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Posted By: letigre Speaker placement - 07/22/10 03:31 PM
Hi all,

I recently purchased 2 M22tis with stands. Currently, I have the following equipment in a roughly 10' x 18' room with a projector being shot on the short wall:

2 Axiom AX-5 as fronts (4 ohm)
2 Axiom AX-2 with stands as surrounds
Mirage center channel
7.1 Pioneer receiver

I don't own a sub so I use the rear-firing AX-5s to do the trick. However, I'm thinking of getting a standalone sub if using the new M22tis (8 ohm) as fronts and the AX-5s as rears would make more sense.

Any thoughts what I should do?

Posted By: Murph Re: Speaker placement - 07/22/10 04:42 PM
Hi Letigre,
Sounds like you are about to really enjoy yourself with this gear.

The diagram below shows the defacto 5.1 speaker layout. Sometimes, you have to do what you can to accommodate odd room shapes and such but this would be the ideal angles for you to start with and tweak from there.

This picture came from an excellent guide to HT layouts provided in the "Articles" section on the Axiom home page. Lot's of good info there on everything from beginner to rather advanced topics.

Axiom Learning Center
Posted By: letigre Re: Speaker placement - 07/22/10 04:55 PM
Any thoughts on if I should move the M22ti's and get a sub and move the AX-5s to the rear?
Posted By: Murph Re: Speaker placement - 07/22/10 05:42 PM
Sorry, I didn't catch that part of the question.
I have never heard the AX-5s so it is difficult for me to make a recommendation but here are some comments that might influence you one way or the other.

I believe that adding a sub will give you a LOT more HT satisfaction to go with that nice big movie screen you have. The AX-5s are never going to replicate the "theater experience" on their own. Neither would the M22s on their own.

The combination of M22s plus a sub are of legendary status on this board for sound quality, although again, I have to qualify that statement by saying I have never heard that combo. I have M60s with an EP500.

Having towers as surround speakers might be overkill for some but for others, it's something to strive for. M80s err I mean M60s everywhere FTW!!!! (Can't be giving the M80 posse any ammunition.) laugh

Posted By: letigre Re: Speaker placement - 07/22/10 07:31 PM
Thanks for the replies Murph.

The Ax-5s are pretty big. They're old but still have a 1" tweeter, 5 1/4" woofer, and a 10" rear-ported sub in each and sound pretty decent. Since they're floor sitting towers, would they still be ok height-wise as surrounds? It's pretty enticing to think they could be moved there. I guess I'd place my AX-2 bookshelves in the rear and the m22tis to the front with a sub...

This is really a nice problem to be in!
Posted By: jakewash Re: Speaker placement - 07/22/10 10:33 PM
You still need a sub to get the LFE channel out of the tracks on DVD/BR's, unless those Ax5 subs have line level inputs and are not simply powered 10" woofers drawing off the speaker inputs.
Posted By: ClubNeon Re: Speaker placement - 07/22/10 10:36 PM
To expand upon what Jay is saying, receivers just drop the LFE channel when told "no sub", they don't mix it into the main channels.

So you'd have to somehow get the Sub output of the receiver into the Ax5s.
Posted By: tomtuttle Re: Speaker placement - 07/22/10 10:37 PM
Yes, what Jay said. I don't think the AX5 woofers are actually powered subwoofers. Big difference in extension.
Posted By: fredk Re: Speaker placement - 07/23/10 12:20 AM
The AX5 are an old speaker. As good as they were in their day, the M22 sub combination will most probably be superior. With a sub like the EP350, good placement and good room acoustics, you can reach close to 20Hz at reference for movies. That will give you a much more visceral effect in movies than the AX5.
Posted By: JohnK Re: Speaker placement - 07/23/10 07:37 AM
Tiger, reading the tests on the AX-5 in the August '88, Stereo Review, they measured the bass response(including the port output)as flat within +/-2dB from 20-250Hz. They emphasized though that the port output was the main contributor in the bottom octave and the distortion was too high to make it really usable that low. So, I'd think that the bass response was fine for most music(say not below 40Hz), but although it probably does a fair job now playing LFE in movies without a sub, a good sub would undoubtedly add quite a bit of effective extension and level in the bass.

I'd suggest adding a good sub to go with the M22s and using the four AXs as side and back surrounds if you want to use them rather than getting QSs.
Posted By: letigre Re: Speaker placement - 07/23/10 01:51 PM
Thanks for all the input everyone. Much appreciated.

I've decided on moving the M22tis to the front and buying a sub.

Now for the other question: Do my AX-5 towers become surrounds or rears or do my AX-2 large bookshelves become my surrounds or rears...

Thanks for all the input.
Posted By: ClubNeon Re: Speaker placement - 07/23/10 02:08 PM
AX-5s as surrounds, and AX-2s as rears. The surround channel still has more content over the rear.
Posted By: Murph Re: Speaker placement - 07/23/10 02:14 PM
Posted By: Micah Re: Speaker placement - 07/24/10 02:27 AM
Amazing that you are the first person I've seen on this board with Axiom speakers that old. I am assuming you bought the M22ti's used... have you been buying all your Axioms from the same person? Or did you just stumble upon Axioms and decide you really liked them?
Posted By: JohnK Re: Speaker placement - 07/24/10 02:33 AM
Micah, there're a few others who've mentioned those older models. Judging from the tests on the AX-2 and AX-5 that I read, Axiom was already making excellent speakers 20 years ago.
Posted By: Micah Re: Speaker placement - 07/24/10 04:32 AM
John, I was pretty sure there must have been others around here kickin it old school like that, I just haven't seen them mentioned in the almost two years I've been lurking around these parts. While I have no doubts the newer Axioms are much improved and refined, it would still be very interesting to hear these early models to see where Ian started with Axiom.

History question... Obviously Axiom pre-dates the internet. So at one time they must have had brick-&-mortar sales locations. So when was the very last physical Axiom store front closed, making them a true internet-only company?

Or were they a mail-order company previous to being an internet company???
Posted By: JohnK Re: Speaker placement - 07/24/10 04:39 AM
Axiom had a(primarily Canadian)list of dealers, one of whom posted here fairly often until about seven years ago when Axiom terminated the dealer network.
Posted By: letigre Re: Speaker placement - 07/26/10 01:30 PM
It's been a long journey with the Axioms. I picked up a pair of AX-2s on consignment years ago and liked the way they sounded. I then bought a pair of AX-5s from some guy for $100--best $100 I've ever spent. I know they're old but for the sound quality (they can be bi-amped as well) I can never complain. The new to me m22tis I purchased recently for *gasp $175 do sound a lot better in the upper registers and in the mid-levels than my AX-5s but not by much. I'm waiting to purchase a small sub before I move my AX-5s to the surrounds and the m22tis to the front.

So yeah, I figure I'll stick with the Axioms as I love their neutral sound and people keep on getting rid of them for far less than they're worth. I also encourage people to give older Axioms a try--you might be impressed.
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