I am interested in the epic grand master 500 set up and am wondering how much I am losing going to the m22 speakers over the m60. My girlfriend is keen on having the speakers on the wall and I am having a tough time convincing her otherwise. Is there a large difference in sound quality between the 2 sets? Will I be disapointed that I didnt get the m60? I guess thats a pretty subjective question but any thoughts will help. thanks for any feedback

I own both and, other than the M60s having a bit more bottom end and the ability to play louder, there is not a significant difference in the sound quality. With a sub, you really won't be missing much.

Having said that, the reason that I own both is because I bought the M22s, and immediately started wondering how much better the M60s were. Now that I have the 60s, I'm pining for the 80s. It's a disease for which money is the cure.

Have you considered getting a different girlfriend?

Just kidding of course. Having never heard a set of M60's all I can comment on are the tremendous abilities of the M80's & how I can't imagine a wall hanging speaker beng able to match the sonic signature of the tower speakers.Axiom produces. Still many people love and enjoy their M22's. So I guess it depends on what you're used to?

I have an XQ kef set up right now in my upstairs... this will be for my theatre room downstairs.

I have M22s and M80s. When I compared them side-by-side the differences I noticed were all with music. I did not sense much changes when trying with movies. If you go (as your post suggests) with an EP500 (same as me), I am pretty sure you will be very happy with M22s. I have my M22s mounted on a wall and they work their magic just fine!

thanks very much for the info... I am within a day of ordering... pretty excited

Just to be clear... are you talking W22s or M22s?

The M22s have a rear port and shouldn't be hung on the wall unless you're using a bracket that will enable them to stand out from the wall some....

Peter reported that the full metal brackets helped the bass with his M22s.

How big is the room?

I know I sound like a broken record, but for under 2400 sq feet Axiom stated to me the 22 was more than enough, paired with a good sub.

I'm amazed no one asked that yet.

I also goofed, that should be 2400 cubic feet


2400 square feet and you as well buy a quartet of M80's

Yeah, I was thinking, "damn if M22's fill 2400 square feet with music, I wonder what my M80's will fill"?

Any word yet on W60s/W80s, anyone?

the room is about 2550 cubic feet.

I am also debating which receiver I should use with these. I can buy all onkyo at dealer cost but am open to any suggestions. I have with my existing system an onkyo 906 but even with the feet off it wont fit in the desired location... so I need something smaller that will still sound good with these speakers.

I think as close to W60s and W80s as we're going to get are the T80s. But again, they're really, really deep.

You said you were a day away from ordering... What did you decide to go with?

Steve, welcome. You haven't given any details about this "desired location" downstairs for the new receiver, but it doesn't seem to be a good idea to be looking for a smaller receiver rather than looking for enough room for the receiver that you want. It also wouldn't seem to be wise to consider removing the feet to save 1/2" or so if this results in blocking the ventilation slots on the bottom.

The Axioms that you'll get will sound good with any receiver in the category that you're considering and a few watts one way or the other are meaningless. If you're still going to insist on a smaller receiver it can be mentioned that the Denon 4310 is smaller and lighter(about 1" lower and 34 vs 54 lbs)than the 906.

My concerns are that if your current receiver won't fit in the desired location with the feet removed, buying a slim unit isn't your answer. Because given that amount of space you'll just burn up whatever model you try to stuff in that area. You need at least a few inches above and to the sides of your receiver to properly ventilate it. And it doesn't sound like you are anywhere near that.

It's much more important to integrate a worthy unit into your system and give it room to breathe than to force something to fit all nice and neatly into some square somewhere. A little extra effort to accomodate a bigger receiver will pay dividends in the future.

Sorry guys... the location is my basement which has built in cabinets and such which I was hoping to store all the audio equipment. I have a remote screen for my VPLHW10 SXRD projector which drops down in front of my cabinets which houses an ln46a650. thus if I can fit everything in the cabinets when the screen is down it will hide everything. So that is my problem. I want a good receiver but am lacking space... I have a 607 that seems to fit ok (still a little tight) but is this enought power at 100w/7? P.S. the room is about 2550 cubic feet and the front row of chairs is about 12 feet from the mains and the back row about 17 feet. let me know if there is anything else you need to know. I am going to go with the epic grand master 500 I think. The reason I say Im a day away is I just have to convince my girlfriend that orb audio is not the way to go... so any amo would be helpful...

