, lets say 6" driver. Although i do agree that the larger driver can certainly play the lower bass range at a louder volume using less power, this does not mean the sound produced by a sub is any better than large mains.
I for one, as you know, do not like the heavy sound from my EP350 and much prefer the sound of the M60 for the entire sound range especially for music. My sub is reserved for HT applications and the extreme low end frequencies, less than 50Hz or so, during music playback.
Perhaps if my receiver had a crossover at 50Hz (or less), i would set my mains to small and go the setup route often suggested. Until i have a receiver with such a capability, the downward frequency curve of the M60 can be matched pretty well using the internal sub crossover around the 40-50Hz mark.
Just taking a look recently at the frequency measurements for the M80s (best comparison), it appears that my ears have heard what the graphs say, that the M60/M80 start to drop off at the 50Hz level. Therefore this is about the best place to put a crossover for the sub if these speakers are to be set to 'large' within the receiver.

I also recently purchased one of these and I love it. While it's a bit more than you want to spend, an authorized H/K dealer, J&R Music World (http://www.jrmusicworld.com) sells the AVR525 for roughly $650 (give or take a little) and 6th Avenue Electronics (http://www.6ave.com) sells it for $633. I'm pretty sure (but not certain) they are also an authorized HK dealer.