Not the insides or anything like that, but the front feet height. I did a bunch of moving around with them a month or so back (did a thread about speaker placement), and found what I feel is the optimal placement for them up front. However there was some mention from an otherwise unmentionable troll by the name of Solid State about raising them up on milk crates, and how much better they sounded. I probably wouldn't have even thought twice about that being at all something I would try out, but then Grunt chimmed in and said he discovered this long ago and wrote about it in detail years ago.

So this got me thinking, does anyone here have their M80's, M60's or M50's pointing upward at all? Mine are sitting parallel to the floor right now, but it just occured to me that they send those little spacers with them in the feet kit. So I could experiment with placing one or two spacers in the front feet, therefore raising the front up just a bit. This might have a similar effect to placing them on milk crates (not something I really want in our sales room/home theater... speakers sitting on milk crates), though obviously not the exact same effect as the reflections will react quite differently.

However even if it's not all that similar to the milk crate thing, it still may improve the dynamics. So if you have your floor speakers tilted up at all, or have tried them that way and didn't like it, tell us about it. I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about this in here yet. That's not to say it hasn't been covered before, I just wasn't a part of that discussion if there was one. I will be experimenting with putting a spacer or two under the M80's here shortly and will post my thoughts afterwards.

I just thought I'd throw this question out there while I was thinking about it.

Sounds like an interesting experiment. I’ve never angled them up as my seating was never above the tweeter level before but it is now so I might also try it. I discovered that my M80s sounded better elevated in my apartment by accident when I placed a pair of M22s upside down on top of them to do an A/B comparison. I was shocked at how much better the M22s sounded. So I thought the only thing different was that they were higher up. So I put my M80s on milk crates and they now sounded as good as the M22s.

There were only three things I could figure were coming into play. One was that I was decoupling them from the floor. Second was that raising all the drivers was giving them better dispersion. In part because the tweeters were now above furniture level so I was getting more ambience and raising the woofers away from the floor was allowing more of there sound to disperse w/o bouncing off or being absorbed by the carpeted floor.

Since then I have found that I also just plain prefer to have the tweeters on all my speakers slightly above ear level (yes Dean commits another audio heresy ).

Cheers,
Dean

I have my M80's angled up slightly. I have the rubber feet on the back and the spikes on the front backed out of the holes a few turns. I think it helps raise the soundstage a bit. It could be psychological though?

Hi Micah and all,

It's an interesting subject, "soundstage height", and worth playing around with. I thought I'd written something in our newsletters about this, but I couldn't find it, however, I came across a reference to it in what I wrote about stand heights for bookshelf speakers:

"For reasons I've never fully understood, I don't like sitting in balconies, looking downwards on a performance or performers. I'm more accustomed to being seated on the main floor of a theater, watching the performers on a stage at the same level or slightly higher up. Even as a teen-ager (apart from the balcony hi-jinks), I never liked looking down at a movie screen. Consequently I like the soundstage even with or a bit higher, and 24-inch stands accomplish this."

It's certainly personal and it's one of the advantages of bookshelf speakers plus a sub, because you can easily play with the height factor.

Certainly when you raise or lower the position of any speakers, floorstanding or bookshelf, or even tilt them back or toe them in or out, an entirely different combination of direct and reflected sounds comes into play, so they'll sound different and the soundstage may well widen or become less wide. Whether you prefer that over a different placement is up to you. I tend to like a higher soundstage, which I get from my M22s on 24-inch stands, but when I switch to the floorstanding M80s using the same music, I find I accommodate the lowered soundstage fairly quickly.

Worth experimenting, for sure.

Regards,
Alan

I know a few people who tilt their speakers back a bit in order to "time-align the drivers". No idea if it helps; conventional wisdom seems to be that ears aren't particularly sensitive to phase information. With M60s I found a slight preference when they were raised a bit, but M80s are already taller so maybe not an issue there.

Axiom, 4-point Hydraulic Lifters FTW !!

I personally like one of the old timers from here on the board who had his 80s hung from the ceiling and angled down towards the listening area ... said they *really* brought Stevie Ray Vaughan's tone to life. I believe the same fella had an infinite baffle subwoofer in that room.

That is one system I would have truly loved to have listened to.

I found the biggest improvement when I 'decoupled' my M60's from the floor by using the rubber feet instead of the spikes (floor is carpeted). I have considered getting something like the Gramma I have under my sub. This would raise the speakers a few inches, but the main purpose would be further decoupling....

n00b question: Why does "decoupling" a speaker from the floor improved the sound?

Thansk
snazzed

It helps by isolating the speaker from the floor, sonic vibrations don't get transferred through the cabinet to the floor.

