Center Channel Help

Posted by: bolt148

Center Channel Help - 04/12/10 12:09 PM

I just recently purchased the epic grandmaster 500 set of speakers, and have been reading about center channel setup on this forum. The question that I have is would it be better to use a single VP150, or two M22s laid together horizontally with the tweeters on the outside. I know its a weird question, but having a perfect sound stage is important! Thanks!
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Center Channel Help - 04/12/10 12:23 PM

This actually comes up a lot, I would not lay down your m22's as they are designed to be vertical speakers with a good horizontal dispersion of the sound. If you lay them down, your horizontal dispersion just tuned into vertical dispersion. The 150 is a center channel speaker and should do fine. The best center is a matching speaker of your left/right, if that is m22's, then a standing m22 would work, but don't count out the 150.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Center Channel Help - 04/12/10 12:28 PM

Welcome to the forum \:\)

Try it out and let us know what you think, I have tried it and liked it but feel the improvement in SQ isn't necessarily worth the extra cost of 2 M22s over the VP150. I liked the M22s vertically oriented as a center better than the VP150 but did/do not have the room for a vertical M22.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Center Channel Help - 04/12/10 12:32 PM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
This actually comes up a lot, I would not lay down your m22's as they are designed to be vertical speakers with a good horizontal dispersion of the sound. If you lay them down, your horizontal dispersion just tuned into vertical dispersion.
This is the problem with nearly all horizontal speaker designs including the VP150 and VP100, so laying down the M22s simply mimics the VP150 with one extra driver but better low end extension due to the ports.
Posted by: casey01

Re: Center Channel Help - 04/12/10 12:38 PM

 Originally Posted By: bolt148
I just recently purchased the epic grandmaster 500 set of speakers, and have been reading about center channel setup on this forum. The question that I have is would it be better to use a single VP150, or two M22s laid together horizontally with the tweeters on the outside. I know its a weird question, but having a perfect sound stage is important! Thanks!


As has been discussed many times on this and other forums, no matter the model you choose for your center, more than anything, final positioning is much more critical with horizontal center channels, which, in the final analysis, in terms of more accurate sound stage, will determine what you hear.

In the past, I have experimented with BOTH of your potential choices and in my opinion, if you have the capability of using TWO center channels, in lieu of your choices, I would opt for TWO M2s placed in their normal upright position, tilted towards the listener. They will give you a more "natural" sound with voices than the others and blend better with the M22s.
Posted by: bolt148

Re: Center Channel Help - 04/12/10 01:49 PM

Yes, I realized that this topic has been discussed. I have also looked through most of them in regards to this topic, but have not seen an Axiom customer suggest this specific setup, nor have I seen factual evidence. If you would kindly point me in that direction, I won't bug you guys any longer. Thanks!
Posted by: grunt

Re: Center Channel Help - 04/12/10 02:30 PM

Here are the results of an off axis frequency variation test done by Audioholics of traditional center channel speakers oriented both horizontally and vertically. In all cases they performed better vertically. However, there is no way other than double blind listening tests to provide ďfactual evidenceĒ as to which sounds better and under what conditions.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/lou...evaluation.html

I tried exactly as you describe and came up with the following results.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...true#Post218171

IMO the only possible way you will know if dual M22s laying down will sound better than as single VP150 for your needs is to try it out yourself in your own room with your own material so that you can tweak things.

Following on what Sirquack said the best center channel is usually a speaker identical to your L/R main. If you want to get close to simulating what this will sound like turn the center speaker off in your receiver and it will play through your mains to simulate a center channel at least for the sweet spot of your listening area.
Posted by: Micah

Re: Center Channel Help - 04/12/10 04:39 PM

Don't worry you're not bothering us. This isn't our job after all, we're all here because we enjoy chatting about this stuff.

If they ever come up with a job that pays you to do this sort of thing, I for one will not stop applying until they hire me!!!
Posted by: bolt148

Re: Center Channel Help - 04/13/10 11:35 AM

Wouldnt that be nice?!

Has anyone tried as casey suggested with two M2s? I was thinking about using two M2s and putting one above the tv and one below sitting vertically? Will that be a significant improve over the dual M2s sitting next to each other? I understand it is hard to tell without actually doing it, but I am just looking for some opinions. Thanks!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Center Channel Help - 04/13/10 11:55 AM

A few people have done as you suggest, one above and below, and they report it sounds very good with the dialogue anchored to the center of the screen.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Center Channel Help - 04/13/10 02:42 PM

My experience is you get diferent benefits from over under and side by side placement of dual centers. Over and under helps center the dialogue on the screen vertically which can be a problem for some peopleís seating arrangements with a single center speaker.

Putting them slightly apart side by side can help spread out the center channel when using a very wide screen relative to seating distance.

As you already suspect which will work better is dependent on the situation and personal preferences. What size and aspect ratio is your screen? How far is your seating? How far off center are your farthest seats out to each side?
Posted by: bolt148

Re: Center Channel Help - 04/13/10 04:41 PM

I have a 42in Panasonic G15 Plasma TV, and my theater chairs are centered on the tv in a group of three, about 7ft from the screen. All three chairs are at a concave angle, opening toward the screen and relatively close. Thanks!
Posted by: grunt

Re: Center Channel Help - 04/14/10 03:02 AM

Iím assuming that since you mentioned laying down the M22s and now are considering vertical M2 that you donít have room for a vertical M22 center. Itís generally considered ideal to have 3 identical speakers across the front, especially for music. Itís less important for movies unless like me you are driven crazy by any timbre mismatch between speakers.

However, you are sitting close enough that if your mains are far out to the sides of the TV a single vertical center could sound to focused especially for movies. So it could be that dual M2s side by side or the VP150 would work better as it would spread the center channel portion of the front sound stage out blending more with the mains. IMO the further apart your mains and the closer you sit the more it might be beneficial to have the sound coming from the center channel spread out a little.

I hate to say it but the only way to know what will sound best to you is to have a listen. Iíd say just to stick with the VP150 that comes with the Epic Grand Master set and only worry about trying other center speakers if you find something you donít like about it.

Also note all speakers are going to perform basically as weíve been describing regardless of brand do either to their horizontal or vertical orientation.
Posted by: bolt148

Re: Center Channel Help - 04/14/10 11:33 AM

Thank you for your help, and that is an accurate assumption. I can wall mount an M22 above the tv, that would probably look a little weird. I can also raise my TV on its stand, but that may be too high of a viewing angle. Oh the dilemma! So my speakers arrive today, \:\) and I will be playing around with the different orientations before I order another M22 or pair of M2s. Thanks for your help Grunt, and If anyone else has any ideas, please let me know!