First I want to extend a huge thank-you to jakewash for opening his beautiful home and sweet theater to myself and my friend- a couple of complete strangers introduced to him through this forum. He welcomed us in and proceeded to stun us with his Axiom setup. Both my friend and I left his house sold on Axiom. We are both setting up systems in the basements of our homes which we are developing and have both decided on M80's, VP150, and QS8's in the back. Neither of us currently knows which subs we are going to buy. I'm leaning towards the EP600 or SVS and my buddy isn't sure what he wants.

I'm very excited about my future purchase and it was hugely helpful to actually see the speakers in person and finally hear them!!

So if any of you guys/gals have recommendations on subs I'm open. I will actually have a small room (12x16), but I want to error on the side of overkill, rather than upgrade later - which I'll probably never be allowed to do

Thanks again to jakewash and everyone else on this forum who I've been learning from.

John

Ps. I love the 'light maple' but I seem to be in the minority!

You are most welcome and it was a pleasure to meet you and Nathan.

Glad to hear you have decided on Axiom and I would recommend either the EP600/800 from Axiom or one like mine as they are all great subs. I had my system in a room that was 12x16 but open to another 12x16 area in a 'L' shape in my old house. It all worked quite well crammed in there inspite of the corner loaded front stage. I always wanted to renovate to have the system flat on a wall but the new house works that much better

You are welcome to drop by anytime if you want to listen again or try the M22's.

Dual EP800s would do nicely then.

Honestly, there are a lot of choices out there from Axiom to SVS (or Epik, or ED, or HSU) to DIY. If you are thinking overkill I would not go with less than the EP600.

FWIW, I will be building a horn loaded sub using a 6.5" driver that should reach ~95 db in my small room and be flat to 25Hz: an amazing accomplisnment for such a small driver. This will be a just for fun project while I figure out how to use the driver for bass augmentation in my car.

Once you have it figured out let me know so I can change out the drivers in the Rav4.

There is a guy over at DIYMA that posted his impressions of the driver as a midbass in his doors yesterday. He was pretty happy.

I would be looking to use it to extend down into the 30s or 40s. Its gonna be quite a while (probably a year) before I get to this as I have to change out the head unit and add an amp to do this. I have a few other projects to take care of first. I picked up the driver so soon to take advantage of the introductory $45 price. He is now charging $70.

I am like you, far too many projects on the go and I am procrastinating right now. Just try to remember to let me know how it works out when you get it done.

I will post here as I start to play with the driver. Right now I am leaning toward a ported design in around a .5cf box. This driver does really well in a very small box so I think it is ideal for bass reenforcement. I suspect a single driver will play loud enough for me in a car.

It should be good enough for a car, even if you have a hatchback, the extra volume isn't that much and the 8" EP400 works quite well even in large rooms so a 6" for a car should be good.

So I guess there is no road trip in my future?

We just set the time for the road trip for you for this weekend, Saturday 3PM, I had 2 auditions for this week.

John, welcome(can always use another one). I'm sure that you'll enjoy excellent sounds through the Axioms which you've chosen. If you mention the audition that you enjoyed at Jay's when you order, he'll get credit toward Axiom merchandise.

Kudos Jakewash!

Axiom is one product that sells itself.

I hope to indoctrinate a few locals when I get my M80 living room set-up as well.

Axiom, the Tupperware of audio.

Can I come Saturday evening then? Or would Sunday work better for you?

Any time you are up this way Micah you are more than welcome to drop by as is any of the forum members.

Calgary eh? Its been a while. About 23 years to be exact! Wouldn't mind catching another stampede sometime though!

FYI, Stampede is July 9-18 this year.

Good times

Better times further north though!

Where... in Red Deer?

Nah, Bowden!

Let's not get going with that whole Bowden thing again

You can't stop Bowden! You can only hope to contain it

That's the reason they have the high fence with the wire on top!

Hi Redsands ...

Thats exactly the setup I have:

M80 v2
QS 8 x 4
VP 150
SVS Ultra PB13.

Friends are all in awe of the performance of the sub. Thats not saying the EP600 isn't good. I just wanted to future proof my setup and was impressed with the sub after some auditions and a lot of research.

