whats going on with my EP500?

Posted by: Vanorge

whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 04:00 PM

im hopping to put some concerns to rest. i bought an ep500 in May of this year, and all of a sudden about a month ago. after not pushing my ep500 too much im starting to get a loud "CLACK" sound when it goes deep. "sometimes it's CLACK CLACK CLACK" sometimes just one. depending on how deep the soundtracks bass goes.
axiom has been cool about it, and they are sending me a new woofer.
my questions are these: is the clacking sound what is called bottoming out(it sounds like two sticks hitting hard)? also is it a woofer issue or an amp issue? also shouldnt the DSP prevent this, making it an amp issue? DID I BUY THE WRONG SUBi wanted a good one that went deep and one that i would not have to worry about breaking)?
Im not running it "HOT" either. i have two subs. my second is the SCII. for calibration I set up the EP500 up front and SC close to me. one at a time calibrated them to 73dbs then ran Audyssey. I have an onkyo 707 and when i check the calibrated test tone levels, ALL speakers measure to about or around 70dbs uncluding the subs
note: i never go above 0 usually for movies -5, which is loud but i like that. the sub was doing great! till this happend, im confused.
tx in advance and sorry bout all the questions, i just don't want to be worrying about breaking my sub thats supposed to be unbreakable? any advice encouragment would be appreciated. I'll also keep this thread posted after i recieve the woofer for those that might be looking into this sub.

for reference about placement: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Vanorge

could the riser have caused it to overextend or something? or is that just silly
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 04:04 PM

It's probably not bottoming out. Can you reproduce the sound (or make a softer, similar sound) by pushing gently on the woofer?
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 04:05 PM

Trying a new replacement woofer is probably the best course of action at this point. While the DSP is supposed to prevent the driver from bottoming out (which is one way to damage a driver), a woofer can still fail otherwise (without bottoming) over time. No sub is unbreakable.


Posted by: Vanorge

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 04:13 PM

Originally Posted By: kcarlile
It's probably not bottoming out. Can you reproduce the sound (or make a softer, similar sound) by pushing gently on the woofer?


yes i can. its not as violent of course but i can. it feels like it hits something when i push it in with my hands, but not everysingle time. if i push it in like 5 or 6 times it might do it once. then i get scared that i F'd it up even more LOL
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 04:15 PM

It sounds like the problem is the driver.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 04:15 PM

Definitely sounds like a bad driver. A new driver will take care of it.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 04:15 PM

"I'm a very good driver"...
Posted by: Vanorge

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 04:24 PM

sweet tx, so i should have it fixed by next tuesday. I'll be sure to get some bass heavy movies to test it out with, set it up the same way of course and hope i don't get that same issue.
i'll repost after and tx again guys. I was worried that the sub was just not able to handle reference or close to reference levels, with out it going out. i can deal with just haveing a bad driver
Posted by: fredk

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 04:28 PM

It is my understanding that with DSP, the driver should not be able to bottom out. Out of curiosity, does it sound OK otherwise? You would think that if the driver is broken to the point it bottoms out, it would not sound particularly good.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 04:30 PM

Also out of curiosity, how big is your room?
Posted by: fredk

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 04:32 PM

Mark. That should not make any difference other than not having enough bass overall.
Posted by: Vanorge

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 04:42 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
It is my understanding that with DSP, the driver should not be able to bottom out. Out of curiosity, does it sound OK otherwise? You would think that if the driver is broken to the point it bottoms out, it would not sound particularly good.


it sounds okay and well most of the time, it's just when it gets into the deep bass in movies, it makes that clack sound.like it can't handle it. not even my supercube does that and it's 8 inches, for a while i just let it go, and would turn down the bass, but i was watching "my name is khan" and it was just super annoying. I was like dude something is wrong!
Posted by: Vanorge

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Also out of curiosity, how big is your room?


its about 20x17x8-12 LxWxH
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 05:03 PM

Originally Posted By: fredk
Mark. That should not make any difference other than not having enough bass overall.