I have also found that I enjoy having the speakers slightly above ear level. Just seems more natural sounding to me.

Speaking of decoupling, my wife pulled up to a trailhead just outside of town with a car full of kids and interrupted an amorous tryst in progress. Let's say the car they were in was a'rockin'.

Yes, by removing the spikes, the speakers were no longer anchored to the floor, thereby removing the floor from vibrating with the speakers. Important with my 50 year old house.

Looking at the speakers, the tweeters are a few inches below ear level. Looks like it is time to experiment...

Warning....Hijack attempt in progress....

Amorous Tryst would be a good name for a rock band.

Amortise Tryst featuring Mark Johnson

with their new hit country single, "My Ex Dulled my Mortise before Leavin me Today."

Amortise is already a word, though, meaning to liquidate gradually over time. It's a financial term, but when used in conjunction with tryst, it sounds rather kinky. And messy.

Sorry Sheldon.
It was a bit of an intentional play on words. Both Mark's Mortise and the eventual liquidation that results from a broken marriage/tryst.

I didn't think it was too messy, although perhaps over-though.

I thought the liquidation only happened when the tryst wasn't interrupted?

This is as confusing as the Ohm's thing...

Well thanks for all of the input thus far, interesting stuff. And if this experiment gets anyone else changing things around, and they happen to find something they like even better than before, well then... REFLECT!!!

My experiment is done (for now anyway). First off let me just say that with every passing day these M80's sink deeper and deeper into my blood. I can't believe just 6 short months ago I didn't have these... and looking back, I don't know how I ever got on without them!!! As I grow more and more fond of them, and more accustomed to living with them in my everyday life, they climb higher and higher up my priority scale. What I mean by that is, there are things in life you would much sooner give up than others if push came to shove. And if for some reason one day I HAD to make a choice between my Axioms and say... my bed... well I think I would choose to sleep on the couch in a heartbeat. Keep in mind that when I first got my Tempur-pedic memory foam bead 3 years ago, it was my single favorite thing in the whole wide world, and I never thought I would ever be able to live life without one. When I had my fire last fall the foam bead was one of my main concerns as far as replacing things went. But it takes a back seat to the enjoyment I get from my speakers these days. I don't think I would give up my motorcycle for my speakers... I'm not quite there yet. I've been riding motorcycles for almost 20 years now, and I'm a biker to the core. However I'd probably be at least a little torn if I had to choose between them!

Ok ok enought about all that, back to the subject... so first things first, and the very first thing I did was changed the Denon over to stereo mode (from 5/7 channel mode). I figured I would be able to zero in on the M80's much better if they were the only speakers playing. So as soon as I changed it over to stereo I immediatelly shrieked!!! It's funny when you're used to somethng, how bad somethng else can sound to you. I used to HATE 5/7 channel mode. I thought it lacked bass, was too spread out, not IN YOUR FACE enough... bass ruled in stereo mode, it was old school, the way music was meant to be played, yada yada... but once I put my QS8's up on the wall behind me, the VP150 on the wall in front of me, and the M80's all hooked up and started experimenting, suddenly I really, really, REALLY liked the way 5/7 channel playback 'opened up' the sound stage'... who knew? So now when I switch over to stereo mode, everything sounds condensed, stuffy, compressed, even a tad muddy to my ear. Until I get accustomed to it that is. After listening to a few songs in stereo I did start to enjoy it.

So anyways, after I got over that I started experimenting with listening to a song with them as they were, then placing a thin board (roughly the same thickness as two spacers) under the front two feet. I did this over and over and over with several songs. A third of the time I thought I definately like them tilted up better. Another third of the time I thought perhaps they did sound better flat of the floor. And the last third had me thinking there really was no difference at all. So it was hardly a 'night and day' difference, but in the end I decided to put two spacers inbetween the rubber feet and the speaker. While it's not overwhelming, I do feel as though tilted slightly upward do give just a little better performance.

I sure wish I could have done a blind 'A/B' test where I could have heard the differences between the two set-ups instantly. Having to get up and change things around, even though I was only up for 30 seconds inbetween takes, did leave something to be desired. But you have to make do with what you have. So for now anyway, I'm liking them tilted up a hair.

Back to the hijack - Amortise is the British spelling of Amortize. So my question is.....was the car rocking from the left side or the right?

Micah, the suggestion is still to try a surround mode such as DPLII which extracts surround ambience present to varying degrees in two channel material and sends it to the surrounds where it belongs, making the listening experience a bit more realistic. All channel stereo, in contrast, simply duplicates the left front in the left surround and likewise for the right side. It's a mode that can use even mono material to get the surrounds involved, but the effect isn't as realistic, although it can sound pretty good.