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Posted By: Listener Found an extra room. - 12/18/09 08:02 PM
I have an almost finished 13"x15" room in my basement. I never really thought of converting it into a HT room until yesterday. I had the hvac guy over giving me an estimate on redoing my heating and we talked about heating this not yet finished room. Then I saw the picture of BWEASNER's HT room and the wheels started spinning. It will be some time before I will be ready to do this, but I think you may end up seeing a new construction project in a little while. I will have a lot to research. Such as sound proofing projectors etc..

Currently I have the w22s, w150, qs8s and ep500 in my living room. This HT room would provide much more flexibility in terms of speaker placement, sound proofing, less space limitations etc.. I always wondered if I am missing out by not having towers.


I'm wondering in a room of those dimensions 13x15 should I go with towers or stick with m22s? For sub I will go with svs pb13-u.

How much can I expect to spend on a decent 1080p projector? How about screens? Isn't there special paint I could use to just paint the wall? What are the pros and cons of each?
Posted By: jakewash Re: Found an extra room. - 12/18/09 08:12 PM
A closed off room of only 13x15 and the PB13, there could be nothing left of the house \:\)

Nice choice. The PB13 U has some nice features that allow you tame its power and use it in any size room it will fit into. It has a nice smooth response, a bit drier sounding than the EP series and almost as flat.

The M22s will work great in that size room as will the M60/M80s, your choice here. I think if this is strictly for HT a tower might be unnecessary but I do love my M80s for that extra little bit more impact they offer for movies over the M22s. I think only you can decide if the extra costs are worth it. This might be a good time to order a set of M60s or M80s and compare them to the W22s to see what you are missing if anything and decide for yourself if the costs are warranted.
Posted By: BWeasner Re: Found an extra room. - 12/18/09 08:44 PM
Yay! I inspired someone! Dedicated basement home theater rooms are really kinda nice...they are sort of isolated from the rest of the house. I have to say that my project was a lot of fun, even though I spent about two months of near-sleepless nights because I was always thinking about details.

And don't forget to draw up a budget...then be sure to physically burn your budget sheet about a month into the project because you realize that it was totally wrong and worthless!

I think that sized space will be easy to fill with your M22s. I remember the first time I hooked up those speakers and the EP350. I didn't tell my wife that I was turning the system on, and I started to play NIN Year Zero. The sub caused the floors throughout the entire house to start vibrating! My wife threw open the basement door and started yelling "I don't know what the f*** is going on, but I think there's been an explosion outside!" Then she heard the rest of the music and then started yelling at me for buying such a loud system \:\) She has grown to love it over the past few months, though.

I personally would have loved to go with towers, but there is small (at least I hope it is small) chance that my basement could fill with some water. That is why my receiver has its own little 7" elevated stand ;\)
Posted By: audiosavant Re: Found an extra room. - 12/18/09 11:51 PM
 Originally Posted By: BWeasner
"I don't know what the f*** is going on, but I think there's been an explosion outside!"



"Nothing to fear dear, just doing some infrasound research down here in the lab."
Posted By: Listener Re: Found an extra room. - 12/19/09 01:37 AM
 Originally Posted By: BWeasner
Yay! I inspired someone!

Yeah you did. Where did most of your budget go?

The current setup is staying where it is. The HT will be a new purchase.
Posted By: BWeasner Re: Found an extra room. - 12/19/09 02:24 AM
By far, of course, most of the budget went to the AV equipment. About 75% of the budget went to the HDTV, TV stand, Blu-Ray Player, AV receiver, speakers, acoustic panels, and all the cables/wiring. The other 25% went to electrical, lighting, drywall, paint, etc etc etc...that was all relatively cheap because I did all the work myself. Unfortunately, all the sweat (and a fair amount of blood \:\) ) doesn't count in the budget.
Posted By: Micah Re: Found an extra room. - 12/19/09 02:29 AM
Oh sure it does. If you had contracted that job out, your budget would have had to have grown 300%. And that's no joke!
Posted By: Listener Re: Found an extra room. - 12/19/09 03:30 AM
 Originally Posted By: Micah
Oh sure it does. If you had contracted that job out, your budget would have had to have grown 300%. And that's no joke!


absolutely. I can do most of the work myself except for the hvac work. My Father In law will help me with the electical.