No, it shouldn't.
But sometimes you run across a person who thinks M2s will fill a 30X40 foot room or an EP500 will fill the room at 120dB...i.e., even though he said he wasn't pushing it hard, I was curious what the definition of "not hard" was.

Damn. I stepped in it again.

Straight Man for hire.... get 'yer Straight Man here!
Posted by: Vanorge

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 05:20 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Originally Posted By: fredk
Mark. That should not make any difference other than not having enough bass overall.

No, it shouldn't.
But sometimes you run across a person who thinks M2s will fill a 30X40 foot room or an EP500 will fill the room at 120dB...i.e., even though he said he wasn't pushing it hard, I was curious what the definition of "not hard" was.

Damn. I stepped in it again.

Straight Man for hire.... get 'yer Straight Man here!


na i completely understood why you asked. my room is not small but it's not Huge either. which is why i kept the SCII. i'll eventually get another EP500 (if it pans out) or an SVS Ultra.

its at the 10 oclock position roughly and like i said before I calibrated them carefully each to 73dbs with the reciver LFE level at "0" one at a time. then ran MULTY EQ.

in the recievers' LFE channel level after running AmultiEQ it rests at -7.I then rechecke levels with an SPL meter. and they measured together at 70'ish. im geussing max durring a movie about 100db or so, doubt much higher than that. no more than say 115 on a reaaaaallly loud part.

so yea im not running it HOT or trying to get the most out of it. just want it right, but when a movie gets bassy it clacks
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 05:24 PM

Naw, you've just got a defective or damaged driver. You'll be fine.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 09:54 PM

Mark, I'll leave the definition of "not hard" to others(Peter?), but I'll again point out that rooms don't have to be "filled" with sound at the level needed at the listening position. That term should be deep-sixed.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 09:56 PM

Hey, I was just saying that OTHERS want to "fill the room".... wink
Posted by: fredk

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 10:35 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Hey, I was just saying that OTHERS want to "fill the room".... wink

For that, we have beans.
Posted by: Philippe

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/17/10 10:55 PM

I had about the same problem with my EP350 few weeks ago. Axiom sent my a new driver and now everything sound perfectly. Good luck
Posted by: Vanorge

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/25/10 05:58 PM

okay got my new subwoofer yesterday and installed it. i have a few questions. does it matter how i hook it up. because there are two sets of negative and two sets of positive. so which set of negative and positive go on which side of the subwoofer? hope that makes sense.

i didn't get to calibrate it yet, as im doing that right now, but i did notice yesterday that it seems to be pushing more air out. before it used to suck in more than blow out. anybody know which way it's supposed to be. i would think out but you never know also could i have possibly gotten the connections reversed or better yet right!

tx
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/25/10 06:09 PM

You shouldn't be using the high level inputs at all--you should be using a single RCA connection between your sub and the LFE/Sub output on your receiver. The connector on the sub is a 1/4" to RCA right angle adapter, and it can be a little finicky.
Posted by: Vanorge

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/25/10 06:34 PM

no im not using high level inputs... i was talking about the speaker connections from the amp to the woofer. the ones inside the box
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/25/10 06:37 PM

Oh. Got me.

Can you take a picture for us?
Posted by: Vanorge

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/25/10 06:49 PM

i'll see how soon i can post some pics, i have my niece with me. tx for trying tho

but for now i guess its called the dual voice coil connections i think.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/25/10 06:56 PM

I doubt it matters; as long as you've got red to red and black to black, as it were, on both sides, it should work fine. Now, if you've got one reversed, that's not going to be a happy thing, but...
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/25/10 10:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Vanorge
i did notice yesterday that it seems to be pushing more air out. before it used to suck in more than blow out. anybody know which way it's supposed to be.