Who wears the pants in this relationship?

Ba hahahaha hahaha ha hahaha.... I'm kidding. Well have you considered separates? You could stick a slim preamp in there, they don't require the ventilation space because there aren't any amps creating heat in them. Then hide an amplifier somewhere else? Or does this defeat the whole purpose???

Ha ha, Orb... I too recall seeing the website for Orb pop up when I was looking around for new speakers. They looked sort of interesting I must admit, but after finding and buying honest to goodness towers like these M80's, I laugh at claims that these little Orb speakers can attain anywhere near the same kind of sound quality.

A fine budget speaker for smaller rooms they may be, but you're looking at REAL speakers when you're here at Axiom my friend. Don't confuse the two.

Actually no... that is a good idea... the 607 does fit but if it is not enough juice then a preamp is exactly what i will do.

P.S. She wears the pants... and I love taking those pants off so I usually try to come to a compromise. although I do usually end up getting what I want. I just convince her it was her idea.

Great answer!!! Hey at least you spit the truth!!! lol

So its down to this... the epic grand master 500 (so I can hang everything on the wall and appease my girlfriend) in a 2550 cubic foot room. A txsr607 if it is enough power or else a preamp and a more powerful amp. Does anyone have any other suggestions or does this sound pretty good?

Did i just read that someone likes to post while not wearing pants?

Ah come on fellas. Have some couth.

Steve, yes the 607 is lower than the 906 and apparently just barely fits, but I didn't mention it because I assumed that you might be looking for features(not necessarily power)more similar to the 906. The 607 might well have enough power to meet your needs depending on how loud you listen and how wide the dynamic range of the program material is. At least it might have enough power before it shuts down because of overheating in the confined space it's been crammed in to. That's simply a bad idea for any receiver, or even a preamp, which of course does have a lower-gain amplifier in it.

I'm worried about that statement. When you say "a little tight", how tight is that?

I know my Pioneer (manufacturer claim of 130 Watts x7), which actually runs pretty cool, specifies 23 inches of clearance above, 12 to each side, and 6 behind when installed in an enclosed area.

If you can afford it, a pre-amp with the power amp(s) located where there is plenty of breathing room would be my recommendation.

Well I guess Ill have to make room on the counter then for a bigger amp. Ill talk to my onkyo rep and see what I can get another 906 for or maybe an 876. I will also see what other brands I can get cost on and then let you guys know and you can let me know which you think is the best way to go since I am not very familiar with other brands aside from harmon kardon. Thanks again for everyones help

Sure, from your comment that the 6 15/16" 607 barely fits and the 7 5/8" 906 doesn't, even with feet removed, it appears that you're working with about 7". If you could remove a section of shelving to possibly double the available room this would help. You could then consider the 876 or another 906.

Since you already have a 607, you could do some experimenting so that we wouldn't be doing just guesswork. Temporarily set up the 607 with speakers down there and see if the setup would play at your listening level without overheating and shutting down.

I already set the 607 in there... it is tight. I have come to the conclusion that it is not fiesable to put the reciever in the shelving so I will just put it on the counter. the 607 is not mine... just borrowed it from work to see if it would fit. I have a 906 for my upstairs system.

If this counter has open space above it, that would be the logical place for any type of amplifying equipment.

yeah it does... just doesnt look as nice I guess but I can live with it. I may just do the 876 considering it is pretty much the same amp with slightly less power. Hopefully the onkyo rep will have a good deal for me.

So what the heck did you buy already????

Maybe this is a dumb answer but did you ever consider a used Panasonic Receiver?

If you are considering a 906 a Panny is decidedly low end, but it is a digital amp that doesn't put out much heat and it is cool running. I stuffed one of these below my dresser and it runs great.

You do miss all the new features of the new receivers so it is just a suggestion.

So here it is... I am just about to order the epic grand master 500 and I have decided on the avr3550hd Harmon Kardon amp. JC felt that it would have better sound than onkyo offerings. I just have one more quick question... Is the light maple close to white. My girlfriend has bought my sales pitch of these over the orbs but wants to make sure they speakers will match... lol

Steve, what matters isn't what's "felt", but the reality that modern receivers operated within their designed limits amplify transparently and none have better sound. Consider units such as the Onkyo 876 or Denon 4310 for an up-to-date performer.

