I almost never use my DVD changer, partially because it's got ridiculously long load times. I know most of you have BD already, but can anyone recommend a universal player that has fast load times? I'm looking for SACD/DVD-A/DVD-V.

Idle speculation, really, but...

Also the remote on my changer blows--there's no way to ff/rewind without holding down the skip buttons. Thanks, Yamaha. This defect continues to universal remotes.

OPPO BDP-83 is the ticket. Excellent performance all around including load times. World class product IMO.

What is considered to be a "fast" load time?

The Integra that I suggested you buy a few years ago loads fasterthanhell. I still use mine daily too. Na-Na-Na-Na-Na

Although, I have to admit that the PS3 is crazy fast. Uglier than a dirt fence, but it's fast.

The Oppo BD 83 is almost as fast as the PS3.

I'm kind of curious how fast my computer will load Blu-rays whenever I get around to buying a Blu-ray drive for it. But yeah, I use both the OPPO BDP-83 and PS3 for Blu-ray watching, and they're both fast enough that I don't hate life when using them. It can vary quite a lot depending on the disc, though.

The thing I want to be faster is HDMI handshaking. I realize my TV and Integra processor are holding me back. I'm just wondering how much faster devices are now. It would be nice if every device had an easy-to-find HDMI handshaking speed spec.

D'oh. I knew I should have gotten the Integra/Onkyo. Dammit.

I don't have a PS3 but I have read some load time tests that compare the two that say the complete opposite.

The Oppo is your ticket

My Panny BD50 from Costco, is fast enough to make me happy.

Panasonic units are very good but they don't do SACD and DVD-A.

yep, I don't listen to any of that anyway.

That explains why it fits my mancave decore so well! I havn't really noticed load times, which means its really fast.

Both PS3 and Oppo are fast enough that you don't think about "is it loading or not???" PS3 seems to be the only player that every movie studio will test against. I don't know of one movie that failed to play on the PS3. No other player can claim that. Even the vaunted Oppo had problems playing one or two movies.

Blu-ray....was never fully baked before being released.

And your point is? I'm full of shit maybe?

I have and use both.

I guess so. People that own both have done tests that have been documented on the internet and they state otherwise. During the beta stage of the BDP-83 the PS3 was documented at slightly higher load times on average except for when using chapters and it seems Oppo has bested them with sucessful firmware updates. All you state is one is faster without any factual evidence as opposed to other people that have exact seconds of load times of different players with a wide variety of disks. Thats information I am going off of. Do you do firmware updates on your players?

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/blu-ray-...s-powering.html

I didn't realize the firmware updates provided such an increase in performance. I remember the initial reviews stating that one or the other was faster depending on the function and the title, though the PS3 was given the edge. Then the PS3 Slim came out, which was said to be a little slower than previous models (and it's the model I currently have), and I haven't heard of any of the PS3 updates improving performance. I can be on board with the OPPO being considered faster now. I haven't used the Slim to play any Blu-rays except when I first got it to try it out.

While we're talking about time, disc load times and player responsiveness have been significant issues for Blu-ray players, especially when BD-Java is involved. The BDP-83 performs well in this regard, with good player responsiveness to remote commands and fast load times. One of several "time trials" I did during beta testing was measuring how long the player took to load the Pirates of the Carribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl Blu-ray. This is a title that was documented on AVS Forum for a number of players that I did not have available to me, so it gave me a wider sampling. Load time for the BDP-83 was under 24 seconds, while load time for my Panasonic BD30 was 53 seconds. According to AVS, the PS3 takes at least 30 seconds to load this disc, the Pioneer BDP-05 takes 80 seconds, the Samsung 1400 takes 136 seconds, and the Sony BDP300 takes 183 seconds. Newer players from all of these manufacturers have improved on load times, but even compared to the latest models from Sony, Panasonic, and others the BDP-83 should remain near the front of the pack for disc load times. There are a few areas where the BDP-83 is reportedly not as fast as the PS3, mainly relating to navigating BD-Java menus and loading BD-Live content, but otherwise the BDP-83 is at least on par with the PS3 – which puts it up among the best players on the market for speed. (I believe this was referenced during the beta stage)

http://www.prillaman.net/oppobdp83_review.html

Does the PS3 even support DVD-A or SACD?

The PS3 never supported DVD-A and Sony has dropped SACD support on any of the new PS3 models. The only models that supported SACD were some 60gb and 80gb models made in 2007 and I am not sure what year they stopped making them. You would have to find them used on Ebay or other places such as that.

