Hey guys, figured I would start a new thread documenting the progress of my HT (Mod, please feel free to delete the old one). My first thread was supposed to be about speaker stands but went into everything else and the thread’s topic is no longer accurate. So starting over here, hopefully you guys will enjoy seeing everything develop :). Here is some background info…

Just bought my first home back in September, it’s a cozy little cape cod in a great lake community. I was originally just going to change a few things, but it turned into a completely gut job. Nothing left but studs right now…lol. Being a major tech head the living room setup is one of my top priorities . The room is 11'x17'. It has a small fireplace and two entrances to other rooms, the kitchen and secondary bedroom. Originally it only had the opening to the kitchen, but I knocked down a wall near the stairs into a bedroom on the first floor to really open it up. I’ll turn that room into a billiard room eventually. Here are some pictures…

Original front wall...


Original back wall, there is now an opening between the front door and stairs going into the bedroom.


Removed cabinets...


Wall framed out to hold 65" plasma


New Fireplace


Electrical and paper model of TV so I can figure out where to run LV wires.


Render of the room. On the right an AV rack and m60/m80, on the left an m60/m80 and EP600.


So that is where I am right now. I need to figure out what speakers and amp/AVR I am going to buy. I know I am def going 6.1, with VP150 as my center and 3 QS8s as my surrounds. Not sure if I want to go with the m60s or m80s however.

If you can afford it, order both the M60s/M80s do a comparison and send back the pair you don't want to keep, or if there happens to be an M80 or M60 owner nearby ask for a demo and order the opposite set of speakers and compare them to his

My parents actually have m60s in the setup I installed for their living room (which is MUCH bigger than mine), so I could always borrow them. My real issue is powering the m80s. I really had my eye on an emotiva UPA-7 amp paired up with their UMC-1 pre-pro once it comes out. However it seems emotiva amps are hit or miss with the m80s.

So as far as options go this is what I am looking at...

1.)Ditch the emotiva amp and spend alot more and get the axiom amp in order to power the m80s, vp150, and three qs8s
2.) Get a high-end AVR, like a Denon 5308CI or 4308CI for the m80s, vp150, and three qs8s
3.) Stick with the emotiva amp and get the m60's instead of the m80s

To decide I need to figure out a few things... The room is only around 1300 cubic feet, do I really need a speaker as powerful as an m80? Will it sound that much better? Will the m60's with the EP600 be enough? Than of course to seperates really offer that much more over similarly high quality AVR?

I would really like to hear what you guys have to say based off your experince. Thanks!

I think there's a bit of ground between a UPA-7 and an A1400-8... quality and price-wise.

How loud do you plan to crank things up? Our living room upstairs is 1,000 cu ft larger than yours, my old Denono 2805 gives me more volume/performance then I would ever need driving m22's and a ep350.

My basement is 8 times bigger than yours and my Denon 3808 drives my M80 7.2 setup with no problem.

Yeah I know I am all over the price spectrum, just trying to figure out what would work best with the room.



Thanks sirquack that is good info to have. I have M2's, Vp100, and QS4's in my bedroom at my parents house, all driven by a Denon 2000 something CI and it works pretty well. I just wanted to go all out with my own place.

Like I mentioned my parents have an Epic 60 system that I really like and they are in a 20x25x25 massive living room. So my thinking was yah the m80s can go louder, but will the sound be more detailed than the m60s at lower volumes also? That is what I am concerned about the quality of the sound, not the sheer volume.

It is not the speakers that are powerful, it is all about what drives them. The M60s sound great as do the M80s and you just have to decide if the sound of the M60s is enough for you or do you want that extra little bit more you can achieve with the M80s.

The biggest difference is do you forsee running the system as a 2 channel and want the fullest range mains as possible, this would be the M80s, if not stick with the M60s, you may lose a little bit of midrange/upper end clarity(?)/feel and lower bass range but really only noticeable in direct A/B testing.

It is a tough decision, I went through it a few years ago and ordered the M60s. They sounded a bit different then my M22Ti's, not as forward, so I sought out an M80 owner in town, Mojo and we did a fairly lengthy comparison between my M22s, the M60s and his M80s.

http://axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=207481&fpart=1

The Denons run the M80s with no problems and in a space like yours should be all you need. If you get upgradeitis you can always add a 2 chanel amp to drive the M80s at a later date.

Thank's Jake, that actually helped me out alot, I am def leaning more towards the m80's now. I do mostly use my gear for HT and not music, but I do prefer the crisper more clear cut sound that you mentioned the m80's provde over the m60s. Although I do wish I had more room to seperate my two towers, they are only going to be 6 feet apart, but than again my listening position will be about the same.