Congratulations on the Epic Grand Master 500, which certainly will allow you to enjoy great sound down there.

Edit: okay, I deleted my comment about the old 3550, since you're considering the new one. The features available should be considered, including Audyssey MultEQ XT on several Denon and Onkyo models. Enjoy.

Actually the HK3550hd is harman kardons flagship amp right now until the 7550hd comes out this winter. I would wait for the 7550 but need something sooner. I was already considering the 876 with these but the "Axiom Audio Expert" thought the Harman Kardon would sound better.

I just ordered my stuff... cant wait to get it

Congratulations, I hope you enjoy your Axiom speakers as much as I do .

thanks a bunch for the help... still deciding on the amp... might just borrow the avr3550hd form work until the avr7550hd comes out. Also looking at the denon avr 4310ci which I can get for 1500 shipped to my door.

This is a very exciting time for you. I don't know what sort of history you have with audio equipment, but Axiom speakers sound as good as just about anything out there, and easily out perform anything in their price range.

I can still recall my very first impressions when I hooked them up to the Denon and tuned into a radio station. I was very worried that they were going to sound bright in my livingroom because it isn't ideal by any stretch of the imagination. First of all its square, secondly I have hardwood floors, and I have lots of pictures (with glass) hanging on the walls. I had sampled SRoodes Axiom set up, so I knew what the speakers were capable of, but his room was light years ahead of mine in terms of sonic stability & sound field control.

So I was hoping for the best, but expecting the worst. But much to my surprise & relief, I thought they sounded practically exactly as I recalled them sounding in Steve's incredible room! So I was happy beyond words!!! But as satisfied as I was with the intial impressions of them, the more I listen to them (I probably spend a good 5 - 10 hours a day listening to music while I edit, then watch a movie at night... EVERYDAY!!!) the more I appreciate how incredibly well they sound and reproduce a musical signal. As much as I looked forward to getting them home & enjoying them I could never have imagined how truely satisfied I would end up being with them!

You know how with some things the build up can't match up with the reality of the actual experience and you wind up disappointed because it failed to meet your expectations? Well the exact opposite was true of my Axiom purchase. I spent over four grand on my system, and having lived with them for a month now I never could have known that four thousand dollars could bring me this much joy day in and day out. I mean this is what I was hoping would happen. But very seldom in life does it ever work out this perfectly. Dispite some set backs with my subwoofer, I truely could not be happier with my purchase.

I hope you have a similar experience with your purchase!

Melvin I cant tell you how excited I am to get these. I cant believe how fast they got the order out to me... I ordered them yesterday and they are almost here already. I just brought home the AVR3550HD which I will be using until the AVR7550HD comes to my store and then will be swapping. You have now made my anticipation even greater and to top it all off I had my SXRD and screen installed today... so everyting is coming together. Just waiting on my second row of seating and the speakers and then I am done. Oh and all my framed posters... and then I am done... Or just beginning I suppose whichever way you look at it. Anyways I really appreciate the support of this forum. Thanks again

lol excuse me... I meant Micah*

Too late. He's hereby known as Melvin.

Dang, that happened to Ken Calvin, too.

Is that you, Sylvan?

It is! How ya doing, Buford?

Ha ha, funny story... I was corresponding with JC about the speaker I needed replaced and he wrote back, "is there some sort of mistake here? I can't find a Melvin White in our records"...

I was cracking up!

So my speakers are going to be here on monday which I am so excited about. I have just one more question. Would an onkyo integra dtr 9.9 be overkill for the epic grand master 500 speakers? My onkyo rep said it is underated at 145w/channel. I have the ability to purchase direct from onkyo at 20% below dealer cost so I can get it for an excellent price. Just wondering if it is worth it?

Overkill? Certainly not. Keep in mind that a speakers biggest enemy is being run with too little power, or cheap amps that distort the signal. The M22's are rated at 200 watts, and the DTR 9.9 is rated at 145 watts, but in most recievers that only means 1 channel driven, not all 7. So you should be well within the speakers limits. The fact that you're looking at buying a reciever that costs more than your entire HT system is a bit unusual... but hey, whatever works for you bubba.

Monday is the day eh? Sweet, can't wait to hear your impressions!

Not overkill at all. Very nice piece of equipment in fact.

lol micah... It normally would be more expensive than the speakers... but becasue I buy it direct from onkyo it will only cost me about 1400.

Can I be your new best friend?