Hi everyone looking at a sub for music, would like to stay around the one grand mark or less. I have a HSU STF-1 in the bedroom with my Axioms good little sub, and a Paradigm DSP-3200 in the media room good for movies not music. I have looked on the net at the HSU VTF-1 & VTF-2 MK3. The other ones are the Elemental Design A3s-250, & A5s-300. I'm looking for a sub that is clean and tight to fill my room, the room is about 2,550 cuft. Any advice on any others would be great.
Thanks Steve

Just a side note the sub will be paired with a 5.0 ATC speakers I'm going with the SCM 19's front L/R, C3C center, and SCM 11's for the side speakers.
Thanks Steve

I suspect that any of those will work well. 2,500 cu.ft. isn't a huge space, and most music doesn't go below 40 Hz. Instruments like the Bassoon, double bass and Piano will reach into the 30s. Only the pipe organ and Synth will go below 20Hz.

Well I could guess they would fill the room, but how do they sound.

Sorry, I don't have any experience with those subs, but there are a few HSU owners here amongst the regulars.

No problem the HSU and the Paradigm are the only two I know about so any input would be great. I like the HSU but I think that the sealed ED sub would work better for music but I don't know never listened to it. Thanks Steve

I really think you could do well with either one. I have a Hsu and a eD sub right now. If you're not looking for sheer output either manufacturer makes a fine product. It is my opinion that eD offers a bit more for the money than Hsu does.

I was looking at the A5s-300 but after talking to the folks at eD I chose the A3-300 instead.

Thanks I just read your post on the ed and hsu, I think I will try one of the ed subs.
Thanks Steve

I think you will be pleased.

I might even go with two of the sealed 10's or maybe one 12 I will call them Monday and see what they say.
Thanks Steve

Well I must start out by saying that I've never heard an eD sub in person. But before my EP800 sprang back to life eD was definately the front runner as far as what I was going to go with next. They seem to give a lot of performance for the money, and I've yet to hear an unfavorable review by anyone who had owned one.

Also, the EP800 is sealed, and it delivers musical notes flawlessly. So yes, I would look into a seal subwoofer as well if I were you. Not that you can compare the EP800 to anything in the sub $1000 dollar price range fairly, but the sealed design sure as hell works better than my ported sub ever did.

I would like to spend more on a sub but after what I spent on the ATC speakers I think the wife would filp. I have read a little about the ed's and for the money why not, hell my paradigms sold fast. I will try one of the sealed ones or two and let everyone know what I think. Thanks Steve

I am surprised you say the Paradigm DSP 3200 is not so good with music. I have tried the DSP 3100 and thought it was very good for music, certainly better suited to my tastes than the STF 3 I have heard.

Do you have your subs properly calibrated ?

I read that with some curiousity as well(DSP3200 not good for music). My 3400 works well for both movies and music.

Its possible I didn't have the dsp cal right tried different setting crossover points, it never float my boat for music now for movies it was great better than my hsu in the bedroom. To say that it is good for both not for me

I would like to add paradigm speakers shine with movies where Axiom does well with both that is why I sold the paradigm and kept the Axiom. Sure you can pay a lot more for the studio which I think Axiom are just as good for a lot less. Nothing wrong with paradigm I'm more music than movies. So I would take the trade off for a sub for music than movies. Thanks Steve

Just an update I talked to the guys at ED and I might try out one of there 18" subs the A7s-450. They say it is very musical and a lot of headroom with that amp.
Thanks, Steve

Did you ask them about sealed vs ported in reg'ds to music? it'd be interesting to hear what they have to say.

They told me that it was a personal taste if you like the sound of a sealed sub then you might not like a ported sub and the same if you like a ported sub. He did say that a ported sub will play louder, then he told me about the A7s-450 and said it was very impressive and should look at that one.
Thanks Steve

Why do I get the feeling you are looking for that elusive chest slam/punch sound so many like from the bar/dance scene. This area of sound is in the 50-80hz range and it is produced mostly from your mains as it is generally in the roll off area of the crossover points. I could get a ton of punch when I ran the M80s with the A1400, no sub required.

Jumping up to the 18" driver just lowers the tuning point and gives better low end response, IMO.