Room is about 13' x 24'

Slitman

The more I research subs the more confused I get. People online definitely have their brand preferences and there biases show. I'm hearing ED subs, HSU, SVS, Rythmik, and not so much Axiom. All seem to have impressive offerings. It kinda seems that ED, HSU and Rythmik might be the best bang for your buck brands. - But I'm really torn. I guess I'm wondering if I need to spend ~$1900 on SVS or Axiom in order to get some serious performance. Very confused right now indeed.

The EP500 is a very strong performer for it's size. I was surprised at the power that little box has. I would also look to Paradigm DSP3200 or 3400 for a good sub without breaking the budget.

But to cut through some of the confusion, I would highly doubt you would be able to say that you felt you were missing any thing if you went with any of the manufacturers offerings that you have mentioned.

BTW, you should come back for another audition, I realized I played that depth charge scene from U571 with DD instead of the more dynamic DTS, the house really shakes with the DTS soundtrack.

Redsand

Don’t beat yourself up over this decision. It’s kind of like deciding between a BMW, Mercedes, or an Astin Martin. My preference is the Astin Martin, but on the other hand, I would be happy to see any of these in my driveway. I really don’t think you can go wrong with any of these subwoofer companies. I also don’t think that there is going to me a huge difference in sound quality between comparable subs from each company.
I love my EP500 and have never, and I mean never, felt it was lacking anything in the bottom end. I could easily shake the drywall screws out of my neighbours’ houses if I wanted to. And I am sure our HSU and SVS friends would make the same comment about their subs.
paul

Redsands, make this a fun decision. Most reputable ID companies offer 30 day trials, so audition what your heart and ears tell you to go with. Remember, all the subs you mention are highly regarded products, but will all sound different in different environments and locations within said environment. Your first decision should be sealed or ported, maybe you already decided. Just to share, I was a long time ported fan(car audio), but I am very impressed with the SQ of my new sealed subs.

???

Or, two different subs of the same quality will sound the same in the same place in the same environment...

Sealed vs ported is a non issue. Sealed subs will have more distortion (ie if you use the same driver for both a sealed and ported sub), but even there, we are much less sensitive to distortion at low frequencies.

I agree with Jay that you will probably be happy with offerings from any of the vendors mentioned.

Another one to consider is M J Acoustics. British made, sealed, down firing sub. They look small and are small, but they pack a hell of a punch. I heard the PRO 50 MKII which is only 120W MOSFET power and 10" driver. The box is about 11" cube. For that small of a sub it was quite impressive. That model sells for about $800 CA. The Pro 55 MKI is a 12" driver and 150W amp, sells for $1500 CA.

I own an EP500 and I am happy with it, although it is not as musical as I hoped it would be, it really shines in movies.

My 2 cents..

Riker

Wow, $10 bucks per watt? That's pretty steep, it BETTER be a good subwoofer for that kind of cabbage!

So here is how the last 10 mins have played out. I'm on the phone with SVS super excited as I'm ordering the Ultra 13. 3 Mins later I'm giddy as I tell my buddy at work. 2 Mins later I start to think about my wife's reaction when a massive box arrives at our door while she is at home and I am at work. 3 mins ago until now I'm super nervous and fearful! She's going to be mad! I'm reflecting on one of our recent conversations while I was researching subs in bed. She looked over at my laptop and said "you are NOT spending $2000 on a subwoofer" to which I did not have a witty reply to. Any ideas on how to soften the blow? I did get the rosenut finish so it should look very nice. And really under all this fear I'm still super excited. It is really what I wanted, I just had a hard time bringing myself to put down the money - especially with the negative outside influence ; )

In the end I didn't like the looks of the ED, and the size and weight gave me concerns as my room is small (not that the svs is tiny by any means), the HSU ULS-15 looked nice but shipped would've been within $500 and I was doubting that performance would equal the SVS. I had looked at some lower cost alternatives, but I was so worried that I would be underwhelmed and always second guessing my decision. With the SVS I think I'll have no regrets, other than the fury of a scorned wife that is!

I'm one happy guy! Now, recommendations on making the wife happy. Any?

Because your a great guy! Send her to a SPA for 3 days on the day the sub is supposed to arrive and make sure it sounds great while watching "The Notebook" when she gets home. (and make sure she spends AT LEAST 2K at the spa)

I once bought (on big sale) and dragged in to my shop a 300 lb. planer jointer---alone, 'cause no one could get here fast enough to help before I would have been busted. I can see why the sub in living room wouldn't have qualified for that method.

