HT Only reccommendations>

Posted by: madjak

HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 01:40 AM

Hi All,

I have a small, rectangular Home Theatre room 12 foot by 15 foot, 8 feet high. The Seats are at one end of the room and the screen at the other. The surround speakers need to be on the wall about 3 feet in front of the seats which is why I am looking at dipole/multipole sides.

This is just used for gaming, movies and TV. We listen to music on a dedicated 2ch system in another room. Only 5.1.

I am thinking of the epic grand master in wall solution - inwall speakers will free up some room in there.

What are peoples thoughts/experiences?
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 07:56 AM

Can you ceiling mount the surrounds or place them on the back wall to keep them from being 3 feet in front of you?

My couch is against my back living room wall, and due to placement issues ( no wall on left side and brick fireplace wall on the right) I had to place my QS8's on the back wall. They are spread out fairly far and are about 6 feet off the ground.

They sound great!
Posted by: Potatohead

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 01:54 PM

I think you would be pleased. I have a similar setup in a larger room (closed 19 x 12) and the in walls are great. I would recommend upgrading to the EP350 sub though, and the W150 center channel if you are going to be using it for HT.
Posted by: madjak

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 03:16 PM

Terzaghi,

Unfortunately I can't move the side speaker locations or go through the ceiling. There is a massive steel girder in the ceiling that is insurmountable and the wells on either side have a door/window in the way. I need to leave the side/rear speakers where they are.

Thanks for the advice, potatohead. Do you think the QS8s for the surrund speakers or would the QS4s cut it?
Posted by: Potatohead

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 03:58 PM

 Originally Posted By: madjak
Terzaghi,

Unfortunately I can't move the side speaker locations or go through the ceiling. There is a massive steel girder in the ceiling that is insurmountable and the wells on either side have a door/window in the way. I need to leave the side/rear speakers where they are.

Thanks for the advice, potatohead. Do you think the QS8s for the surrund speakers or would the QS4s cut it?



In that size room the QS4 is probably ok, but I do know that Axiom recommends the QS8's with the M/W22's if you look at the Home Theater packages. They use a matched driver and I assume the crossover points are closer matched, but you may want to check with Axiom to find out exactly why. I think if it boiled down to it, and it's mostly HT use, you would be better off putting a few more bucks in the center channel as the first upgrade, the sub second, and then into surrounds third. I personally have a W22/W150/QS8 setup with an SVS sub (kind of midway between EP350 and EP500), and I love it. I don't think I would miss much with QS4's to be honest, but it's not a huge price difference.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 04:11 PM

I was wondering about center channel with 2 W22's. Wouldn't the W100 be a better match for these, since they each have 2 mids and 1 tweeter? That's what I'm planning for the living room in about 2 months from now. The only downside to this seems to be that the centers are way below ear level and you can't tilt up using the W100 with it flush mounted on the wall. Perhaps what's needed is for Axiom to make some sort of wedge shaped bracket for these (hint, hint). I'll probably just have to up the volume on the W100 or exchange them for the W150 if it doesn't sound right.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 04:15 PM

You could build a box that mounts to and in the wall that has the proper angle for the W100 to sit in.
Posted by: Potatohead

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 04:36 PM

I have posted my solution to this problem with the center a couple times, so I won't post it again (do a search) but I can see if someone wasn't building a wall or something similar, it could pose a problem.

Either center works fine, the main difference being that if you sit more than 12' from the speaker, or have off some seating off to the sides, you're better off with the larger W150.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 04:42 PM

I know there's a lot of duplication, but the search function here leaves a lot to be desired. I rarely find what I'm looking for when using it.
Posted by: Potatohead

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 04:48 PM

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...true#Post285297 , In the middle of that page.

\:\)
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 05:12 PM

Ah,now I see what you did. I didn't notice that the first time I looked at the picture. No, that won't work for me. To make it look right, I would have to make a bracket out of wood and attach it to the wall somehow. It would look best if I painted the bracket the same color as the wall. But it would be "nice" if Axiom had a pre-made bracket just for this purpose, that was adjustable as to how much angle you need. But I guess that is just wishful thinking.
Posted by: Potatohead

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 05:17 PM

I know what you mean, building some angled mounts like that was my second option, and really the only way to do it if you have a flat wall. It really would not be hard to do though, you would just have to make sure you didn't make the fatter (outside) part of the bracket so thick that you could no longer pinch it and the drywall with the speaker bracket. I guess you could always get longer screws for the speaker bracket if you had to.

(If you don't actually have the W's in hand this may not make sense, but once you see the bracket, it does).
Posted by: jakewash

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 05:17 PM

But really once you push the speaker out from the wall with the box, no longer that streamline look, you might as well just run the VP100 on the FMB and have it fully adjustable.
Posted by: Potatohead

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 05:19 PM

True enough, but you should be able to build a bracket less than 1/2" thick or so on the fat side, dependant obviously on how much tilt you need. Seeing as how most people would be looking down at the speaker from 10+ feet back, I doubt many people would even notice.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 05:21 PM

Nah, that would ruin the look, I'm thinking that only about 1/2 to one inch extra at the bottom would probably be enough.

You beat me to it, my reply is to the one above the last message.