The PS3 is a great choice if you are a gamer and it offers great value in that regards because of its Blu-ray capabilities. Otherwise the Oppo is the better choice IMO. The OP wanted SACD and DVD-A support so that would only leave one option out of these two choices.

One note is the PS3 will have 3D Blu-ray support with a firmware update, if that's of value.

Great point CV. I am not that familiar with 3d technology but will you need to buy a new television with the 3d capabilites to support this format. Is this correct? What about individuals with projectors?

Yes, you'll need a new display to do 3D. That's where the actual frame separation magic happens. So you'll need a player which can read the secondary "eye" information (which will be a muxed sub-stream, which can use the primary stream for key information, but not the other way around). A receiver which can pass the extra frame's worth of information untampered, which probably means an upgrade there too.

Some of the first 3D "displays" available were projectors. They're using the more expensive shutter-type glasses, which have batteries and need to be recharged. All that's needed from the projector is that it can run at 48 fps for film sources, or 60 for video. Then it floods the room with IR bursts which are received by the glasses to know which eye should be covered at what time.

Funny thing is, I know so much about this tech, but have absolutely no interest in buying it, nor seeing another 3D movie in theaters.

Ha ha. What turned you off? I've still only seen How To Train Your Dragon in 3D. The 3D didn't exactly sell me, but I still kind of want to try it out more. What have you seen in 3D?

I have a HTPC with a SSD OS drive 8 GB, and Blurays load fast (from a sever over a GB network) If I use the local BR drive, it also seems speedy.

In comparison (only in my memory) to the Samsung 4600/56000? I bought and returned a while back, lots faster (also lots faster than a conventional HD)... but I could be wrong!

I saw My Bloody Valentine, and Avatar. So both ends of the 3D spectrum. Neither left me wanting to see more.

It doesn't add anything to the viewing experience. It doesn't look more real. The real world doesn't work like the 3D effect in movies. In the real world there's parallax, when you move side to side, previously obscured information is revealed.

I supposed 3D technology to eventually get to that point. Just as CG effects had to go through a growing period (and perhaps are still not as good as practical effects in some cases--blood splatter comes to mind). It'll just be painful to watch until it gets there.

Well, only the PS3 slim from what I hear. The older PS3s have sacd. That's why I picked one up: Two birds with one stone.

Didn't OPPO announce a lower version of the BDP83 for those who don't want all the bells and whistles?

Ah, 3 pages of discussion and dissent. Perfect!

How about the older Oppos? I'm not jumping on the BD bandwagon just yet--I don't think they'd work all that impressively with a 27" CRT--so I was toying with the idea of a used Oppo something or other. I don't really need a changer any more, since it's all on the GASP iPods...

I have a Panasonic BD-55 and the load times are alright, but it doesn't fly by any means. It smokes my HDDVD player though. Avatar takes for-freaking-ever on BD but I heard many people have problems with that one.

I still nominate Apollo 13 as having the most unreasonable load time I've encountered. I'm scared to put it in again for fear of looking like Jack on the other side of the startup.

I have both the Oppo BDP-80 and Sony 60GB PS3 that support SACD.

If you do not intent to use the analog out of the Oppo, The BDP-80 would be a very good player. And the PS3 is pretty fast as well and the HDMI handshake issue from the PS3 are lesser with my Marantz SR6003. Only thing that is the PS3 does not do bit streaming of HD-Audio.

The whole 3D revolution thing is really pissing me off. Not that I'm obsessed with 3D by any means, just by the fact that I had JUST went out and spent $3000 bucks purchasing my 65 inch Sharp because I'd seen everything else on the market... the Plasma's, the LED's, the 240 HZ LCD's... and I was fairly confident that I wasn't missing out on anything by going with this 60 HZ LCD. And then a few months later I find out they're changing the industry over to 3D... AARRRRRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was the same way when I bought my Denon, it had so many features I never thought I'd ever have to replace it. Then a year later HDMI took over and suddenly I was no longer up to date technology wise. I do like 3D movies. I can live without them, but I do like them. And no I'm not so dense that I think I could have bought a 65 inch 3D television for anywhere near what I paid for mine. Hell 65 inch 3D tv's will probably start around $12,000 bucks or so in the beginning. New technology always costs a fortune.

