If I setup my living room for a 5.1 system the rear speakers will be next to the sofa - not in back

Question - would it be better to have 2 pair of bookshelf speakers for the front and rear or would it be better to have something like the QS4 v3 Surround Speakers for the rera speakers?

There are no "rear" seakers in a 5.1 setup, you actually have "side" surrounds. If you go 7.1 that is when you would introduce a rear pair. Something like the Q series works great for a 5.1 setup, much better than a bookshelf in my opinion. Since you have 2 tweeters firing to the left and right, it totally wraps you in the experience, which is the point of a surround.

How are you planning on mounting them? If you wall mount them it is best to have them 2-3ft or higher above your ears when seated. Is the sofa going to be pushed right up to the rear wall? What is nice is that the rear tweeter will direct sound towards the back wall, giving you almost a 7.1 experience.

I was planning to mount them on axiom stands - the sofa will not be pushed up against the wall - the speakers can be placed a foot or so away from the wall

Why not use 2 pair of QS4 v3 Surround Speakers for the front and side speakers instead of a pair of bookshelf and the Q for the sides?

If you mean using QS-4 for front speakers, it is definitely a not a good idea. I tried it for fun at some point, and it creates a very weird soundstage, a bit as if you were listening to a painting by Dali. For the front, you need precision in the location of objects. For the side and the rear, you need some vagueness to properly render the atmosphere. The Qs4/8 provides a good mixture of both (location + atmosphere) to be perfect for side and rear surrounds.

I've never heard about anyone using Q speakers for the L/R channel. Personally, I don't think it would sound right. Traditionally bookshelf, or towers for the front with Q's for the surrounds. I've heard that the QS8 sounds much better than the QS4. Go QS4 only if have to keep the cost down. Personally, I'd do without the QS4 until later and buy QS8 instead.

It would make good sense to use the terms this way, but I see "rears" often used to refer to the surrounds of a 5.1 system. Since the surrounds of 5.1 correspond to the side surrounds of a 7.1 system rather than the rear or back surrounds of a 7.1 system, the term "rears" is ambiguous, unfortunately, unless you know whether a 5.1 or a 7.1 system is under discussion.

Victor, welcome. As Eric pointed out, the bookshelves have the more precise imaging and are better for the front speakers, while the QSs give more of the spaciousness that's good for surround sound.

If you're going to place the QSs on stands, they should be spread as widely as possible, since they're side surrounds, probably almost up against the side walls. Since there won't be any 7.1 back speakers, it's a good idea to position the side surrounds a little bit(maybe 2')farther back than directly to the side of your listening position, to lend a little "phantom" back imaging.

The way my living room is configured it would not be possible to place the speakers 2' away from the walls - they will have to placed either next to the sofa or slightly behind but 2' is not possible

The room is on the smallish side - as I said it's a living room in an apt - it's appx 1600 cubic feet - 16'Lx13"Wx7'8"H

So - I was thinking of something along these lines for the speakers

Pair Millennia M3 Bookshelves
Pair QS4 Surrounds
VP100 Center

For the sub I was thoinking of the Epik Legend

John is not saying 2ft from the walls, he is saying you want them as far away from "you" as possible, which is why he said spread them as far apart from each other as possible. To agree with his comments, if you can slide them back a little so they are slightly behind the parrallel line where you will be sitting, it will help to simulate the rear speakers you won't have.

If you get stands it will give you some flexibility to experiment with positioning a little which is what I suggest for anyone who has the chance. If you have corners behind each side of the sofa you might try putting QS speakers right in the corners so that the tweeters are facing along each wall. I got really great results doing that in my apartment. It did make the bass a little boomy around 80-90Hz so I just set the crossover to 100Hz with no problem.


That’s almost the same as my apartment was 16x12x8 so I can say the speakers you have selected will work in a room that size however you might want to consider a different approach. For reference the speakers you are looking at 2xM3, 1xVP100, 2xQS4 come to $868 USD from the factory outlet.