Also, I have a lot of left over laminate flooring. It's thin and really tough. I bet it would make really good bracket material.
Posted by: madjak

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 05:26 PM

Great setup pototohead,

Can anyone see any issues with having the center speaker mounted from the ceiling pointing down towards the audience?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 05:36 PM

Someone recently mentioned they had that setup(centre above). Was it Micah? I've never tried an above mount, but I believe several guys have done so without problems here.
Posted by: madjak

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 05:45 PM

Ok,

I'm leaning towards the FMBs with the M22s, an EP350, VP150 and the QS8s.

Using the FMBs with everything, but the Sub - this way I have less messing around getting the inwalls at the correct location.

I can move the seats forward so the side speakers are within the 90 -100 degree range. The only reason the seat has moved to the back wall is because we need more space when using the nintendo Wii. Without moving the couch back we end up hitting each other, which whilst we are competitive, the Wii is meant to be non contact.

One More question. Should I get the FMBs for the QS8s, so i can move them towards the back wall when we have the couch at the back wall? Would this still sound OK?


Posted by: jakewash

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 06:18 PM

Flat speaker wire for sub? Are you not using the sub out on the receiver? It should just be a coax cable running to the sub.
Posted by: madjak

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 06:40 PM

Sorry, revised post. Forgot about Coax cable for sub

My only remaining question now is about the QS8 mounting.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 06:47 PM

I don't think there is a need to "aim" the QS8's in any direction. I think mounting them flat on the wall with the supplied T Bracket will be fine. The QS8's are really forgiving with placement and sound excellent.

Maybe someone who has used the FMB with QS8's can chime in, but that is my 2 cents.
Posted by: Potatohead

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 07:09 PM

I agree, although personally being a perfectionist I would want the QS8's at least point mostly towards the seated area, although in reality at movie listening volume it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

As far as the center goes, if you can put it above, go for it. Nothing wrong with that at all. The only disadvantage I can see is if you have carpet, you'll get more reflection off the ceiling if it's above as opposed to the carpet (none) when it's mounted on the bottom. If you have multiple rows of seating like a theater type seating, on top would disperse better to the back row.
Posted by: cb919

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 07:10 PM

Welcome madjak,
I have the W-series with QS8's the same as Potatohead. I did simply flat mount mine as per the instructions. However before I went ahead with the purchase I emailed Alan regarding the aiming issue. His response was that he did all of his listening with the W's flat mounted as per standard installation before he deemed them 'similarly good' to the M series. And even though my W150 is a bit low (seat height) I have no issues at all and am thoroughly pleased with the sound and intelligibility of my setup.

All that being said, I would go with M series with FMB's over the W's if it's an option for you. Quite simply any on wall solution will have some sort of compromise compared to their full size counterpart. That just wasn't an option for me.

As for the QS8 mounting - I would go ahead and wall mount them with the included T brackets. As has already been mentioned, they are very forgiving in placement, they do not need to be aimed (especially in a smaller room) and you save some $ on not buying 2 more FMB's.

Let us know what you decide on, but I'm pretty confident you'll be happy with any Axiom setup!

Cheers,
Posted by: Potatohead

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 07:12 PM

Keep in mind too, I did not mount my W's the way I did because I was worried about dispersion, I was worried that the centerline of the speaker was only about 9 - 10" from the side wall. I still do want to get some paneling up there, in due time. If you were not forced to put them so close to the side walls, I see no issue.
Posted by: madjak

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 07:30 PM

Thanks everyone. The axioms pass one major test - community support - that's for sure.

I think I'll go for the M22s with the FMBs - need to talk to boss first on that one - I know she's real keen on having an inwall solution, but then again she doesn't want me punching any more holes either...

I'll flat mount the QS8s and if I need some FMBs later I will do so.

I am assuming the M22s are much better for home theatre than the M2s or M3s - are they just for music?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 07:34 PM

A better speaker is a better speaker, plain 'n' simple.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/11/10 08:45 PM

 Originally Posted By: madjak
Thanks everyone. The axioms pass one major test - community support - that's for sure.


So we are good for something besides thread derailing after all!
Posted by: madjak

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/12/10 12:21 AM

Ok,

the deal is looking the the Epic Grand Master 350 Package with 3 FMBs.

I will just wait for the Canadians to come back online tomorrow before placing the final order.

Maybe they can send some snow down as well with the package to Australia for us?

Posted by: madjak

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/12/10 09:51 PM

Ok,

Thank you to everyone here for their assistance.

I have just pulled the trigger. I got 2 M22s, 2 QS8s and a Vp150 with 3 FMBs.

I decided to hold off on the Sub and will see how I go with my existing Jamo for the time being.

So now it's time to finish off the HT room in time for the speakers to arrive.

Photos will be forthcoming if all goes well.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/12/10 10:32 PM

Congrats and enjoy!!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/13/10 01:37 PM

Nice, looking forward to the pictures \:\)
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: HT Only reccommendations> - 01/28/10 01:15 PM

Concerning a side issue talked about earlier in this thread, about mounting a W100 on the wall, but angling it upwards a bit by using a home made bracket. There is a danger here that I want to point out because I did try something like this when I mounted the W100 in the wall this weekend.

The backside of the wall bracket that holds the speaker goes flush with the wall and doesn't move from this flush position, but the outer half of the bracket, with it bent at an angle upward creates an angle that will trap the speaker after sliding it into the hole making it nearly impossible to get the speaker back out of the wall.