What model denon are you using to drive them?

Agreed, My room is just a little larger than this, and my Denon 2809 can achieve earsplitting levels. I think your room(and your ears) will be the limitting factor on how loud you play. One thing you might also consider, Mike, is to use a thick curtain to section off the foyer(on a rail to slide it out of the way when you want) and maybe one either side of the other walkthrough.

I can attest to the fact that the M80s are very detailed even at low volume.

After rereading the M22, M60, M80 thread from link above, I'm ready to buy a set of M60's to go along with my M22's. LOL. Concerning the A/B switching on the receiver, am I understanding this correctly? That the B is for Zone 2, so the M60's are hooked up to A (Zone 1) and the M22's are hooked up to B (Zone 2)?

Our living room is about the same size as your room. I have M80's in it and couldn't be happier. I say you get them as you can always compare them to your parent's M60's. Get a reciever with the features you need/want but perhaps look for one with pre outs in case you feel the need to upgrade to more power at a later date.

Some updated renders adding in the sofa and surrounds....





Here is an image of what one would see if sitting on the sofa. There is a lot of stuff on the wall, hope it doesn't look to busy!

I ran the M80s with a lowly Denon 1804 and had no problems what so ever, I now have the venerable 3808 which just plays a touch cleaner when I go LOUD.

While I was waiting for the M80s to arrive I listened extensively to the M60s and after I forgot how the M22s/M80s sounded the M60s were really working for me. I wish I had kept them I prefer the look of the M60 with the exposed frontal area compared to the full grill look of the M80.

I agree the m60's look nicer, they should make the m80's a tad taller :).

Perhaps they would look better, but how would that effect the sound? I suppose if the base they raised them on were solid it wouldn't effect the interior space that is crucial to achieving the desired sonic qualities that they do. One thing that it would achieve is the improved sound quality some on this board have discovered they display when placed on milk crates. Look and sound better? Killing two birds with one stone works for me!

Ran some nice big conduit this weekend, a 2" piece of PVC and 1.25" raceway...



Should have plenty of room to run the fattest of cables :). Also started to run cat6 for my internet and telephone lines. Going to finish it up and start the coax this weekend...

Thanks for the update

Crap what happened to all the pictures!

Update: Organizing my pictures in flickr broke all the links...ugh. I will repost...

Oh I didn't realize you were converting your fireplace into a wood burning stove, we're actually kicking around the idea of doing the same. How much did that part of the project set you back?

No conversion, still a regular old wood burning fireplace, just had it resurfaced. Had a fireplace store order me some slate slabs to glue over the old brick. Also picked out a glass door insert to be installed to keep drafts out. Cost me around 2k, but I am very happy with it. Just have to build the mantel now once the sheet rock goes back up.

Oh I see. Well it looks fabulous. Can't wait to see what the finished room looks like!

Just a quick update...

Insulation has been installed and the whole first floor has been sheetrocked. Unfortunately, construction on the dormer isn't going to start until March, so gonna be awhile before I can start ordering speakers. Oh well works out, Panasonic is releasing some sweet 3D plasmas later this year.

Ah the joys of mudding!

That's a lot of work, but it's coming along nicely Mike.


It's the sanding part that I don't like.

It's amazing how much smaller the room looks once you get the drywall up.

Thanks! Got to order the kitchen cabinets this week. If you guys want to see the rest the house, just PM me your e-mail addys and I will add you to my flickr album so you can see them.



You're telling me I was so used to looking and walking through walls :(!

Do you have any idea as to hot much heat that fireplace will put out? I know I thought of my TV above a fire place too but it is not good for them to run for any length of time with ambiant heat above 32 degrees C or that is 90 degrees F if you are in the states.

Later
Phil

Did you notice how much insulation they stuffed into that room? I'd say they could light a candle, stick it in that fireplace, and it would keep that room warm. Then again, if he's putting up a plasma he won't even need a candle!

Hahah, yeah with the thermostat set to 55F it's plenty warm in the house. Can you image what it's going to be like with a 65" plasma on that wall, I am going to need to run the A/C in the winter...lol.

Oh and to answer your question Phil, I measured temps before I decided where to place the TV. With a big fire going the brick only registred 60F, now that I framed a new wall over it plus all the insulation, the back of the TV will be cooler than the front with a fire going...lol.

just addding my 2 cents I know of a friend who pooched his plasma above a fire place. Cold at night and lots of late night xbox sessions LOL.

later
Phil

How do you "pooch" a plasma?

Well the official report was that the fireplace gave off too much heat in combination with the plasma heating up the pannel too much and it started leaking. = pooched in my books.