That is funny but no. I posted it to see what other ideas are out there. I do like my little hsu with just a 8" driver. I think I like the smaller subs. Like I have said I only have had two subs that I can say anything about. I'm still leaning to the 2-10's. Plus the 18" need its own power supply, I would like to try to stay away from that. So any ideas would be great thanks Steve

Does ED offer a trial period? if they do, it would be a great way to try one or more of their subs to see what you prefer.

That is a good idea, I see svs is coming out with some sealed subs might be worth the wait
Thanks Steve

how well a sub plays music has nothing to do with whether its sealed or ported, but everything to do with the quality of design.

How you perceive that quality probably has a lot to do with what you have heard in the past and were convinced sounded good.

Lots of people want a sub that will pound or give lots of slam/impact. As Jay pointed out, that comes from a boost in certain frequencies.

All of Axioms subs sound very good with music because they apply the same design philosophy to their subs as is applied to the speakers: play clean and flat through the designed operating range.

The SVS upped the bar when they released the PB13 and I expect that HSU and ED have followed with their most recent offerings.

What is the consumption wattage for the A7s-450?

I agree withe Fred, it's all about how well the sub, ported or not, is designed.

Yup. It actually lasts until you start taking pills to end it.

Apple guy: there's an app for that, as it were ...

Anyone heard an Epik or Rhythmik sub, they don't get suggested as often as several otf the other players.

Never heard either but they are highly regarded by those in the sub forum on AVS, not sure if that is a good thing

My understanding is Epik is very similar to Elemental Designs.

Gieseman, you say you like the smaller subs, I would agree they are better suited for music, well, easier to blend with the mains anyway, I would seriously try the DSP 3100 I mentioned earlier it is a terrific smallish sub for a very reasonable price. I felt it was excellent for music just lacked the air moving qualities of the bigger subs for HT. I would also suggest the Axiom EP400, not cheap, but one of the best 'music only' subs I have heard.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it has nothing to do with it. There are pro's and con's with both designs.

It's sort of like saying there's no difference between 4 and 8 cylinder engine's. Sure design can help a 4 cylinder Lotus run as fast or faster than an 8 cylinder Mustang. Like wise they've come a long way in designing some of the newer 8 cylinder engines to run as efficiently or even more efficiently than many 4 cylinder cars on the road today.

But the fact remains, it's easier to make power with 8 cylinders, and easier to be efficient with 4.

Take a sub box, it is easier to get more volume with less power if your box is ported. Conversely it's easier to get tighter bass out of a sealed box. Putting money into the parts and the design will even these traits out similar to engine performance. So if you're willing to pay a lot on your sub then it probably won't matter.

But if you're on a budget and can't sink very much money into your bass and are looking for a musical sub I'd suggest looking at sealed designs. If you're more about huge explosions shaking the couch during a movie then a ported sub will most likely do the job better.

This at least has been what I've experienced with low priced subwoofers. Like I've mentioned in the past, before I discovered Axiom, I considered $1000 as an extreme amount to spend on a single sub unit. Most of the equipment I'd ever had/heard before that was in the $250 - $500 dollar range.

But I have to say, spending $500 dollars with an internet company like Elemental Design's, SVS or HSU will get you 2 to 3 times the performance than you could ever get spending the same money at a big box store.

The guys who design speakers and drivers disagree with you. The size of the driver will place some limitations on how high or low in frequency it will reach, but even there, design will affect what the driver can do.

When I use the expression 'tight bass', I'm not talking frequency. I'm refering to a subs ability to follow a musical note clearly and accurately.

The ports on a box allow for more air moved per watt used. Sealing a box creates a spring effect inside the box that helps the driver rebound quicker per watt used.

These examples are for equal power supplies pushing equally efficient drivers.

Thanks for all the input guys. I know I'm over thinking the sealed vs ported sub so I ordered the atc scm 40 floor stander. When they get here I will see how they do and maybe that will help. I do agree there is pluses with both designs and I know there are some good subs out their for a good price. Yes I agree you get over the $1,000 plus mark and it opens up a bit more. A side note my epson 8500ub should be here today and the carada screen tomorrow I went with a 102". Thanks again Steve

Movie night at Gieseman's tomorrow!