Oh, and as for asking here for your specific advice; If any of the guys who hang around here know better than you do how to please your wife, I'd be extremely suspicious ;-)

If you work hard enough to afford the sub, then be happy with the purchase and take the wrath for a week or so. If you are short on change and the wife is right, shame on you!

Seriously, it would be hard for me to drop $2k without the wife's approval. We have sort of an unwritten rule that any purchase over $200 or so requires discussion on both sides.

I'm sure you will love the new sub, and if you crank it up high enough she may be able to enjoy it in unthinkable ways! Yeah... that's the selling point!

You don't know RedSands wife? I thought most here did.

The good news is, if she kicks you out you could probably crawl inside the port hole on the SVS to get in out of the rain.

There was a rather funny moment at my house just a few weeks ago sort of similar to this. You don't know the history behind my EP800, but let's just say there's a story behind it. Anyways Axiom sent me so many parts for it while trying to get it to work that I pretty much stopped even telling her what was going on next with it because everytime I did tell her this or that concerning the subwoofer this blank stare suddenly came over her face, and I knew she was in another place boding her time while electronics AV jargon spewed forth from my jaws.

Well the last communication I had with Axiom went something like this, "ok we're thrilled the beta amp is working for you, when we get the finished product built we will ship it out to you. It will be a little bigger than the current one, so you'll have to make some modifications to the subwoofer to make it fit. We will send instructions on how to do the necessary mods".

I was fine with that. So in the following weeks I started to anticipate the UPS man pulling up and dropping off yet another box containing the new amp in it. Time went by, no amp... Oh well, I really did start to forget about it for a while.

Then one day just a few weeks ago me and the little lady were outside when a UPS truck backs down our drive. "Oh, my amp is here"!!! I exclaimed with glee, nothing like forgotten AV gear showing up to put a smile on a guys face! The guy comes around the back of his truck and says, "I have a pretty heavy box for you, you mind helping me"?

"Not at all, I can probably handle it myself actually, I've handled quite a few of these over the past year, trust me"! I chuckled.

"Really? This thing weighs 120 pounds, you sure you don't want a hand"?

For about 10 seconds after that sentence left his mouth all that could be heard were crickets chirping and birds squalking. Finally I found the words, "120 pounds? What the hell did they make the new amp out of anyway, pure lead"? As he opened the back of the truck and I saw the familiar, and massive box I was quite confused to say the least. When my fiancee saw it, a different emotion overcame her face.

"Ummmm... What did you buy, another subwoofer"? She asked, noticably more than just a little curious as to how I expected to squeeze another EP800 into our living room without her noticing it!

"Uuuuhhhh, no actually I didn't! I have not a clue what the heck is going on here"? I was able to say that making quite the convincing face because.... well because I really didn't have any clue as to what was going on at that point. It wasn't until later that I realzed they had decided to just replace the entire subwoofer rather than make us try to cut a bigger hole in our current unit to make room for the new amp.

I suggest you practice making that same face from now until the SVS arrives at your door. Practice this line in the mirror at work everyday from now until it arrives, "uuuuhhhh, I have no idea what the heck is going on here honey"... The day you get home, open the door and see your wife standing there with molten lava dripping from her eye sockets, you'll know you've been que'd!

That's a very common mistake. The approach I took (which also seems to be CV's approach) is to build the entire HT system BEFORE getting a wife or a girlfriend. As soon as I was done with my expenses last month, I allowed the girlfriend to come into my life. The keyword here is AFTER you spend the money!

So Charles, two more EP800s and you can get a girlfriend!

Very good advice.

I don't know if I'll ever be able to fit a girlfriend in. I need a projector and screen at some point, and then a new pre-pro, and a Buttkicker LFE kit, and new seating, and....

It's hopeless.

You could start by not researching major audio purchases in bed.

Rent “Private Parts” and show her the speaker scene explaining how much more power a subwoofer has.

Nah you’re screwed.

I see an opportunity for a 'Win, Win' here.

Yo! I never said that!

Edited. Sorry, I hit the quote button on CV's post but I must have confused it when I deleted some sections and it ended up picking your name from the quoted, quote.

You guys are funny! As for the sub it's actually in the basement budget, well $200 over budget I guess, but she didn't like the fact that I would spend that much on a sub - she just doesn't appreciate good sound - yet! All in all I don't think it will be too bad. I'm thinking I'm going to tell her on Saturday- my birthday. She can't get too mad then. Can she?