I guess what it all boils down to is that when I bought this tv I really thought I was set for the next decade or two, EASY! And now, IF 3D catches on as much as they're hoping it will, I'll be missing out on future television shows an the like that will be broadcast in 3D. Sure when HDMI first came out they just touted it as being 'an easier connection' than separate component video and optical audio wires. But now, if you don't have HDMI technology, you miss out on a lot of options. So while they aren't touting that 3D will be the new television standard, who knows what will happen with it.

And I thought my television shopping days were over!

Here are some sample load times from the beta test period for the BDP-83:

http://watershade.net/wmcclain/BDP-83-faq.html#how-fast-are-the-load-times

OTOH my experience with some disks like the re-mastered original Star Trek’s take their sweet time.




I have an Oppo 981HD. The load time from power up and insuring a disk to the first screen is about 20 sec, power up with disk already inside to first screen is about 15 sec and already powered on with try open to first screen with new disk is about 10 sec. seems the same for all disks. I’ve put well over 3,000 disks into mine and still haven’t broken it (it’s my burn tester I use to chapter through my DVD copies to check that they play. BTW it also plays old VCDs if you have any of those.

I think it’s the BDP-83 but it might also be the 981HD there is a slight delay on playing the first track of an some audio CD or maybe SACDs. It truncates the first few notes of the first track unless. You have to hit the chapter back button to hear those restart from the beginning (I think it’s the BDP-83 that does this but shows you how much I notice I can’t remember).

The 981HD was the early player optimized for video playback while one of the other players (I don’t remember which) was optimized for audio playback. Not sure if there was really a big difference.

I'll add a second parameter to that statement. The other big feature of the 83 over the 80 is it's video processor. So if you're only going to be watching Blu-rays, with digital audio out, then the 80 may be your better bet. But if you're still viewing a lot of DVDs, the 83's video processor is a big deal.

Spoken by a man who admittedly isn't even interested in the 83... Now that's class!

I want to know how the PS3 and Oppo handle the layer break on regular DVD's? My current BDP1600 is terrible, it freezes on most DVDs. It works fine with BR's of course, no layer break. I had an old Sony DVD that did this freeze up all the time and I returned it because of it. My wife hates the new 1600. I told her I want to get the Oppo but if it has layer break issues I will get the PS3, I beleive it has no issues, at least no one appears to be complaining about it if it does. I have yet to try the recently added Xbox360 as the main DVD player.

Jay,
I have the Oppo. I don't even notice the breaks on regular DVDs and they are very minimal if at all on BD. Additionally the Upconverstion on standard DVDs is superb. All the hoopla about the extended version LOTR on BD - I wouldn't bother as the Oppo does such a good job upconverting, I don't plan to replace existing DVDs in my collection.

I always wondered what caused this occasional pause during DVD playback. My Sony was miserable with this problem. My Panasonic BD30 does this occasionally, but in much shorter duration.

From the same link I posted above:



http://watershade.net/wmcclain/BDP-83-faq.html#how-fast-are-the-layer-changes

I have never seen a layer change on any disk on any of my Oppos but then I’m not sitting there looking for them either.

As they pointed out, that Avia disc is really abusive with it's layer change. No studio would ever author a disc in that manor.

That said, I've never noticed a layer change, at all, on my PS3. Where as unless it was on a black screen I'd be completely taken out of the moment when my Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi changed.

Why, what old British mansion are they doing the authoring in?

When the player has a problem with layer changes you don't have to look for them, they simply freeze up and stop playing for those 1-2 seconds but that small amount of time is very frustrating when you are watching and the action stops. This Samsung also doesn't like minorly scratched up discs like you generally get on a rental disc. I have had to return a few rented movies because they wouldn't play on this player. I will most likely end up using the Xbox for standard def for awhile.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the scratch problem until you mentioned it. The Sony wouldn't play a disk if it had a scratch, period. The Panasonic plays through just about anything. In the 2 years I've had it, I've only had one playback problem due to scratches and I rent from Netflix all the time.
Edit: To be fair the Sony was a DVD player, not a BD player.

Sounds like I should steer clear of Samsung BD players also.

LOL

I know you’re not looking for s BD player Ken but I just saw this.


http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/trans...n-dbp-1611ud-fl

You learn something new every day. I have a Sony DVP NS755V DVD player that I've always thought was pretty useable, although old. But I've always noticed those little 'freezes', only I always thought it was a finger print on the DVD or something like that halting playback for a second while it gained it's composure. Wow, so that's a 'layer break' then eh? Well now I'll know what's going on when that little pause inturupts things.

