Hi everyone I hooked up 7.1 to my sherwood and it shuts down (safety circuit) after 5 min everytime I use the 2 back speakers. So I am going to send it after talking to them apparently its a known problem. I dont want to be without my system for a month so I am going to buy seperates I like Emotiva because of the price but their new unit is not available yet. So does anyone know of seperates as good or better around the same price level $1400 for both. I am not that knowledgeable on seperates the emotiva brand was just a recommendation from someone I trust in the field but he didnt know of any others in that price range. Thanks

No surprise here of what my 2 cents would be for an amp. Although you would still need a pre.

As others here tried to tell me before I learned a hard lesson with Emo, you can't go wrong with Odyssey, give Klaus a call, it's worth the wait. For $1400.00 you can get Khartago monos, I know I love mine, I previously had the Emo RPA-2, but after 2 failed amps I finally gave Klaus a call. Randy can tell you about his Khartagos as well.

Check out this review among many. And this is a $800.00 odyssey going up against a $100,000.00 amp.

http://www.avguide.com/review/tas-195-odyssey-audio-khartago-stereo-amplifier

Dana

Are you sure the receiver is defective. Have you checked your speaker wire for stray whiskers or any defects in the wire? Since you just said you installed speakers for a 7.1 setup, this is quite possible. I don't remember you running M80's so any of the Axioms you have will not be taxing on the receiver. It should run a 7.1 setup with no problems.

I have them hooked up with banana plugs so I doubt there are any stray whiskers but will check again. It shuts down like after 1 min buy really only if I turn it past 12 o clock. Thanks for the heads up on Emo my friend who recommended them doesnt own them but was going buy my cost ref I wanted.

Yeah check the outer wire for any damage. How do you run the wire to your surrounds? Is the wire ran underneath anything?

I will check all the wiring again but it is really good wire (12 gage)with banana plugs and yes it does run underneath stuff but its well insulated. Does Odyssey make a 7 channel amp? I mean what would I get from them for my 7.1 system could you recommend all the components I would need to replace my sherwood reciever and I dont need a tuner. So I would need a amp<preamp and a video processor unless its included in the pre amp which is what I would like if possible because space is limited too. I just dont know crap about seperates except going way back to my old 2 channel days when I had a conrad johnson amp (tube) and pre amp hooked up to my MKs I miss that old system because I feel like I dont know squat about audio now but have learned alot from this forum so thanks. Guy

I don't know that you're going to get everything you want at a $1400 budget. Preamps are expensive...

Guy,

Odyssey does not offer a 7 channel amp. Klaus's website is below. The site needs updating, so it's always best to call Klaus with any questions.

http://www.odysseyaudio.com/index.html

As a suggestion, just go with a decent avr with pre-outs and a stereo Khartago amp(or monos if you can afford) and that should cover your 7.1 system well. You can drive your mains (via pre-outs)with the Khartago and use the AVR for the rest of the channels.

Odyssey Khartago = $799.00
Marantz SR6003 = $669.00 (or less)

This setup will be close to your budget and cover your needs to handle all the video and audio with all the new codecs, HDMI, etc.

I personally will be replacing my old Yamaha with the Marantz SR6003, but that just my preference. FYI

Dana

I could go up to $2000 max on this but I am not going to rush this purchase I want the best I can get with my budget.

What speakers are you running again?

I have 2 M22s, VP150, 2QS8s and 2 HSU horns in back and a SVS cylinder sub

You can't use amps, unless you have a preamp or a receiver acting as a preamp. My guess is a receiver alone would be fine, is this a new Sherwood? If so, it would be under warranty if it is new.

Of I remember, your room is not huge, so any decent receiver should be fine. Most people go with extra amps to drive speakers like the m80's, you will never need gobs of power for the rear channels in my opinion.

It is possible that your wiring is shorted. If it is running "under" stuff, how can you be sure that is not the problem.

Run some extra wiring above the flooring to the speakers and see if you have the same problem...

In my opinion a pre-pro/amp combo is not needed. Especially one costing $1500-$2000 to drive M22's. I am still suspicious if the receiver you own is actually faulty since it only shuts down in 7.1 mode. I still think it is plausable that there could be a problem with your speaker wire leading to your newly installed surround speakers. I am not at all familiar with the HSU horn speakers though. If your receiver is indeed found to be defective and you have some money to spend you should consider a mid-upper end Denon receiver and if you have money left over after that spend it on another subwoofer over amplification.