If you plan on using a subwoofer all the time including music I would consider the following. 3xM2 (L/C/R) and 2xQS8 which comes to $840 UDS. The reason I suggest these is that having 3 identical speakers up front is considered ideal for a seamless soundstage and the QS8s are from what I’ve read noticeably superior to the QS4s. IMO the M2s sound identical to the M22s when crossed with a subwoofer at 80Hz in my present 21x13x8-12(vaulted) room and the M22 is a fantastic speaker. The M2 is not much taller than the VP100 and should fit under most displays. Also the M2 is a more neutral speaker while the M3 has a slight bass hump to simulate deeper bass for use w/o a sub. Not to say it won’t work great with a sub some people love it.

The M2s save you enough money to upgrade to the QS8s which will serve you better when you eventually mover to another larger room should you choose to build on your investment rather than replace your speakers later. Which is that other point in changing is creating a more viable upgrade path. The M2s and QS8s have the same driver complement as most all other popular Axiom speakers (M80, M60, VP180, M22) and will IMO better integrate with them if you upgrade later. For example, should you move to a larger room and which to upgrade to the M80s and VP180 the you could move two of the M2s to the rear to serve as surround back speakers. You could also then buy one additional M2 pair it with the third one you already had and use them as wide or height speakers in a 9.1 configuration.

Not that you couldn’t successfully use a pair of M3s as surround backs but the VP100 might not be enough in a larger room and I’m not sure how much you could sell a single used VP100 for. Plus by upgrading to the QS8s you have a more capable surround speaker for any size room but also one that will be much better in a larger room.

Also the factor outlet speakers are fine. 13 of my 15 Axiom speakers have come from the outlet and I’ve never seen a problem with any of them. Some people have reported very minor cosmetic issues but that’s all.

Sorry so long.
Cheers,
Dean

P.S. Build your own stands or purchase something locally and save some money. Even QS8 stands can be made or if put in the corner shelves could be cut out to allow for the bottom firing diver. That’s how I’m doing the ones on my back wall if I ever get in gear again

Vic, as Randy(sirquack)pointed out, I said nothing about 2' from the walls. Since your room is only about 13' wide, you need to use all of that in spreading the surrounds, so they'd be just about up against the side walls. The 2' I mentioned was just a suggestion to have them about that much farther back than being directly alongside you. Since you've said that the couch won't be up against the back wall, you should be able to move the surrounds back about that much.

As Dean mentioned, it would be good to use three vertical M22s across the front.

Dean, it's unclear whether the Factory Outlet still exists as such. It was announced Sept. 1 that the auction site was replacing the Outlet, yet there's still an Outlet section with the usual listings.

Edit: I note that the newletter said that the Outlet was closing 9/13. Curious decision in my view.

Thanks for pointing that out John, somehow I missed that in the last newsletter.

As you noted the outlet is listed but just in a drop-down menu now. However, I did play around with it which is how I came up with the prices I noted.

IMO Axiom doesn’t have enough “factory seconds” to make the outlet work as such. I’m still convinced that if no B-stock became available in the stated time frame they shipped A-stock so maybe they are just making it more specific to just handling true B-stock by putting it up for auction with some sort of minimum bid.

Might have to see if there is anything I need to order tomorrow.

I bet this will cause some consternation since a lot of people especially on other forums recommend the outlet but don’t frequent here much and won’t get the word. So people will show up here looking for it and yet another customer service issue will ensue.

Dean, I've also suspected that was the situation when the Outlet needed more supply. However, it's seemed to have worked quite well and been very popular. Whenever someone was having a budget problem we were able to refer them to the Outlet; now the auction process will be considerably more uncertain.

Yes the stability of the 10% discount is quite appealing. The randomness with which B-stock shows up from most other manufactures has always made using that option less desirable elsewhere.

Yeah, I think you are correct JohnK. With the auction you might be able to pick up a pair of speakers much cheaper (Axiom direct and not used) than what you would be able to get at the outlet, but if you are looking for an entire matching b-stock 5.0/7.0 setup, the auction will unlikely be able to provide that service. It would be a shame if they got rid of the factory outlet option.