Later
Phil

Yeah. I was wondering about the heat factor. It probably depends a lot on the fireplace setup. I think I would want to measure the amount of heat before installing a TV in that spot. For me I have brick there, but this one in particular it looks like the TV will be mounted on sheetrock. And a little too high for my taste. I like the TV at about eye level.

Ok, how about this. Put the plasma IN FRONT of the fireplace without using a real fire. That way you can just play "the fire scene" on the plasma but have real heat coming out for realism!
Oh! Wait! then you could get another plasma to put above the "fireplace plasma" to watch movies on....problem solved!

Or you could get two mirrors mount one at 180 degrees and one at 45 degrees and then the reflection from the one playing would be the fire place and the other one would be .........................Oh look a buterfly isn't it purdy.

Heat will def not be an issue. As I said I measured the brick while I had a fire going for a few hours, it didn't even get warm to the touch. There is now a layer of 4" insulation and a row of 2x6's over it. It will be fine.



Yeah I usually do to, but there really is nowhere else to put it. The room is kind of narrow to put the sofa under the window and TV on the opposite wall. I'll just make sure I get a sofa that reclines...lol. Oh and the speakers will be at least at ear level :).

Quick update. Walls are all primed, ceilings painted, trim installed, and hardwood floors refinished. Besides the living room, kitchen cabinets are in, first floor bathroom is just about done, and they just started on adding the dormer on the second floor.

Also pre-ordered my Panasonic 65VT25 for the family room in addition to a Samsung 40C6500 LED for the kitchen. Rough project completion is looking like late July. However all the fun stuff like AV gear, computers, networking should be finished by mid June. I hope...lol.

Keep watching the thread :)!

Looking good, I like the color of your floor! That poor lamp looks lonely though

Haha, I know. I am reall happy with the floors though, they came out great. Was going to start painting the walls this weekend, but might hold off until they are done with the upstairs. They still need to rip the roof off, sheetrock, and refinish the floors upstairs, plus the stairs themsevles. That is ALOT of dust to clean, and I like my walls freshly painted, not painted and washed off...lol.

It's shaping up nice, Mike. I'm really digging the floor, too! Love the color and grain pattern!

Looking good Mike, nice floors.

Aren't you pposed to do the floors last?

Most of the work on the first floor is finished, just need to paint the walls. My contractor suggested I painted first however to make it easier. I am really neat when I paint so just decided to do the ceiling (biggest PITA). I am glad I did because everything is caked in dust from sanding. I like my walls freshly painted :).

However the stairs still need to be refinished and of course the dormer being added, will create more dust. They just gutted the second floor yesterday so i'll try and seal up the stairs as well as I can with some plastic and tarps to try and keep as much dust out as I can.

I could have waited for the second floor to be finished before and just painted and refinished all the floors in one shot instead of doing each floor separate, but it would have set me back 2-3 months. At least this way the first floor is finished while I work on the second and hopefully be able to move in mid summer. I am hoping to finish the whole house (for the most part) by the time I school starts up in sept (I'm a HS teacher).

Nothing new to report on my living room HT, waiting to finish the rest of the house before I start painting the room, ordering the gear, and installing everything.

Lots of progress on my second floor, figured I would post those shots since I plan on doing surround in all bedrooms. First up my master bedroom...


Dormer being all framed out.



Back wall with windows looking into backyard. Gonna put my bed in between the two windows. You can see the mud rings with speaker wire running through them. Going to do 6.1. Wanted to do 7.1, but the speakers would have been too big over the back windows.




Front wall the bed will be facing. You can see the speaker wires and conduit. Gonna see if I can fit another 65" on a low A/V stand.



Guest bedroom in far corner and bathroom all framed out.




Going to but a simple setup in the guest room. I am thinking like a 40" LED on that wall, and 5.1 setup around a daybed. Have't figured it out yet.


Anyway so yeah, this is what I have been up too. New roof just went on this week too, siding is going to go up next week hopefully. Then just need to sheet rock the inside, lay down new hardwood floors, and I am ready to paint and finish everything up!

Wish me luck!

Looking good Mike! you've been keeping busy!

What's the raised framework on the middle of the floor?

The contractors stack the ceiling plates on top of the floor plate, raise it, and tie everything together. Guess its an easy way to make sure everything lines up the way it should between the floor and the ceiling.

Everything is finally painted!

Just ordered one of the new Denon Receivers (AVR-3311CI), still need to order speakers, and my 65" 3D panny should be in soon. Oh also ordered my La-Z-Boy sofa, which should arrive by mid July.