Vanorge, any subwoofer that is ported must port must blow out and suck in equally. If you believe you're feeling a difference, it's most likely because your hand is not a sensitive enough measuring device. smile

This equal-blow-and-suck isn't just a rule I invented, it's physics. Allow me to explain. In order to make a sound, the subwoofer driver must move outward and inward many times a second. Every time it moves outward, it creates a slight vacuum in the box which causes air to move in through the port. Every time it moves inward, it pressurizes the air in the box and causes air to move out through the port. Keep in mind that the driver is moving in and out anywhere from 20 to 80 times a second or more.

If the subwoofer port were actually blowing more than sucking, that would mean the driver was moving further and further into the box and not returning to the neutral position.

The moral of the story is don't worry too much about the air moving through the port. If you can feel air at all, that means it's working.
Posted by: Murph

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/26/10 07:59 AM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko

If the subwoofer port were actually blowing more than sucking, that would mean the driver was moving further and further into the box and not returning to the neutral position.


Not to mention that the constant reduction in air pressure inside would mean it would eventually either
a. implode
b. suck in your cat and other small objects
c. turn into a black hole from which nothing short of the the evil power of Justin Beiber's haircut could escape.

Chris will be along shortly to take my laws of physics humor seriously and explain the error of my theories.....
smile Just Kidding Buddy! smile
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/26/10 08:10 AM

:hiding my cat:
Posted by: Vanorge

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/26/10 01:46 PM

Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Originally Posted By: Vanorge
i did notice yesterday that it seems to be pushing more air out. before it used to suck in more than blow out. anybody know which way it's supposed to be.

Vanorge, any subwoofer that is ported must port must blow out and suck in equally. If you believe you're feeling a difference, it's most likely because your hand is not a sensitive enough measuring device. smile

This equal-blow-and-suck isn't just a rule I invented, it's physics. Allow me to explain. In order to make a sound, the subwoofer driver must move outward and inward many times a second. Every time it moves outward, it creates a slight vacuum in the box which causes air to move in through the port. Every time it moves inward, it pressurizes the air in the box and causes air to move out through the port. Keep in mind that the driver is moving in and out anywhere from 20 to 80 times a second or more.

If the subwoofer port were actually blowing more than sucking, that would mean the driver was moving further and further into the box and not returning to the neutral position.

The moral of the story is don't worry too much about the air moving through the port. If you can feel air at all, that means it's working.


i didn't measure with my hand.why would you assume that? I used a sheet of paper.I don't think i need nasa equiptment for the simple observation.

what would happen is, it used to suck in the paper more than blow it out. now it blows it out alot more, and harder to boot. i just thought it was strange.

regardless it's working well now. I calibrated it and watched gamer. i do have to set the subsonic filter to on though since i listen to movies quite loud. 100db peaks with my radio shack spl meter. for with the subsonic filter to off, it bottoms out. it made that same clack but just once.

my conclusion is it's a great sub, i just don't like that i can bottom it out at 100dbs with subfilter to off. im eager to try out the SVS ultra.

with it cutting out at 20hz its phenomenal tho.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/26/10 01:50 PM

If it's still clacking, there's still something wrong.
Posted by: Jc

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/26/10 02:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Vanorge
. . . it bottoms out. it made that same clack but just once. . .
i just don't like that i can bottom it out at 100dbs with subfilter to off. . .

Definitely something unusual going on . . . the DSP makes it impossible for the subwoofer to bottom out.
Posted by: Vanorge

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/26/10 02:44 PM

tx for the customer service JC. for those that have read up on whats going on, looks like kcarlile is right on. i gave a call to JC non other, and we're going to try and figure this out. it's looking like it might be an amp issue.

i was ready to give up and deal with the settling on my sub feeling but im glad i spoke up here and we can hopefully get this done right.
Posted by: fredk

Re: whats going on with my EP500? - 08/26/10 07:26 PM

Quote:
The moral of the story is don't worry too much about the air moving through the port. If you can feel air at all, that means it's working.

So, when your trying to decide if your 10 year old sub that you would really like to get rid of sucks or blows, your're saying its really a toss-up?