the bestest setup ???

Posted by: TroyD

the bestest setup ??? - 03/04/10 08:40 AM

Other than running seven M-80's and or three M-80's across the front stage..... the next best setup would be .....

L/R = M-80
Centre = VP150 or the New (hopefully matching VP-80, or whatever it maybe called)

Side Rears = QS-8's
Rears = M22's

Oh and a sub naturally possibly two EP-500's
is this correct

Posted by: SirQuack

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/04/10 09:16 AM

depends, everyone is different, some prefer Qs8's for the "side" AND "rear" channels. For the front stage, matching speakers id ideal, I don't have a problem with the VP150 matching, but some do...so another matching M80, or vertical ??????? would be ideal.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/04/10 10:56 AM

M80s L/R with a horizontally designed ?80 for the centre with QS8s as surrounds and rears would be my preferred setup, but 7.1 would be overkill in my present room.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/04/10 11:31 AM

M80s across the front, QS8's or M80s as side surrounds/rears depending on spacial requirements. I find if you have at least 4-6' (preferably even more) of space between the listening area and speaker, a direct radiator(M22/M80 ar the like) works as good or better(rear channel, IMO) than the QS8's, but most people do not have this kind of room so the QS series of speaker wins every time.
Posted by: TroyD

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/04/10 12:18 PM

Yeh, right now my plan is
I am going from the M80's ..someday
but I was thinking if the M22 are the perferred setup for a rear channel, then I would start with a pair of m22's so atleast I can hook them up and listen to something other than tv audio.
then order a sub, next would be the M80's.then a centre channel , then my QS8's for sides.

But, if QS8's are better for a rear channel then buying the M22's would be a waste of money and I may as well start out with the M80's, now
\
doing the 80's on the layaway plan actually most of it, atleast I will get everything over time
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/04/10 12:23 PM

Speaking of layaway, I was thinking about doing that, but it seems they really want a planned payment schedule. My problem is some months I have more free cash than others. I was thinking instead of buying gift certificates for myself. A hundred here, 300 there, until I have enough to place a 5-piece order, or if I get impatient, just take a pair of M80s or what ever alone.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/04/10 01:23 PM

Buying GC's for yourself is a great idea to tie up funds for that Axiom purchase. I purchased my M80s on layaway, provided a reasonable downpayment and let the equal monthly payments work their magic till I saved up enough to pay for them earlier than planned for \:\)
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/04/10 01:54 PM

 Originally Posted By: troyd
Yeh, right now my plan is
I am going from the M80's ..someday
but I was thinking if the M22 are the perferred setup for a rear channel, then I would start with a pair of m22's so atleast I can hook them up and listen to something other than tv audio.
then order a sub, next would be the M80's.then a centre channel , then my QS8's for sides.

But, if QS8's are better for a rear channel then buying the M22's would be a waste of money and I may as well start out with the M80's, now
\
doing the 80's on the layaway plan actually most of it, atleast I will get everything over time


Like others have said, I think it does depend on your room layout and your personal taste. Some like to have a diffuse surround field while others prefer a more directional surround field. Sometimes your room layout and seating arrangement will dictate what type of speakers will sound best.
Posted by: grunt

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/04/10 03:04 PM

As Randy said itís very much a matter of opinion and as Jay said itís also a matter of circumstances. First off what size is your room and how far is the seating going to be from the various speakers?

My room is 13x21x8-12 (vaulted) my closest seating is 12í from the front 8í from the back and 3í from the sides to the nearest seat.

L/R - IMO would best be M80/M60/M22 but nothing smaller. Because of distance and preferring 2ch music w/o a sub I went with the M80s. The M60 would also work and according to some who have them are a little less forward than the M80s. Iíve also tried the M22s up front with a sub but IMO at this distance/room size they start sounding a little thin but in a smaller room sitting closer IĎd be hard press to tell them apart from the M80s when crossed over to a sub.