The wall on the right is where the TV in the kitchen is going. Got a 40" samsung LED. Just going to hook up a small computer behind so I can use the TV for finding recipes and reading the news in the morning. Also going to get a slingbox so I can watch TV off one of the other cable boxes in the house.





Here is the master bedroom's front wall. My bedroom TV will go there, still need to order a stand. Going to just use the 50" panny I have now, but will prob upgrade to something bigger soon.





Finally here is the guest bedroom's rear wall. Not going to put anything in here soon. Figured when I upgrade the TV in my bedroom, I will put my 50" panny in here.

Looks like a lot of TVs! Any plans for audio is those other rooms?

Of course! The living room is wired for 6.1 (couldn't do 7.1 one because of the stair well), my bedroom is 6.1 (couldn't do 7.1 because of the windows!!) and the guest bedroom is wired for 5.1. The kitchen is not getting any, although if I can find a nice slim speaker bar, those ones that do virtual surround, I may pick that up.

Wow! That is promising!

Poor kitchen.

I know I've been in many a speaker bar and thought "I'd tap that".

For the kitchen, Audiobytes might be doing the trick.

OHMYGOD, it's a straight line....

Ok then, Mark!


If your kitchen does not get any, it's probably because you are trying to pick up something slim from a bar. Lower your kitchen's expectations and it'll get some.

lmao



Thanks I'll take a look.

If I am reading this right, the kitchen isn't getting any so the Audiobytes will turn the trick? Nothing like pimping out audio hardware.

Need a SqueezButt to distribute playlists.

Finally starting to move along! TV was delivered last week so I finished all the wall terminations and hung her up on the wall!





You can also see the AV gear that I will be hooking up in my media cabinet. Still need to pick up one of the new smaller xboxs. My axiom Epic 60-600 system should be on its way soon. Just need my sofa now....lol.

Also started working on the TV for the kitchen. Have not hung it on the wall yet, wanted to get my little HTPC up and running first.



Its working great and hopefully mount everything this coming week. Well as long as I don't get distracted by any number of other rooms I need to finish!



Stay tuned, I'm almost there .

Exiting stuff. Keep the pics coming!

Wow, that tv is really up there!!! Oh well, if you're happy with it there then that's all that matters. Beautiful floor. And I really like the way the white trim looks up against the new paint! Do you have a big rug to put between your couch and the speakers that are on their way?

Haha it looks a lot worse than it is. The house is old and ceiling height is only like 7ft. I have it slanted down and its actually pretty comfortable to watch even in a folding chair. Didn't pick out rugs yet, but had a guy over the other day to take measurements for the runner going up the stairs. Had him measure all the rooms for area rugs too while he was there. I will hopefully pick some out before the week is out.

Also got my e-mail from Axiom that my speakers are on their way! Can't wait to sit down and watch the first movie.

Great news and the room is looking good so far

Speakers came this afternoon and I managed to wire up the fronts. Tomorrow I plan on working on the surrounds. Although the back surround is gonna take me a bit, forgot to order the ceiling mount bracket .

i would imagine that ep-600 really pounds in that room?

I would say to possibly bring the m60's out some, slightly past the AV rack, see if that helps.

We will be waiting on more pictures from you btw!!

Ha, yeah it does. I have it turned down a little under the halfway mark now. Part of the reason I went with the EP600, is it's size. It's close to the size of the A/V cabinet so it adds a little symmetry to the room. I still need to calibrate everything, going to try Denon's room calibration software first and see how it goes. If I don't like it I'll break out the sound meter.

Otherwise is sounds pretty good right out of the box. I have the m60's closer to the walls, than the sub or AV rack, about 6"s off them. IF I go past the AV rack and sub, they kind of look like they are floating to much in the room. I have to play around with it and really see how it sounds. That will all come in the next few weeks. I have so much crap in the A/V cabinet that has to be set up. LOTS of menus to poor through. Not to mention I have have to set up the TV in the kitchen and the master bedroom!

6" away from the wall should be more than enough.

the reason i was saying move them in front, was incase the a/v rack/sub might limit your sound stage some.

Ah okay good point. I'll give it a try!

my m60's are pushed forward about 1 inch, i have a similar configuration as you.

M60 | A/V rack | TV | EP-600 | M60

Sofa, coffee, and end table arrived this past Friday .





Went to go mount my QS8 surrounds only to realize the wall brackets are not going to work, need the ceiling ones. So ordered them from Axiom, now I wait . Can't wait to finally get it ALL up and running.

In the mean time still have the other TVs to get going, and my new project int he backyard...

So your backyard project is: a hole, a mound and a Christo wanna be in black?