I will have to build a new sub floor since it is concrete. I have seen people build subfloors and fill them with sand. What is that all about? My basement has never flooded but it is possible it will flod some day. I'm not really sure what I should use for the flooring to make sure mold never grows in the event of a flood. Also I will have to sound proof the room to try to contain the sound in the HT room. As well as room treatments. Lots to reasearch. If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them.
Posted By: BWeasner Re: Found an extra room. - 12/19/09 11:15 PM
Listener-

For the longest time, I was going to build a subfloor (I have concrete floors as well). Then I really started adding up the cost and work involved (plus the loss of a couple of extra inches in room height...the ceilings were going to be low enough as it was).

Anyway, long story short, I found this prestretched carpet with foam padding already attached at our Menards home store (don't know if you have this store in your area) for $0.58 per square foot. The carpet is called KangaBack and while it is not the most luxurious carpet by any means, it does look and feel decent enough. All you have to do is tape (or glue) this carpet directly to the concrete...that is what is is made for! The foam padding is moisture and mold resistant.

I figured that IF my basement floods, I will just tear up the carpet and replace it. It cost me a whopping $150 and 2 hours worth of labor to install it. I could replace that floor about 4 times over for the cost of a subfloor and professional carpet installation!

Just something for you to think about. My basement floor has no seepage and I do run a dehumidifier (especially in the summer) to keep the humidity levels low. If you will be bringing conditioned air into that room, that will help as well.
Posted By: bridgman Re: Found an extra room. - 12/20/09 12:43 AM
I guess the nice thing about a subfloor is that it makes it easier for the subwoofer to give you that nice "floor shaking bass".

Anecdotal evidence suggests that you need at least 500W to shake a concrete slab ;\)
Posted By: CV Re: Found an extra room. - 12/20/09 12:52 AM
Can you just make a platform for the sub that's connected to a platform for the seating?
Posted By: Micah Re: Found an extra room. - 12/20/09 06:04 AM
Ok I had one very nasty experience in my last house where my home theater lived in my basement. After living in my houme for about 6 years I knew when it rained hard for several days there would be a leak spring up in the far corner of the house. It wasn't in the HT area, but directly behind it in the storage area. I was able to channel it harmlessly into a drain, so I didn't bother doing what the contracter said would have to be done, digging up the front yard down to the bottom of the basement wall to fix it from the outside. They said that was the only way to truely fix a leak, as patching it from the inside would only hold temporarily until the water found a different path to get inside. So for 6 years everything was hunky dory.

Then during a particually heavy storm our city sewer system became overloaded, and sewage flooded up through the floor drain and into the interior of my basement a foot deep. Our next door neighbor lady had lived in her house for 35 years, and she said that was the first time that had ever happened in that area. But it was enough to make me realize that you never know exactly what might happen. I was very angry when I found out that our 'full coverage' homeowners insurance did not include flood insurance... "but how can you call it 'FULL COVERAGE' if it doesn't cover everything"??? I protested. Guess that's why you have to read the fine print.

So anyway I tore out all the carpet in the basement, threw away the couch, coffee table and the Sony floor standing speakers I had at the time (no big loss) and started from scratch. I build a stage a foot and a half off of the floor that extended out about 3 feet from the false wall. That was where I put my new 65 inch rear projection TV, and my new Cerwin Vega towers speakers. But I too had very low ceilings in my basement, so I couldn't afford to put a subfloor throughout the entire bsement either. So under the rest of the HT area I laid this flooring that was only about a half inch thick. It looked like tile sort of, but the bottom was made up of several round nubs spaced out from eachother so that when you laid it down it would allow water to travel underneath them into a drain without soaking whatever flooring you put down (unless the water rose past a half inch). On top of that we had a pad and carpet laid and it was all very solid, felt as if it were sitting right on the concrete, but it had that water barrier built into it, and didn't take much of the ceiling height away at all.

The stage was just in case we had another major flood so the electronics wouldn't be in harms way. But that set-up worked just fine until I moved in with my fiancee here last year. Might be worth looking into if you have any moisture issues at all.
Posted By: BWeasner Re: Found an extra room. - 12/20/09 03:25 PM
Micah-

So sorry that you had to go through all that nonsense with the flooding and your insurance company...I know how frustrating that can be! I've only seen my basement flood once, and it was during a crazy torrential downpour. We had just moved into our house and the previous owners must not have cleaned out the gutters for years...the gutters overflowed the the water poured in through the basement window wells. On top of that, the sump pump that drains our basement failed at the same time so we had 3-4" of water in the basement when we started to pump it out.

