This may be a little long-winded, but please hear me out.

I recently bought some Energy Take 5 Classics and am loving every minute with it. I know it doesn't play as big as I know it should but it plays very clear and accurate in my bedroom. It is currently paired up with a Yamaha RX-V667. The reason I decided to go ahead with this purchase was because my Onkyo 606 crapped on me and I was tired of watching Blus in two channel mode with my Polk Monitor 60s. I figure this will hold me off until I can save up for the Axiom setup that I've been drooling over for the longest.

I bought the 667 from newegg and they had a deal that included a set of Klipsch RB-41 IIs for free. I just figured I'd get it and try to sell off the RBs and recoup some money. I was hoping to sell it new in box, but I just couldn't help myself. I had to try these little speakers out to see why it retails for $279. I decided to do some testing which was rudimentary at best.

I wanted to test how the RB 41s would fare against my energy satellites and my Monitor 60s. Without the complementary sub, the energys sounded small and thin - which was expected. Then I went ahead and tested the polk 60s and was quite surprised. I had told myself that i liked the little energys better than my previous polk setup, but the M60s were definitely louder and clearer. I was convinced the energys were clearer but it turns out I was wrong. I then tried the RB 41s, hoping for a good surprise. it turns out, I was a little bit underwhelmed. For being the smallest of Klipsch Reference series, I was hoping for a little bit more. Turns out my polk 60s came out ahead in that testing.

I then decided to mix and match my speakers to see the difference in a 5.1 setup. The 60s became the mains, and I had a standing energy sat. as my center. I moved the RBs to be surrounds. The sound seemed a little bigger but I could not really discern the difference. I then moved the sats. to surround duty and used one of the RBs as a center. I could definitely tell the center was louder and clearer. After the testing, I reverted back to my Energy speakers as my 5.1 system.

What did this test conclude for me? It just left me confused and concerned. Was my little Energy system that good that I couldn't tell the difference from supposed bigger and better speakers? I know that's not true, but my ears could barely tell the difference. I know my test speakers are not reference speakers by any means.

What concerns me is that if I eventually upgrade to Axiom speakers, will I be similarly underwhelmed? I am hoping not. From reading all the reviews and spending a lot of time reading the forum, Axiom speakers seem to take their owners close to audio contentment.

Please erase my concerns!

Seeking

The standard reply for queries similar to yours goes something like this...

(And FWIW, I really don't intend to come off sounding like a smart-a$$ here)

The only way to tell for sure if you'll be pleased with your purchase in your room is to purchase the speakers and connect them in your room.

If you're happy, then great, audio nirvana, it's all good, and you're pleased with your bang-for-the-buck factor.

If not, take advantage of Axiom's return policy and pay the meager amount to ship the speakers back.

Even listening to the same speakers in someone else's room is a nice demo, but it's not (OK, it's very unlikely that it's) going to sound exactly the same in your space.

My $0.02.

You seem to be equating "louder" with "better", which is actually pretty natural, but not really helpful. People almost always "prefer" the louder speaker; that's one of the reasons why objective testing is so difficult.

Without a switcher that allows you to level-match the speakers and go between them fairly quickly, it's going to be challenging for you to find your preference.

When you're trying to listen critically between models and/or brands, I don't know that it's helpful to include the surrounds and the center.

Better - I think - would be to stick to 2.0 (or 2.1 in deference to the Energy form factor) and listen to some well-recorded music that you are familiar with and enjoy. I'd use a number of selections for variety and to get a good sample size. Perhaps even do the listening on separate days, but use the same material to test each setup.

Listen to some material at moderate volumes and also at fairly loud volumes.

Likewise, make sure you experiment with the placement of each set of speakers, as that can make a world of difference.

I find my Axioms to be very detailed. If you are used to speakers with some bloat in the midrange or upper bass (which is pretty common), Axioms might sound "thin" at first. Upon longer exposure, I've found that they allow me to hear individual instruments distinctly, which is something I really like.

There are lots of good speakers in the world, and lots of ways to perceive value or contentment. The speakers you have are actually pretty good. You might find that the incremental difference is changing to Axioms isn't "worth it", or you might have am "Ah HA!" moment. As Kruncher said, your ears, your room.

Note, everyone, that the OP doesn't have Axioms yet. Not sure what Monitor 60s are, but they're not Axiom M60s.