So I guess that wasn't the long-awaited first post without editing required!

Still Pending.

It's true, in order to have a happy relationship with a woman, a guy must buy all his toys BEFORE a female enters the picture.

Flash gets the girls. They are attracted to shiny things like a fish is attracted to bait. A guy with a fancy car, cool motorcycle, decked out house and a kick-ass HT will be VERY popular with the ladies. They love that stuff... but you see the thing is, what guys don't realize is that what the female is thinking is something like this, "oh, this guy has so much money laying around he doesn't know what to do with it all... once he's my man I'll help him make better decisions with his income".

And I'm not trying to be mean to females here, I believe 100% that is how the female brain works, whether they are aware of it or not. For instance I have always spent a large amount of money on motorcycles, that is my main hobby, HT is 2nd only to my bike. And anytime I've been single the girls go absolutely nuts over the bike, they LOVE it, constantly asking to go for a ride and what not. But without fail, every girl I've even gotten involved with has wound up complaining about the money I dump into my hobby within 6 months!

"You're going to spend HOW MUCH on that Akropovic exhaust and Power Commander??? Are you CRAZY"!!!

Which seems like a funny reaction to me, because girls magically gravitate towards those bikes that have money sunk into them. Anytime I'm hanging out with a bunch of my riding buddies and girls are around, they just seem to know somehow which bikes have the most money invested in them. Which is strange because they'd never be able to begin to guess where the money has been spent on the motorcycle, but somehow they can just smell the capital you have in your scooter, they never fail to ask to ride on the most expensive bikes. Sadly a guy on a bone-stock bike is probably riding solo. I don't mean to sound like I have a superiority complex btw, these are the simple facts. I've been riding for 20 years now, and this is always the way it plays out.

And no I do not spend money on bikes to get chicks, I actually dispise guys who buy a bikes for that reason. Sure it works alright, but I only like to ride with riders, not bike whores. Guys who buy a bike to get chicks are all the same, they get a motorcycle, go cruising for a month or two, find a woman, sell their bike and you never see them again. I would rather spend money on my bike than on a woman. Perhaps that is why I'm 39, divorced twice and currently not married? Actually there's no perhaps about it, I'm sure that's why.

Yup yup, girls they likey the boys with toys. But once they nail you down they expect you to trade in all those toys for babies. They see those toys as disposable income. Income better disposed of on them. Most men have a hobby that they like to spend their money on, whether it's golf, motorcycles, boats, HT or something else, we find ways to waste large amounts of money.

And about the only way to keep up with your hobby after you get involved with a woman is to spend as much or more on her than you do your hobby. That remark about sending your wife to the SPA and spending at least $2000 bucks on her was dead on! Lol, that's about the only way to passify most women. There are exceptions to this rule, but not very many.

How long do you have until D-Day anyway?

Women might also see those toys as a threat(attracting other women) after they've "got you".

A sure sign of insecurity IMO. Similar to guys who find a hot girl, get into a relationship, and by the time they've been married a year or two the girl isn't aloud to wear clothes that show off her body, or make-up or purfume etc... because all those things do is attract other men. And after all, "who does she need to impress anyway, she has me doesn't she"?

That's not me at all. If I meet a girl who likes to dress sexy, look good in public and feel good about herself, if we get into a relationship I would never ask her to change her ways. If that's how she was when I met her and I was obviously ok with it, then I would never expect or even want her to change who she is. And if she was only doing that to get a man, well then that's not the sort of girl I want anyway. When I meet a woman I want her to be herself, not someone trying to be someone else to get my attention.

And for me that works both ways. If a woman meets me and knows I ride motorcycles and spend money on my HT, then a year later when we're all settled in I'm not cool with them suddenly expecting me to change who I am. You liked me then, you'd better like me now. Sure things change when you start a family, naturally hobbies take a lesser role, and priorities change. But like with my first wife, as soon as she found out she was pregnant with our son, she immediatelly expected me to sell my bike and give up that hobby.

"You're getting too old for motorcycles now, they're for kids". LMAO, I certainly wasn't hearing that. So we battled head to head for the next 5 years until our divorce (no, we didn't split up over the bike). Ever since we split up I've always been very clear to the women I meet... I am a man with hobbies, and I will remain that same man whether I am single, engaged or married. If that's going to be a problem, hit the road.