Wow, you've got more elevation change in your back yard than I've seen in the whole state of Florida ... not many rock climbers comes from my neck of the woods.

Gorgeous setup Mike!

Lol, 10,500 gallon pond.

Frog collector?

You live in the midwest? My grandparents built a pond in their backyard when they finally settled down. My uncles have been building, rebuilding, repairing, refilling, and cleaning it ever since...

Three words: West Nile Virus!

10.5K gallon pond? wow, that sounds big!

Cat amusement center.

I sure hope so, and turtles!



Nope, northeast, good old Jersey . I love working in the yard so can't wait .



Yeah my neighbors thought I was putting in a pool when I started digging it...haha. I'm gonna get lots of mosquito fish, but you usually only have problems in stagnant water.

What...... you too cheap to fill up an 11,000 gallon pond or something???

Been a long few weeks. I finished wiring all the surrounds and mounting them to the ceiling. Also installed the couch onto the floating platform with two butt-kickers . I really think I only needed one, just I only have them turned up to a 1/4 volume. Any higher and its just obnoxious...lol.



However I did run into the problem with the TV which has prevented me from finishing. The dam thing buzzes so loud on bright color scenes. Now I know all plasmas buzz, but I should not be able to here if from the next room over with the volume at a moderate level. So called Panasonic and they picked up the TV this past Friday. They are sending me a new one and gave me a 42" loner in the meantime. Hopefully I get it by next week and its quiet!

Oh and while it is off the wall I plan on lowering it down to the top of the mantle and putting the center speaker above the TV .

Than I can finally be done!! Well with the living room anyway...lol.

I just found this thread and it is cool to watch your project develop.

I started to wonder, how can he buy all this cool stuff on a teacher's salary? Then it struck me that if I didn't have a wife and two kids, I could afford twice as many toys on half the salary .

I thought buttkickers were for people with inadequate subs. It seems like you just got them to rub it in!

Looks great!

Do Teachers in the States not make much? There's always jokes about Teachers salaries but up in Canada Teachers do pretty well, I think. Here's a shot from an Ontario school board... Link

I think starting salary for teachers down here is probably around 35K. They might get up to 50K, maybe, but that's completely a guess. So no, they don't do all that well.

It depends on the school district and more on the state. My wife's sister and husband are both teachers in southern California, both have 10+ years in the classroom and both have masters degrees. Both make $85k+. 12 years ago when we lived in SoCal my wife made $50k as a teacher. Here in LA, when my wife was teaching in the public system, with a masters and 10+ years, she made $42k. Mississippi is about $38k for that background. But the flip side is that our house is 1/4 or less the cost of a similar home in SoCal.

I guess it's all relative.

Scott

I'd like to make more money. Tell me how.

I did hear on the radio that this part of Washington has the lowest cost of living in all of Washington, so at least we have that going for us.

Hahah, I do alright as a teacher. If you really want to know this year I am doing 78k, but I teach an extra period this year also and we get a stipend of 12k for it. However, I have been a teacher since I was 22 and I lived at home till I was 30 and did not have a single bill besides my cell phone. That's really the reason I was able to buy a house and blow so much money. Having no kids and being single also helps .

Clearly things are a little better than I thought. Still, given what you have to put up with...

Yah I do want to pull my hair out sometimes at work, 150 teenagers can take it's toll on you...lol.

If they're really good, it only takes two, er, or so I've heard.

Okay finally getting my 65" plasma back, I have the chance to mount it lower. Here is a quick mock up...



Not sure what to do, when I am reclined a bit, the one on the left is perfect. If I am sitting straight up my eyes look higher, but I am really not craning my neck back. I think it look a little better to with the speaker under it. What do you guys think?

Unless there's an obvious neck-craning issue, how it sounds will tell you what you need to know. Is there an easy way to test both configurations?

It sounds great the way it is with the speaker on the bottom. Yeah its pretty simple to take it off the wall and lower it, I don't need to unscrew the wall mount and move it or anything. The front speaker will have to be mounted to the wall though obviously. I think I may try it at the higher mount for a bit longer. The couch is 4" higher than it was before because of the platform it is on, and I also have about 3-4" more that I could go down with the TV, so it kisses the top of the front speaker. Maybe that 7-8" will make a big difference. Guess I will have to see...lol.

Although I do have to say it looks a bit odd with the TV flush ontop of the mantle.

I think I'd prefer to have the TV a few inches higher rather than put the center channel up by the ceiling.

I like the speaker above the mantle better as well and if it sounds good there then keep it there.

I'd go with the TV up higher. Otherwise, you're likely to have a weird jump when the action pans across the front.