I think they are Polks(Mon 60).

Tom,

You give some good advice. The energys are pretty good speakers for my room. I will probably be moving to a new base pretty soon and will do most of my movie watching in the living room. The space will definitely be bigger and I will be looking for more speaker to fill a larger room.

I guess I should have stated that the difference in each speaker is harder for me, personally, to tell. I think that is my biggest concern. That does not mean that I don't believe axioms are a cut above all the speakers I played around with today.

My disappointment probably has something to do with my expectations with my new receiver, too. I thought I was going to be able to hear a difference between different receivers but it is harder for me to detect. I probably will change my tune once I spend some more time with my new gear.

And, no, I do not currently own axiom's M60s. I own Polk Audio Monitor 60s. Sorry for confusion.

I wouldn't expect to hear much difference (if any) from the new receiver.

It's my personal opinion that some people will find a speaker like Axiom to sound better than most, while other folks won't. I have several friends who think I'm crazy for paying what I did for my Axioms. In that they can't tell the difference over a HTIB. Now most people on these forums would just roll their eyes at that but the point is while we see the value in Axiom speakers, other people may not.

My only advise would be to go to a store and sample some of your music on some expensive speakers. I know people will point out that listening to speakers in your own home is best. All I'm suggesting is to do something easy and free to get a rough idea of if you feel "elite" speakers add anything over what you already have. If you notice any difference then I believe you would probably fall in line with most people around here and find the value in Axioms.

Just to add to Ben's comments....

There are many people who don't see the value in stereo equip't period. They just want to watch a movie, TV show, or listen to music, and as long as they can make out what's being said or sung, they don't really care. Never mind they're missing half the effects of the movie, the nuances in a singers voice ect.

I guess we're all different....my neighbour spent $13k + on a Yamaha snowmobile and has used it twice this winter(now going into storage for next yr). He sees value in it, I don't(unless he used it a lot more). To each his own....

My mood about speakers just changed dramatically for the better. I was able to sell the polk monitor 60s to a friend/coworker and the RB-41s sold on eBay. All in the same day I was questioning my audio purchases. So in effect, I got a smoking deal for my Energy Take 5 Classics and my Yamaha RX-v667. I have just turned my frown upside down. Now I do not have to entertain thoughts of trying to build another interim system based on the Klipsch speakers that I got as a bonus. With that said, the only logical step for my next upgrade is to go with Axioms.

Don't get me wrong, I can see the great value and performance the Axioms bring to the table. From whatever I have learned and read about axioms, I personally feel like they offer the best value and performance for the price, if not the best value.

With no other speakers in my possession to distract me, I only have axioms to look forward to as an upgrade now. The only thing bugging me is whether to start off with the M22s, or meet halfway with the M60s or just jump in head first, when I do, with the M80s. I am prepared to be blown away.

Seeking

I've owned them all at one time or another, you can't go wrong with any of the choices. A lot depends on room size, listening habits, etc. The m60's and m80's will put out more bass than the m22's.

It is an entertaining game that I play when I think about which speakers to go with. One day I am sure which axiom model I want and the next I am unsure again.

I was so sure on the M22s as mains for a long time, but now I am leaning more towards the floor standers. If I bought the 22s, I would want to purchase the axiom speaker stands, too. That's already $700. Then I tell myself for a few hundred bucks more I can just get the 60s. Then when I think about the price of the 60s, I tell myself a couple hundred bucks more and I can get the 80s. Strongly leaning towards the 80s as my first purchase.

Initially I began looking at the M60s but once I was assured by both Axiom representatives as well as the board members here that Denons had no issues driving the M80s, I knew I had to get them. Might as well get whatever you want first time out...whether that be 60s or 80s. M22s are excellent speakers judging from owner reviews, but as you already are aware, if you require stands to go with them it tends to narrow the price gap. They're still a great buy for the $$ though.

Adrian,

In a perfect world, if the M22s did not require stands, I would jump on them with no questions. I was willing to overlook the decrease in value of purchasing stands with the M22s for a while but I know I will want M80s eventually anyway. I figured why mess around and get it right the first time. It is a great thing the 667 has a pre out for an external amp if I ever require one in the future.

I always look at it like this:
If you buy $700 speakers from a manufacturer and put them on stands, 7/10 of your final price is going towards the sound.