Guy, I share the Doc's thought that it's less likely to be the fault of the Sherwood. It would be unusual to have difficulty running the back surrounds if wiring is proper and if there isn't an internal short in a back surround speaker. Re-check the wiring and switch other speakers back there to see if it's a wiring or speaker problem instead.

What JohnK said.

I would get the rear channels out of the equation and see how things work, if it doesn't have any issues then the problem must be with one or both of the speakers used in the rear channels. My old Denon 1804 stated the rear channels needed to be a minimum of 16 ohm as the rear channel(s) was split on one amp so dual 8 ohm speakers in parralel would have been around 4 ohm and could have possibly caused it to shut down, luckily it never did with a single 6 ohm QS8 on the circuit.

Well, he said that Sherwood said it was a known issue. However, I'd probably go with a Denon as well, maybe a nice 2 channel amp along with it if you really felt like it.

Here is a thread about some of the Sherwood issues.

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-custom/thread.cgi?16326

I also copy and pasted this from the Sherwood website FAQ about troubleshooting shut down issues.

There are many reasons why a receiver will shut down unexpectedly. The first thing to check is the speaker wiring. Make sure the speaker wires are not shorted out (touching each other). You should check the speaker wiring to be absolutely sure the wiring is correct. If the wiring is correct you should power down the receiver and completely disconnect ALL the speaker wires. Then turn the receiver ON, without any speakers connected, to see if the receiver continues to shut down.

If it continues to shut down there could be damage internally. If it remains on (this is usually a good sign) turn the volume up to about half way and connect one speaker at a time until the receiver shuts down again. You can single out which speaker is causing the problem at which point you should repair or replace the problem speaker/speaker wire.

From the linked thread it doesn't sound like a lot of installers are having problems, especially since one of his shut down issues was installer error - staples through the speaker wires.

Yeah. Since the surround back is causing problems and are bookshelves which do not need to be wall mounted. All you would need is like 5 feet of wire for each speaker. Placement of the HSU horns does not matter during the test since it is just a matter of seeing if the receiver will shut down again in 7.1 mode with different wire.

Well a friend of mine brought over his 10 gauge speaker wire and it shut down after a couple of minutes with the back speakers turned on. it runs fine with the back speakers turned off though. So it looks like I am sending this unit back it is under warranty but I still am going to buy a new one. So if you had $2000 what would you buy for an AV to power your 7.1? I guess I dont care if its seperates or not I just want the best for my money. Im thinking Denon or Integra but would like the forums input. Thanks

The Axiom speakers are very efficient and require minimal wattage to play very loud, so most likely external amps are not required. Any reputable brand receiver will have no problems driving those speakers, even the Sherwood Newcastle.

So are you sending it back for a replacement, or to get your money back? Any receiver in the $300-900 range will have no issues, as long as you get one that has the features you want. I just upgraded to a Denon 3808, since my 2805 did not have HDMI hookups. Both can drive my 80's, 150, qs8's, etc in my 8,000 cubic ft room to insane levels with no distortion.

No reason to fork out 2grand, I would use that money for bigger Axiom speakers.

Just wondering; do you have the rears set to small? Those Hsu horns go rather low in impedance.

Ahhh, I missed the post where he said he is using horns in the back, most likely that is the issue. As Rick mentioned all speakers should be set to small with appropriate crossover for the sub to reproduce.

The sherwood does not have the big or small setting just xover which I have at 80.

The Hsu horns lowest impedance is above your crossover setting. Can you higher it to see if the shut downs continue.

Maybe try the QS8s on the rear channel, just to see if it has to do with the rear amp section not liking the horns. Which S/N model are you using?

Is this a newer Sherwood receiver? So your saying you can't set the individual speakers to small/large? That is the whole point of the crossover, either the speaker gets the full range, or sends the frequencies below the crossover point, for those speakers designated as small.

What model Sherwood is it?

SirQ we've been through all this before with 33guy. His receiver has a crossover option for each speaker called "full range". As long as he selects any other numeric setting the speaker is considered small.