I'll second this suggestion. I have two M3s in one room as fronts and M2 as center, but if I had to do it over, I'd use M2s for fronts (with sub), instead of M3s, for the reasons Dean gives.

Hi there, new here - but I just ordered from the outlet on Friday. Reasons are I wanted to get a whole setup all at once and not a big fan on bidding on stuff anyway. I guess today is that last day the outlet is gonna be around? Anyway, looking forward to getting my new Axioms.

That is a question you would have to ask Axiom directly. I know that it has been said that the auction was replacing the trade up program they had previously but I don't think anything has been said about all b-Stock being sold directly through the auction. It seems the factory outlet is running as it always has been, offering b-stock product (stock finish) with a wait period of 3-4 weeks. The direct items from Axiom in the auction setting are always in-stock and sometimes fall under custom finishes.

Enjoy your new toys.

The Q's are truly amazing surrounds. They are very forgiving with placement but you should definitely try a few locations until you find something that works best.

DH, note my comment above re the latest newsletter stating that the Outlet was closing on 9/13.

Thanks. Been thinking about the purchase for awhile now, figured I better act now while outlet still up and running.

Ordered a pair of the M80s and Qs8s and a Vp150. Should sound pretty decent from what I have read here and other places. Been thinking about this setup for awhile now and to my surprise these are v3s. Cool!

Thanks for mentioning that JohnK. I must have missed that part in the latest email newsletter that was sent (now deleted). That is an unfortunate change for sure.

Cheers.

"Pretty decent" may be an understatement! That is a step up from the Axiom's I have, and mine sound very good-chill inspiring.

Please let us know what you think once everything arrives and you get set up!

Yep sorry did not mean to down play my purchase.
I am really jazzed up by what I got...
Gonna be a long 3-4 weeks waiting.
Need a new amp now.
Was thinking about Emotiva or Outlaw amplifier.

Did not buy a sub cause I bought a SVS PC12-Plus a couple years ago.

Sweet sub. Loving mine!

P.S. FS is clearing out previous Denon receivers right now AVR-991 was $999.99 last time I looked.

Don't tempt me... LOL.
I must wait till I recover from the speaker costs first.
But oh so tempting to buy something soon.

PS. - Sorry to OP did not mean to hijack this thread.

That has got to be the greatest description of ANYTHING I have ever read on this forum.

I love Dali. Saw two of his originals in a museum in Boston years ago.

I got my entire 5.1 system from the outlet and was glad to save that 10%

Heard that, I agree.

I just thought to check and it seems that the factory outlet is still up. At least the link to it works.

When I was there last weekend, my buddy bought speakers from the factory outlet.

Hopefully the announcement re the Outlet has been reconsidered.

There was an anouncement reg the Outlet?

Newsletter, as referenced above.

It does appear the outlet is still there.

No Factory Outlet after Thursday .

I was always too impatient to use the Factor Outlet, but that's too bad for all of the people who liked using it. Still, this way probably does make more sense for Axiom.

Nice to know! The rest of the industry is slashing prices, but Axiom is closing its Factory Outlet.

I've only seen a couple of items go through the auction site and the last one, a pair of M80 v2s, went for $800! That's well more than 30% off. However, there is nothing there now.
There's always the Owner's Club, too. I'm contemplating a set of M2's for my new office at work, so I'll be watching both closely...

I always purchased A-Stock. However, it seemed what was popular with the factory outlet and what was attractive for a lot of new customers was to build an entire matching home theatre system all at once at discounted B-Stock pricing.

I haven't been been to the owner's club in a bit and now can't seem to find it. Is it missing or am I just missing it?

http://www.axiomaudio.com/ownersclub_main.html

Thanks Cat, it's now bookmarked. Couldn't find a link anywhere from the main Axiom page.

Waiting patiently for my order from the outlet... Or trying to wait patiently - oh where oh where are my speakers???