I have a buddy who is having a new house built. He and his wife want to buy a flat panel TV. Their current TV is a 27" CRT Sony.. non HD TV.

They would like to spend no more than 700$, and My buddy wants it to last at least 10 years.

I told him that i though a plasma would be a good idea, however i do not know how long plasma's usually last? I think LED/LCD last longer? With LCD tv's not having as nice of a picture as a plasma.

They were also told by a sales person at Best Buy that they will want external speakers, the sales guy recommended a center channel speaker array thing, that was not super expensive but would get the job done.


My buddy is not big into HT, as you may guess from the 27" CRT non HD tv... So i would like to be able to give him a realistic product to look at, however i don't know much about what is available with flat panel Tv's. I am hoping that some of you guys can help me help my buddy.


Thanks!

P.S. he is hoping to buy a TV on Friday when he thinks he might be able to get the best deal at Best Buy. I know Amazon sells a lot of TV's if there is an online retailer that you guys recommend i think he would be ok with that.

If glare for windows or lights may pose a problem they may consider LCD or led.

My plasma for the bedroom is rated at 100,000 hours. That's easily more than 10 years of viewing.

I think there should be several tvs in the 46- 50" range under $700. My dad just bought a 40 or 42" Samsung led from sams for $499.

how does he like the Samsung? My buddy brought up sam's... I thought that i had heard that sam's some times has questionable products with regards to their TV's like B stock sold as A stock, or used and not advertising it as used.

I would look at Target (or where-ever) that has Visio LCD's for $700. They have better off angle viewing that most LCD's. But, I doubt if any of them would last 10 years. 5 would be more realistic.

The 'center channel speaker array thing' you mentioned is a sound bar. Some come with a seperate subwoofer. Not being into HT it's probably a good idea for his use. Most of todays TV's have very small speakers on the bottom. Listening to the news they might sound OK, but he will want something better for movies. They vary greatly in price.

GTZ, is there any brand to look for. Either good or bad?

Alex

Alex, in the December issue Consumer Reports has their latest TV tests. The top-rated plasma in his price range would be the Panasonic TC-P46S30, which, for example is available from Amazon for $727 with no tax and free shipping.

As to improved sound, I don't really like the idea of an intermediate step such as a sound bar, as compared with a relatively simple setup with an inexpensive receiver and small separate speakers.

Thanks John, i just e-mailed him your response. While i agree about the sound bar, he just wants something simple.. They aren't that much into TV.. or HT for that matter... They want something as simple as possible.

I would agree with the idea of better speakers, far too many of the flat panels out there have very poor SQ. I have only listened to a very few sound bars and to me they sound a bit bloated, muddy but certainly better than the stock speakers of the TVs they were paired with.

My dad just Bought the Samsung and I don't thing he has even booked it up yet. While the panel life is rated at 100,000 hours on my plasma in sure something else will go out on it before the 100,000 are up... (or it will be outdated).

Well, let me suggest something just about as simple as a sound bar, but should sound a bit better. This little Onkyo HTX-22HDX sub/speaker package(built-in sub and speaker amp)is on sale at 20% off during Black Friday weekend. The refurb would run about $173 with free shipping, taking into account the 20% and $10 credit for registering for "Club Onkyo".

Don't know what your budget is but this is a good inexpensive start: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...em=130603314091

You can spend alot more if you can/want. I wonder when Axiom will get into the soundbar business?????

Time will tell.....I believe the sound bar idea was mentioned back when Axiom was looking or new ideas/direction for them to head into.

Why do people continue to cling to old information which even in its time was over exaggerated?

Early generation plasmas were listed as having "short" life spans because of their industrial use (they were not marketed for home users until the late 1990s). For example, a plasma screen in a store front window could be used as often as 24/7.
Of course they would only last a few years at this rate. [this is a simplification of the plasma application but demonstrates the overall point]

Stores use the same adverts for weeks before changing them which then sparked the second "myth" about plasma tv and burn in. The myth is that this phenomenon is unique to plasma tvs.

ALL tvs will burn in and image onto the visual screen if used in this manner!
ALL tvs will burn out if used this much!

Rating a present day plasma tv at 100,000 viewing hours equates to 34 years of viewing at 8 hours a day!
If you are watching 8 hours of that screen per day, you need help.
Incidentally, a store that uses a plasma 24/7 in its front window would have about 11 years of use, based on the 100,000 hours rating.