That is what I was thinking, just wasn't familiar with the Sherwoods...that makes sense..

Okay, Guy; you've eliminated wiring as the problem. The possibility that one of the back surround speakers is defective still remains. As was said before, you should temporarily connect other speakers to the back surround terminals to check this before you return the receiver.

If it becomes necessary, there are several fine receivers available for well under $2,000, especially the Denon and Onkyo models.

I have ran my m80's wit the emotiva LPA-1, XPA-5, and XPA-1 monoblocks and have yet to trip the protection circuit. If you want to run an Emotiva amp with M80's please give them a call an order one.

The problem is not with just the 80's, other brands 4ohm speakers have issues as well. Those that have been around a long time know the fun I had diagnosing with Lonnie at Emo. Your mileage may vary. I would not recommend this combination.

Meh. Again with another "Emotiva amps suck" thread...

Some have had problems, others have not. Those that have had problems are obviously going to be very vocal about it. Those that have not, less so. Ergo, the problems stand out. There's also been a bit of a spat between Axiom and Emotiva over M80's and the high-end Emo amps. Emo claims that M80's dip below 2-ohms at certain frequencies, due to a substandard crossover design. Axiom (and most here) claim that Emo is full of you-know-what and are over-rating the specs on some of their amps or have QC problems. So a little bad blood to add fuel to the fire.

Personally I'm not buying another Emo product because of their ongoing incompetence in bringing the UMC prepro to market. I simply have no tolerance for a company that has demonstrated such a gross mismanagement of a project. Delays are expected and missed-deadlines are tolerable, but the multi-year UMC debacle has entered into the realm of the ridiculous. I'm just not drinking any more Emo Kool-aid.

Ranting aside, I must let the facts be facts...

I've been running my M80V2's bi-amped with the "cheap" $499 Emotiva LPA-1 for over 2 1/2 years now. My 'can't run 4-ohm speakers' circa-2002 Pioneer Elite AVR truly isn't able to run M80's at loud volume. I needed an amp that promised it would run them without breaking the budget. I gave the LPA-1 a shot, and have been extremely pleased with it. No problems at all, up to ear-splitting 110db+ levels. Sounds great. No shutdowns. It was worth it.

So, truly, YMMV.

Still the best advice to give is to let people know that problems do exist between the M80's and EMO amps. It really doesn't matter who is right or wrong on why. Buyer beware I guess.

hi all,

noted in the forumers signatures that there are some forumers still using the emotiva power amps with their axiom speakers..

can these ppl share their opinion please?

I'd say the people that are still using them like them, and the people that aren't, don't. There are many opinions on Emotiva on the forums, and most are represented in this thread.

Sapro, the problems with the Emotiva line for some people, have been when driving the M80's, you won't have a problem with the speakers you own. Why do you think you need extra power, isn't your 1800 fine?

Why do you ask this every time someone wants info on an amp Randy. It could just mean, he wants an amp. Nothing wrong with that.

Even you, when you were an amp guy, noted some positives when running an external amp. No?

Sapro,

I will say when my RPA-2 was working I really like it. If emo's work out for you, the value for performance is excellent. FYI.

Dana

Because its a reasonable question? How much amp power you need is a simple physics problem and there are calcuators out there that will give you a very close approximation of your power needs given room size, listening habits, distance from the speaker and speaker efficiency.

I'll crawl back under my bridge now.

See, when I read people say



Then ask others why do they think they need an amp, it makes me wonder.

He's moved over to the dark side?

I guess I ask because in most situations people don't need the extra amps, as they will never make use of the extra power in their room. Seems I've heard you ask people how big their room is and how loud they crank it up, no?

In my situation, my room is 2-3 times bigger than most rooms. I enjoyed the extra ummmpfff when cranking up my 80's to concert levels. However, those opportunities don't come often with the family always around, and besides the Denon 3808 plays louder than most people could handle, even in my huge room.

Don't get me wrong, I do miss my amps, but my companies financial situation drove me to needing the money. In addition, HT movies are primarily what gets played at the Plex.