C - IMO an identical center to the L/R is ideal. An M22 is also a very good match for the M80s. My preference is for vertical centers especially the farther away I sit. Up close the center soundstage can collapse to the center speaker for some multi-channel material. With PLII/Neo:6 thereís a setting to spread out the center channel to the mains preventing this. I most prefer a vertical center for music as I feel it gives better imaging if you have the room for proper placement. OTOH a horizontal center like the VP150/100 can work better especially for movies and when sitting up close by spreding out the center of the soundstage making the whole front soundstage more seamless. IMO what to use is very much a matter of what you can fit, planned uses and personal preferences. Best way to find out is to order and audition sever candidates and just keep the winner.

Side L/R - QS8s or QS4s depending on room size. Iíve never liked direct radiators on the sides since Iíve heard the QS8s as they IMO better diffuse the side soundstage blending it between the front and rear. Mind you the farthest Iíve every had my side surrounds from the nearest seat is about 5í.

Back L/R - QS8s/QS4s or M22/M3/M2. As Jay says this depends a lot on distance for me. At the current 8í I actually prefer direct radiators but thing the M22s are overkill and plan to order a couple M2s. The only time I would prefer the M22 in the back is if I needed to go with a lower crossover to avoid localizing bass sent to the rears with the subwoofer but IMO thereís just not enough low bass in the rear channels to warrant that right now. Also with QS8 side surrounds Iíve found in my 2 smaller rooms the back speakers added nothing and didnít even use them.

Wide L/R - something closely matching the L/R mains but one step smaller. The M22s are a perfect match for the M80s and I suspect the M60s. I imagine the M2s would be a perfect match for the M22s.

Height L/R - QS8s or QS4. I know DSX recommends direct radiators here (and even as surrounds) but my experience is that the height channel is 100% ambient and perfect for the QS design. IMO the QS8 is overkill for this roll and the less expensive QS 4 would blend with anything just as good.
I know thereís a little more than you asked for but others might be reading this and also by thinking about what various speakers you might want in the future say as height or wide which IMO both add more the back speakers you might better be able to buy now with an upgrade path in mind. Nothing wrong with buying M22s as mains + center then upgrading to M80 mains later and moving the M22s to the wide position. Other purchase w/upgrade options are possible depending on youíre need/recourses.

Cheers,
Dean


P.S. Put your money in a save investment like a money market fund and at least earn interest off it. I deffered buying a better projector and some other equipment a year ago and put the money in stocks. I now have 30% more then a year ago. Though Iíd call stocks iffy right now should you need to use the money soon, but at least you could make a little bit in a safe investment.



Posted by: TroyD

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/04/10 07:48 PM

Thanks Grunt

THAT's what I was looking for, room eventually will be that size. The front row me sitting will be about 12' from the from and 8' to the back I like the QS8's to the sides for disspertion.
Posted by: grunt

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/04/10 11:35 PM

You said ďfront rowĒ which implies you are planning more than one row of seats. In that case you may benefit more from QS speakers in the back if your back row of seats will be closer to the wall. I havenít experimented with back speakers and multiple rows of seats but my feeling is that QS speakers might sound better. Be interesting to hear from anyone who has experimented with direct radiating and multi-polar speakers with multiple rows of seating.

Iím fine with using one EP500 in my room which also has an adjoining kitchen/dinning area of almost equal sized. Makes more than enough base for me. At some point I might consider a second subwoofer mostly to even out the bass I cant get it where I like with placement and room treatments. Also a second EP500 cost a lot less than a second EP600/800. The EP500 even shakes my seating if I want it to but for the ground shaking bass I prefer the Buttkicker especially now that I have dual configurable subwoofer outputs on my receiver. IMO the Buttkickerís shaking/rumbling feels much more real than that induced by a subwoofer.
Posted by: CV

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/05/10 02:11 AM

Dean, if you ever have the chance to audition some D-BOX Motion Code furniture, I'd like to hear how its shaking ability compares to the Buttkicker's.
Posted by: grunt

