I was wondering if anyone had a list of receivers that included pre-amp outputs. I've been wading through specs of various manufactures, but was hoping someone knew of a site/reseource that have a tick box search/ sort. thanks.

Not aware of a list. Usually I just go up and down the specs on the manufacturer's website.

I doubt if there is a list, but what I have seen recently with the bulk of the mainstream manufacturers is that for the most part with all the "bells and whistles" they are putting in this equipment and I guess to keep the cost down, they are NOT putting pre-outs on their lower end models.

It seems they are limiting that feature to their mid to upper end product and that means, of course, having to spend more money to get it.

Agreed. Onkyo was the only manufacturer I could find that kept pre-outs in some of their lower-mid line receivers.

Pioneer appears to be generous or at least was on their older models as was Yamaha. The HK2600 has preouts and doesn't cost too much. Looks to me the point at which preouts appear fairly regularly to be around the $800-1000 mark.

Crutchfield.com has a nice layout to their website. Go to the receiver section and tick the compare box for all the models you want to compare and when you click compare it brings up a nice table with all the specs. Right at the bottom are preamp out's if that is an important feature to you.

Oh, and Crutchfield's customer service is right up there with Axiom, top notch.

Yeah, I'm finding the point is pretty high, to get that feature- though it's not really a feature- I imagine every receiver has that "inside".

What I don't get is by the time you get high enough in a product line to get the pre-outs, the amps in the receiver are good enough (and add enough to the price) that the want for external amps is diminished.

I know, I keep thinking the same thing. My 3808 sounds good enough on its own that to spend more money on an outboard amp is very hard to do. I know I will buy one eventually but till then I am still very happy.

Axioms good in that they seems to do well with reasonable power.

That's due to their somewhat high sensitivity levels.

The Onkyo 707 was the lowest model in the line that has preouts. You can pick one up refurbed without breaking the bank.

Seems sort of like a conspiracy doesn't it! Lol, I know exactly what you mean though, I've often noticed the same thing. It seems as though it should be opposite, with the high power recievers not needing pre-outs. My guess is that they might feel like those who only look at buying a 70 or 90 watt per channel reciever isn't someone who's wanting to really crank up their system, so they're not likely to buy external amps. However those of us who really like to crank it might buy a reciever with fairly beefy amps incorporated into them to run our surrounds with and push the left/right/center with the external amp, like me for instance.

I dunno, I remember us having this discussion before and it doesn't seem to me that this was the case made for low price recievers not having pre-outs, but I can't remember what the consensus was off hand.

Pre-pros should be cheaper than receivers. Then I'd be happy.

Amen.

Preach it, brother!

Can I get a witness from the congregation! Or for those of a different theological gastronomical persuasion - "Can I get some kugel from the congregation!"

People do their kegels in the pews?