Like I said in the above quote from the archives, 95dB's and above I did notice a difference. I never said there isn't a difference did I? The majority of the time I'm not listening to music at insane volumes, so I decided the extra headroom was just that, extra, and not being used often enough.

For all HT movie needs, and most music requirements, the Denon alone is adequate at 130 watts/ch. I don't see a problem in asking people how large the room is, and their listening styles for music. Why have them spend all that extra money for power they will most likely never touch for most situations. I guess I don't want to mislead people.

I guess we all have the right to change our views.

I'm still in the "buy as much power as you can afford" crowd.

What is all this talk about 'calculators, room size, needs' and the like, I thought we lived in America (well, and Canada)? You know, home of things like the 'Whopper', and the 'Sears Tower' (CN Tower for the Canadians), and the 'Mustang GT', etc... In other words, I thought this was the land of 'more'!!!

If we all took our calculators out when we went to the restarant all we'd have is a salad and a water and the 'Whopper' would cease to exist. Building humongous towers like the 'Sears' and CN' would be sensless, and nobody would have to worry about any buildig being highter than say 15 stories. And we'd all be driving around in either a Ford 'Focus' or a Honda 'Accent' getting gobs and gobs of miles per gallon while making do with a scant 80 horse power.

So let's put those silly calculators away before someone hurts themselves shall we? We wouldn't want anyone to not get more than they needed would we? Not here in the America's.






Oh, and yes I love the way the XPA-3 drives my M80's to insane levels of volume btw...

A while back we were talking about the power needed to run a system and I remember Ian commenting on it.

And?

Ahem. I drive an Escort!

::puts power calculator in pocket protector and struts off::

I don't see any inconsistency between what Ian and I wrote. He was talking about large rooms and a little playing with a calculator will verify what he says.

In a small to moderate room, you will never need a ton of power, but when your room gets big enough, you will run out very quickly

I am willing to bet that if you move from a 1700 cu. ft. room to a 3000 cu ft room, you will loose a few db of room gain. I am also willing to bet that in a concrete bunker like my apartment, you will gain a few DB due to increased reflection.

I still like my calculator post.

OK, heres some examples using the M80.
To listen at 90 DB with 15db of head room for peaks:

8' listening distance = 50w
12' listening distance = 103w
15' listening distance = 175w Look ma, I need external amps!
18' listening distance = 275w mine's bigger than yours is

To listen at 95db w 15db headroom

8' = 157W WHAT?? YOU LIKE MY EXTERNAL AMPS?
12' = 344w
15' = 509w
18' = 760w

In my apartment I can listen at reference from my kitchen. In some of the rooms you guys have, my receiver would barely keep up in the main room.

An Escort eh? Well seeing as they stopped making the Escort in 2000 I'll assume it's somewhere between a 1997 and 2000 year model, which has a robust 110 horse power pushing along roughly 2500 pounds (without you in it). That bike in my avatar on the other hand sends 175 horses to the rear tire, which in turn launches all 375 pounds of the Kawasaki down the road at truely retarded speeds...

I guess with that information alone it would be easy to pick out which one of us touts an external amp and which one doesn't eh? Lol

Wow, that is eye opening! I suppose with 11,000 cubic feet to fill (35 x 35 x 9), and my seating position 17 feet from my M80's it's easy to understand why I needed the Emotiva to help out the Axiom towers. I have posted in previous threads that they sounded a bit 'strained' at higher volumes with just the Denon (125 watts per channel) pushing them. With this example, it's easy to understand why now.

Ok ok, so you've made a good example of why room size matters... I STILL wouldn't be caught dead in an Escort!!!
















(just playing, I once owned a 1990 Ford Escort. Wasn't flashy, but it motored along without any fuss. Never had that thing in the shop once and it had over 100,000 miles on it when I let my brother in law buy it off of me... I think he totaled it 2 months later!)

I will never own an escort because they smell bad.

I worked as a lot attendant at a car lot during summers in high school. We took in an Escort as a trade and while it was on the back lot someone puked in it and it sat there in the Phoenix summer sun for more than a week before someone found what had happened when they were sent to get it for the detailers. Try as they might they could never get the smell out of it and had to scrap it. Every time I think of an Escort I think of that smell.

Reminds me of an episode of 'Seinfeld'!

The BEAST!!!!!