Amazing how many times you can experience something and have absolutely no idea what it is until someone else mentions it.

I've never had any problem with layer change with my Oppo plying either DVD or BD

Indeed. I wonder if this was my issue with the DVD player in my computer? It only happened on some DVDs. Sometimes I would get a complete freeze And nothing short of a chapter/scene change would resolve it.

PS3 bitstreams with newer updates. That's actually one pro that no other player can claim. The processor is so powerful that they can probably do whatever is required via software. Sort of future proofs the unit. Older units however (40GB one, for example) had some fan noise issues. More than likely, it's because the CPU heat sink separated from the CPU. So be careful if you're shopping around for an older PS3.

It definitely looks like a nice player, as long as they didn't mess anything up. If the reviews are good, I may even replace my OPPO. I like all of the streaming options.

Nice, looks very promising. Still curious as to the scaler though...

I'm thinking the same thing. I need (want?) a new BD player sometime soon but this would look good to me only if it has a decent scaler.

It's a shocking price from Denon reguardless of the scaler, but it it has a top rated scaler, I'm going to pass out!

I have both the Oppo bdp83 and the PS3. The PS3 has faster load times than the Oppo on Blu-ray's. But, the Oppo is fast enough that if you prefer the features of the Oppo then you will not be disappointed. So, between the two just decide which features you prefer and don't decide based on load times.

The upconversion of that Denon won't be able to compete with the Oppo bpd-83. Also, the Oppo has the blu-tv feature which looks like has the ability to add apps to stream many different things.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/blu-tv-brings-interactive-iptv-to-disc-players-starting-with-th/

Look at the Netflix icon on the TV display in the link. I don't know why Oppo hasn't taken this further yet though.

Denon is using the same scaler as Oppo in some of their products already. It's still yet to be seen which scaler is included in this lower model.

Also, Anchor Bay is being given a run by a few other scaler chips now. The Marvell Qdeo is something to watch out for as it starts to show up in products.

Forgot to add. Blu-TV isn't an Oppo thing, it's another company, who don't seem to be progressing with their tech at all.

Ya, I figured as much. I feel no need to time my players. Those that do need to get a life, much like those that cling to their testing results. From the moment I walk up to each player that is powered off, till the time I see something on my screen, the PS3 is faster. Not by much, but fast enough that I don't need a stop watch to verify. And yes, I keep firmware up to date on all my machines. I have a laptop for that very purpose that rarely leaves the theater unless I'm using it for vehicle diagnostic testing and tuning.

Ken - what is it again that you want? I'm selling my DVDO VP50pro and Oppo 981. The 981 is modified for SDI. Spectacular up-conversion for SD-DVD with this combo.

Michael, I'm mostly trying to figure out if replacing my current DVD player with something that was faster and easier to use would actually cause my family and I to actually watch DVDs--just that, plain and simple. The Yamaha changer I have is slow, clunky, hard to access, and has miserably bad controls.

While someday I hope to have an HDTV, it's likely to be small, due to monetary, room size, and WAF constraints.

Someday my CRT will die...

Yo. I gots a few friends that will break your TVs knees

(::He says while pushing his nose from the side to make it look broken::)

You do realize that yours is now destined to be the last working CRT on the planet.

Oh, I'm fully aware of that.

At this point, I have to say that I really don't care about upconversion. My DVD purchases have gone way down. When I want to be impressed, I'm watching Blu-ray. The PS3's scaling is fine for me if I feel the Denon doesn't cut it.

Oh.... I understand now. I was going to suggest that you just buy one of the Oppo SD players, because they are all good, adn cheap, but it would seam that Oppo no longer makes SD players.

I also have an Oppo 970. As soon as I buy a new TV for the loft (where the 970 is being used), I will not need the 970 and can send it to you if you pick up the shipping costs. It might be a couple months before I buy the TV though..... I just paid for my allotments from Peter Michael and Vineyard 29 and am cash poor.

That's quite generous of you, Michael. Let me know if/when you're ready for this. Thank you!

I'll pay 10% more than Ken offers.

Peter's that guy who asks what the bids are on the Price is Right and then bids $1 higher than the highest bidder.

If you have a PS3, they why do you want the Denon to begin with? The PS3 streams Netflix, plays DVD's, Blu-ray's, Games, etc. In my mind the Denon would be a step down.

... and will be 3D ready with an firmware upgrade.

The only thing the Denon really has going for it over the PS3 Slim, is DVD-A and SACD compatibility.