I'm curious if it was the same storm system that caused the flooding in my house and your house (I live just to your south-west in Bloomington)...this would have been the spring of 2004.
Posted By: Listener Re: Found an extra room. - 12/20/09 06:16 PM
Micah. That sucks man. Sorry to hear you had to go through all that.

I just measured the ceiling height in this room and it is 93". I could easily put in a subfloor of 6" or so. My main reasons for wanting a subfloor are: Better sub performance, better insulation from the cold concrete floor.

My basement is ground level. Meaning it isn't actually under ground, it is a walk in basement. I've never had a water there but during the summer months is does get a little humid.
Posted By: Micah Re: Found an extra room. - 12/20/09 07:51 PM
Wow, it was indeed right around 6 years ago, so it's very possible that we both got flooded out by the very same storm. I hope your insurance company was more forthright than mine.
Posted By: BWeasner Re: Found an extra room. - 12/20/09 08:56 PM
Weird...I've lived in Indiana for all 30 years of my life and I have never seen it rain like that before! Ha!

Luckily we had nothing at all in the basement at that time (not even framed walls), so no damage done and no claims to file with insurance. It hurt my heart more than anything...here we move into our new home and the basement floods. I had no idea at the time if this was a once-in-a-lifetime deal or a common occurance that the previous owners didn't tell us about.

Anyway, I've totally hijacked this thread...enought about basement flooding (don't want to scare the Listener \:\) )
Posted By: Micah Re: Found an extra room. - 12/20/09 09:52 PM
Amen. We weren't home while it was storming, but I remember telling my wife at the time on our way home, "I wonder if the drain was able to handle all of that"? As soon as we got home I opened the door to the basement, flipped the light switch, and saw one of our magazine baskets floating around in what looked like 10 feet of water! I felt like crying. It's funny how it can create such an optical illusion. I called my dad and told him I had four or five feet of water standing in my basement. But when it was all said and done and we'd gotten all of the water out we measured the water line on the wall and it was just under 12 inches. Still, a foot of water is a TON of liquid to have to clean up... expecially when it has turds floating around in it.

The three of us on the end of the street that all found out we didn't have flood insurance got together and tried to get the city to throw us at least SOMETHING since the public sewer had failed. But we each got a letter from the city attourney saying that the city wasn't liable because they had adequate sewage. It wasn't 7 or 8 months after that incident that the headlines in our local paper was, "Inspector Determines Richmond Will Have To Spend 40 Million To Bring Current Sewer System Up To Acceptable Standards". The article went on to explain how everytime they built a new housing complex or expanded a neighborhood they failed to do the necessary changes to the sewer lines to compensate for it. My neighbors and I weren't surprised by this at all, we saw first hand the evidence of the problem.

Oh well, life goes on.
Posted By: Adrian Re: Found an extra room. - 12/21/09 02:59 AM
Micah, my brother has had virtually the same situation happen to his house. For 15 years he never had a problem with his basement flooding until they built more homes to the south of him. As a result, it changed the lay of the land and caused water to back up into the northern section of the development and caused several basements to flood during a heavy storm last year. This wasn't turd water though, just ground water. They had to redo all the ditches on his street by burying drainage socks underground in an effort to fix the problem. He's also added a second sump on the other side of the basement, for insurance since then.
Posted By: Micah Re: Found an extra room. - 12/21/09 06:05 AM
Sucks to be him. I hope he never has to fish turds out of his basement. Man was that ever a disgusting mess. Raw sewage is even worse in person than it sounds over the internet, trust me. I think if I ever found myself in that situation again I would rather burn my house down than clean up a foot of poop, pee, toilet paper and God knows what else. The smell was so horendous I thought I was going to have permanent brain damage afterwards.

The shocking thing was that the walls didn't hold the smell in at all. Like I said we trashed just about everything we had down there at the time. Carpet, furniture, tv cabinet, speakers, you name it. But the walls downstairs weren't drywalled, they were cedar planks, looked sort of like barn siding or something. I loved the rustic look of it, but I could have sworn I was going to have to tear it all out and replace it because I figured they would have smelled to high heaven after soaking in sewage for a day. But that wasn't the case thankfully. After ripping everything else out of there, cleaning the floors and everything else heavily, and laying new carpet down and bringing new furniture in and everything, you could never tell what it had been through.

I was pretty amazed!
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