If you instead buy $1000 floorstanders, 100% of your final price is going towards the sound.

Seek, of course the purchase of the Axiom stands isn't mandatory. There are less expensive ones commercially available and very satisfactory home made or improvised stands running from $0 up can be used. The bookshelves are better buys, at least where a good sub is going to be used anyway.

I've listened to M3s, M22s and M60s. In my opinion they are all perfect in specific situations.

What I haven't listened to are M80s, and I'm very curious if they add value over the M60s... for me anyway.

They add 20 more value units!

My first purchase was M80's and man, I have never been so pleased! When I first turned them on I was watching golf and the ball hitting the ground made me smile so wide because it was like I was right there.

Hi Seeking,

I assure you that you'll be thrilled with the neutrality and transparent musical accuracy of the M22s (if you pair them with a good subwoofer) or the M80s, compared to your old Energy Take 5s/Polk setup. I know the sound of the Energy Take 5s (quite decent but a bit edgy--exaggerated in the upper mids, which emphasized sibilance in my auditioning), however, they're not in the same class at all as the M22s or M80s.

It really depends on the size of your room and whether the M80s might be too large to ideally set up for a great soundstage. The virtue of the M22s is their versatility in setup because they're smallish and compact. The M80s are big, heavy, and tricky to place in a modest-sized living room. By the way, I have both systems on a switcher setuup in my modest living room (13 x 19 x 9.5 ft) and much of the time switching between the M22s and M80s with the subwoofer running, I can scarcely tell the difference.

If you have a big room (3,000 to 5,000 cu. ft or larger), then get the M80s, because they're capable of extremely clean playback in a big room at high sound levels.

Regards,
Alan

Seekinganswers,

I was in the same situation as you back in November. I started out seriously thinking about the M22's for my fronts. Then my thoughts changed to the M60's. After some soul searching I figure what the heck, I should just go with the M80's and never look back. I'm so glad I did, my M80's have met and exceeded all my expectations of what music and movies should sound like. Like you said in your previous post,

"... but I know I will want M80s eventually anyway. I figured why mess around and get it right the first time."

IMHO if you've got the $ I would suggest doing it right and going with the 80's, you'll be glad you did.

Alan,

Thanks for the breakdown of the differences in my old/current gear and the comparison to the axioms. When I do get my axiom setup, hypothetically, it would probably be placed in a living room setting with a size of 15'x20'8.

I do like my Energy Take 5 classics but I have already come to experience or hear its limitations, and lot of it sounds like what you described. They sound small at moderate volume and "edgy" at higher volumes.

On the other hand, owning the classics has got me curious about some of their other speakers. I know the Reference Connoisseur series is out of production, but what do you guys think of the RC-50? How do they compare to the M60s and M80s?

Seeking, I auditioned some Energy's a couple of years ago(RC-70)and though I did not do a direct AB with Axioms, they seemed a bit muffled or veiled to me compared directly to some Klipsch speakers I listened to at the same time. Energy builds some good quality speakers but my feeling is you will get more midrange clarity with the Axioms. I haven't listened to the newer Energy's however, so I don't know how they'd compare.

Seeking,

I never heard the Energy Reference Connoisseurs or the RC-50s, but I did hear several versions of the Energy Veritas (the V2.4 and V2.3) floorstanders, which were the top of the line about 5 years ago. They were very wide-range and uncolored, similar in neutrality to the M80s, but a little bit dull through the midrange --- not quite as much detail as the M80s/M60s/M22s-- and much more expensive than the M80s.

If memory serves you can see that mild dip in a Soundstage.com NRC anechoic frequency-response curve for the Veritas. The midrange is down about 3 dB or so compared to the Axiom M80s, and that was quite audible in my auditions of the speakers.

Regards,
Alan

Excellent! Your M80 club secret decoder ring is on the way.

Is the V3 decoder ring an upgrade over the V2?

Yup. Decodes are smooth and buttery with a hint of chocolaty...

Great, I'm anxiously awaiting shipment. Hopefully it'll be the right size.

My 1st Axiom purchase was the QS8's after an audition from a local owner. Next the M22's I used for stereo. After a couple years I purchased some M80's, Vp180 and some QS8's...I sold all my old Axioms to my neighbour.

To make a long story short, get the 80's, they will rock your world!