My thoughts exactly, but I'm still hopeful

Fact or speculation?

I'm still using two, so it isn't THAT rare...yet...

That's just mean.

Uh hu.... hoarding antiques eh!

That's got to be Micah's shortest post yet.

Nu uh

What, people aren't paying attention to my whining? Netflix is a non-issue for me right now, but I want a good device for streaming my media. I don't have a really good way to stream my music collection. I'm using the WD TV Live, but I had to convert my collection from lossless WMA to FLAC. It works, but the interface isn't the best and is kind of slow. The PS3 finally supported lossless WMAs before I converted my collection, but the playback had its hiccups. The other thing is that the PS3 outputs a signal that my pre-pro won't apply matrixed surround modes to, which is something I consider a must-have. If the Denon supports FLAC, has a good interface, and plays my music in a stereo signal that my pre-pro can apply surround modes to, then it's the player I'm looking for.

That's another thing.

My PS3 outputs stereo audio with only two channels of HDMI audio. At one point mine was doing the 7.1 channels active for stereo signals with all the extra ones carrying silence. But it seemed to have stopped after some firmware update. Have a look through your audio settings too. I know there's nothing which spells that out, but there's a setting for output of CD audio. Make sure that's set to the 44.1,... sampling rates, and not the 48 kHz default. Otherwise, I dunno.

You're right that it outputs as "Stereo" now, but my Integra won't do anything with it. It won't allow a surround mode. I don't know what's special about this stereo mode, since I can obviously apply the surround modes to the stereo signals from both my OPPO and WD TV Live.

I think that all of us are just speculating since the Denon isn't released yet. But, think about this. How can the entry level Denon have more features that the Oppo BDP83 come in at a lower price. Oppo is an internet direct company with low profit margins and Denon has to sell this player to someone else who then sells it to you. Whenever somebody gets their hands on a product, they want to get their fair share. Denon has to be cutting corners somewhere and the most expensive part is the scaling. The difference in price between the Oppo BDP80 and BDP83 is a little over $200. The big difference between the two is the scaling and the BDP80 has a pretty good scaler (I think it is the same scaler as the Oppo DV-980H dvd player).

If you are still not convinced, thing about this. The Oppo BDP83 is neck and neck with the Denon DVD-A1UDCI flagship universal blu-ray player over HDMI in terms of video processing, video performance and even audio performance. The Oppo even has much better load times of blu-ray's. The flagship Denon retails for $4500. Yes, a good portion of that $4500 went to beefing up the analog audio section, but do you think that less than a year later they would take all of that digital and audio performance a stuff it and extra features into an entry level player? Not unless their sole purpose was to put Oppo out of business regardless of whether they are taking a big loss on each player sold.

Very good point nickborous on watching out for corners being cut. It will be a wait and see approach. On the other hand the Oppo BDP83 is known not skimp on quality or performance. So much in fact according to the wonderful work over at audioholics, Lexicon dropped a Oppo BDP83 player into their own chasis and charges a $3000 premium for it!

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/trans...xicon-outside-1

Yeah, but what chassis!

Nobody has mentioned Denon's other new Universal player, the 2011, that has all the streaming features of their entry level player, combined with the Anchor Bay processors, for $799. So even if the scaling of the little unit isn't up to snuff, and therefore a deal breaker for those on the market for a Universal player, they still have a viable option on the table.

Yes Oppo has established itself as a reputable company with the BDP83, however I think the Denon name still draws more respect. So for $300 dollars more it seems to have everything (7.1 analog out section as well) the Oppo unit has, plus all those new streaming features. I think it will be hard to overlook all that when deciding which to get.

Sounds like Oppo has a 'New' Universal player to build!

$2500 dollar chassis eh? Is it made out of solid plutonium or something?

I don't think I would want to spend $3k on a player that had been 'dropped' anyway.

I would think the Denon player would support FLAC just as their receivers do.

Those were my thoughts as well, just wondering if you actually had inside info or something

You realize you can purchase OPPO products from places like Amazon.com and Audioholics, right? I'm sure they're not selling it and making zero money themselves.

I can only guess as to their reasoning, but I would think they suckered about as many people as they're going to with that $4500 unit. I'm sure they can still turn a profit with their new entry level player without it being a total piece of garbage. Lesser analog section and video scaling than the OPPO? They simply put their emphasis on UI instead. At least I'm hoping. Now if only they would release a more realistically priced pre-pro that has newer features.