I know it sound's harsh, but it's better than being miserable down the road.

On the other hand, telling girls I'm completely pliable hasn't helped me out.

LOL

That's like saying
"I'm Gumby, Damn it!"

That's the most insulting thing I read in a long, long time!

well, I'm hoping he knows I'm referring to the Eddie Murphy SNL skit but then again, he might be too young for that one. heh heh.

I got it. I use that line aaalll the time.

Gumby as Gangsta.

Does that mean we see Gumby's Green Azz hanging out?

As long as you don't think of Pokey when you look at Gumby's Azz.

I really feel for you guys that have wife/girlfriend problems when it comes to justifying audio purchases or if they will approve of the "look" of speakers etc.

I guess I'm a lucky bastid, because I have a lady who loves audio/music/movies as much as I do.

Priorities!

I just can't imagine living in opposition or fear of a significant other when it comes to something that I am so passionate about. I'd rather live alone than have to live my life justifying everything to someone who "doesn't get why I have to..." etc., all the while meekly trying to eek out a small smidgen of happiness in between what a wife/girlfriend demands of me.

Are we men or mice? I live by the credo: "Don't be p#ssy whipped, you gotta whip that p#ssy!

But I'm a musician who lives a very non-traditional life so, ymmv...

And I do, understand...

Hey, watch dat tawk, or y'all jus' might git a cap stuck to yo' azz.

Of course, she's a vampire who tries to bite your neck every chance she gets....

Lol, so that's why I've been feeling so anemic lately!

There's always a catch, isn't there guys?

LMAO! That is the funniest line I have read on this forum yet.

Scooter sniffing! Sounds positively filthy!

Well we men and women do make up ying and yang. In other words we balance each other. Our strengths make up for their weaknesses and vice versa. If ever a male and female got together that were TOO alike, the universe would explode or God would evaporate or NSYNC would get back together or something super bad like that.

Therefore Savant the rest of humanity is praying your lady isn't quite as perfect as you suspect she is. She just HAS to be hiding something away from you that you are completely unaware of... we just couldn't take Justin with long curly hair again!

I always figured I would somehow be responsible for ushering in armageddon!

There's a saying I heard once: "A woman inspires a man to greatness, then makes sure he never achieves it..."

I laughed at first and then, upon further reflection, became a bit depressed...

Good Lord have mercy on us all... Bruce throwing Ben into that elevator shaft so that he could live while Bruce totts off on a suicide mission, at the exact same time Liv looks up into the heavens with 'I Don't Want to Miss a Thing' sweeping by softly through the passing breeze...

I think I'd rather have Justins long locks come back.

An update for you all. My wife and I were talking about the basement a few days ago and what we still have to order/buy/do and I casually mentioned that I had ordered the sub and that it's on it's way because I got a deal on it and all she said was "ok." All that worry for nothing! Of course it hasn't arrived yet and I'm anticipating the discussion on "and why do we need a sub this big in our tiny theater?" to which I will reply "you'll see!" I'm very glad at this time I did not go with the ED sub, it just would've been bigger and heavier. I'm really happy with my decision to go the SVS route. I'm sure when it comes to AV purchases there may be some women out there that are more understanding but overall she hasn't batted an eye at all of my theater purchases which is making up more than a quarter of our entire basement budget. But like Micah said no lady is perfect in all areas, I'm pretty darn happy with mine.

On a side note have any of you who have ordered from the factory outlet been able to see the flaws on your speakers?

Redsands, most have not been able to find any detectable flaws on his/her outlet speakers. I don't think you'll have anything to worry about.

Eeerrr... ok if MY woman ever happens to stumble upon this thread then for the record I said no woman EXCEPT MINE is perfect.





Of the 6 speakers I recieved from the factory outlet I think I found one tiny little imperfection in the finish on the BOTTOM of one of my M80's... and I wasn't even exactly sure if it was an imperfection or not it was that small and hard to identify. Over all I was shocked at the level of quality of these speakers. For the price I was expecting a much more humble product.

I'm certainly not complaining.

Like I mentioned during the audition, my M80s, VP150 and one of my QS8s were from the factory outlet and I have yet to notice anything I would call a flaw The M60s I had originally ordered before changing to the M80s, had one spot on the side where the print had peeled away from the backing, but it was a pretty small area and hard to notice, I had to really look for it to find it.