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/05/10 02:43 AM

Looks interesting Charles. At first I wondered how they could time the movement to the onscreen action but the explanation is they have to code it. Iíd love to try something like that out but Iíd be hard pressed to buy it unless the coding became a standard on all movies and video games and not something aftermarket.
Posted by: CV

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/05/10 02:52 AM

Yeah, it's not standard, but I do see the logo occasionally on Blu-rays and I think, awww, I want my furniture to be possessed by a demon. I'd jump right in if it didn't cost so much. Here's hoping they can get the price down enough to make it feasible for more people, or it will never be standard.
Posted by: grunt

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/05/10 02:59 AM

Iíll have to start looking for the logo. I should read more on it. Do you know if it has to be coded onto the disk or is it downloadable separately?

I imagine itís going to be tough to get good market penetration with something like that. As compared to a tactile transducer which can be retrofitted to existing furniture and uses the existing audio track.
Posted by: CV

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/05/10 03:12 AM

This can be installed in existing furniture at certain locations. I don't think the place closest to me offers that service, though.

I'm going to have to read more, too, since I don't know if it has to be coded onto the disc. You'd think they'd allow downloadable files for added value, and considering how extensive the list is on their site, you'd think a lot of those were added after the fact.
Posted by: Gieseman

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/05/10 09:06 AM

Troy I would say as far as your back speakers if you listen to more music then movies direct might be a good way to go. If you are about half the Q's are hard to beat they are good for music too. I tried my M22's in the back of the room as surrounds in a 5.1 set up about 8 1/2 feet away they were not as diffused as the Q's but worked great. I felt like it served both rows in my room better the M22's image well. So it is just personal taste so yes if you had the room I would say F/R 80's VP 150 center, and M22's rear.
Thanks Steve
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/05/10 09:54 AM

 Originally Posted By: CV
This can be installed in existing furniture at certain locations. I don't think the place closest to me offers that service, though.

The have a platform on which you can place your furniture, or the motion system can be integrated into it.

 Originally Posted By: CV
I'm going to have to read more, too, since I don't know if it has to be coded onto the disc. You'd think they'd allow downloadable files for added value, and considering how extensive the list is on their site, you'd think a lot of those were added after the fact.

There are some discs which have the "Motion Codes" included on them. But even those have to be placed into an DVD/BD drive in the Motion Controller, and integrated with the database stored there. Older Motion Controllers didn't have BD drives at all, and it's still an option in the newer models. The Motion Controller also has an Ethernet interface which it can use to download Codes from the Internet. Codes are added daily, and are usually available at the time of a disc's release. On purchase users get a 1 year subscription to the Code updates, it has to be renewed (by 1 or 4 years) after that.

The way it knows which disc you're currently playing is by watching the Dolby Digital or DTS bitstream from an optical connection. It has to be doing some fancy DB work, because it often takes only 5 seconds to synchronize with any part of a film. It's probably not a big deal to hook up a DVD player, just use it's optical out. But on Blu-ray, many players don't have the optical out active when using HDMI for audio, or don't provide the core bitstream, but down-mixed 2-channel PCM (which the Motion Controller won't recognize). So DVD is pretty much flawless, but BD support can present problems depending on your hardware.

I keep reading up on the system, only to once again see the price, and stop.
Posted by: grunt

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/05/10 11:48 AM

Thanks Chris. Sounds like this stuff is already a lot more refined than I realized. Have you tried it out?
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/05/10 12:11 PM

No, I haven't been able to try it out in person yet. As I said, I've read a lot about it, including every first-hand account I've come across. If you like the idea of tactile inducers (which I do), then this is really a step above that. In fact, if the D-Box can't find a matching Motion Code, it can fall back to vibration only, and function much like a ButtKicker.
Posted by: CV

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/05/10 12:21 PM

Thanks for the information, Chris. I'll have to look at D-BOX again after I move my system to the basement and have a projector. It seems like it would be a lot of fun.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: the bestest setup ??? - 03/08/10 04:41 PM

I always laugh a little when I hear references to D-Box, as my 15 year old sub was made by D-Box which is where they got their start.