/end rant

I don't think i was posting any information, instead questions. The question was posed because of my not knowing the "true" half life of the noble gas's used in plasma's.. Since i have no experience with plasm's i was asking people more educated on the subject than myself. (notice the question marks)


So, I see no point for a rant on this subject. However, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

in the end, it is a rare plasma or lcd or whatever technology that will not last until it's replaced with a new one.

CRT's have the very same problem of image retention/burn-in.

Of course you have all heard the urban legend of the husband who had to eat a compromising Polaroid photo of himself & his secret lover and then died of a bowel blockage because the Polaroid paper wouldn't digest.....

Now that, my friend, is Image Retention!

Exactly, Chess, and to add to your rant, some years ago there was a study of the longevity of the LCD flat panels that run 24/7 in large airport terminals. The result was that based on home viewing by consumers (an average of 5 hours per day, which strikes me as watching way too much TV), LCD panels should last about 15 to 20 years. Keep in mind that video screen longevity--LCD and plasma-- is based on the degree to which the panels dim by 50% compared to a new set. The same phenomenon occurs with CRT sets, but the dimming of the image and loss of contrast is so gradual that most viewers don't notice until it becomes gross. I recall a CRT set of mine that was into its 14th year when it became obvious that the brightness and contrast had diminished.

While I'm in the rant mode, I'm weary of this exaggerated reverence for the Pioneer Kuro plasma sets. In all of my comparative viewing, including receptions by Pioneer, I would rate the Kuro sets as "quite good", but not equal in image quality to the plasma sets from Panasonic and Samsung, which provide really stunning images. I think the Kuro thing is a product of group-think, seeded by some reviewers. In my opinion, the Kuro sets were always overrated and overpriced.

End of my rant.

Cheers,
Alan

your opinion of the Kuro is interesting Alan. I think you are the first person in the audio video world that i have read to say that the Kuro was "overrated". I was reading reviews of the panasonic VT30 the other evening on Cnet, and the reviewer was saying it was "almost" as good as the Kuro, but not better.... I have only seen a Kuro a couple times; The display models at Best Buy when they were a current product. So my experience with the Kuro's is very limited...

But chess, I heard that the plasma leaks out and has to be refilled at least once a year.

Alex, note that Amazon has a deal now on the 46S30 for $615 rather than $727.

Thanks John,
I just sent him a txt.

And you better get the winter plasma installed, the summer stuff doesn't work in the winter but the winter works OK in the summer due to the lesser time spent watching over the summer.

what about the monster upgraded plasma? I read it would up your 768p to a 4k

And for those do-it-yourselfers, here's a way to grow your own fish plasma, and save a few bucks.

Hi dakkon,

Reviewers at Cnet are not immune to psychological bias. If they know a flat screen like the Kuro is priced at a couple thousand dollars more than a Panasonic or Samsung plasma, then the thinking goes like this, "well, it costs $4,500, so it must be better."

This kind of thinking has been disproven through years of double-blind tests of loudspeakers and amplifiers, most of which were done in Canada, in which I've participated as a professional reviewer for more than 25 years, and I believe this biased thinking exists in video reviewing as well.

A few years ago, at the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas, I'd rush back and forth between the Pioneer demo booth and the Samsung and Panasonic booths comparing the image quality of similar-sized flat screens, and each time I'd conclude, "I just don't see it" in the Kuros. They looked very good, but as I said earlier, if anything, the Panasonics and Samsungs delivered a more vibrant picture. At the time, I thought, well, perhaps the Kuro sets weren't set up as carefully as the sets in the other demo booths.

And I'll acknowledge that I've not been in a room with different brands of plasmas set up beside the Kuro displaying an identical picture with the brand names concealed; however, my judgements of image quality have been honed over many years and I trust them. Besides, if I'd seen an obvious superiority in the Kuro image over the Panasonic and Samsung plasmas, I would have bought a Kuro.

Personal bias plays a role here as well. I like a vibrant, brilliant picture (not one with the set run in the "torch" mode used for retail stores); maybe the Cnet reviewer(s) have different criteria. I previously worked with several of the Cnet guys at a defunct electronics web site (etown) that fell victim to the .com boom and bust, and we didn't always agree on image quality of sets in the test room.

Regards,
Alan

Cnet's criteria is simple - listen with your ears and watch with your eyes.

I just scratched with my finger.

What do you think the reason for this being performed in Canada was? Do you think that the big brands have a much farther reach in the U.S.? I.E. advertising dollars with the companies that are reviewing their products?

I can understand how it would be hard to impossible for a somewhat niche market to be able to provide a truly objective and critical opinion of a product.. There are only a few manufactures of audio video gear and a limited market for people who are "really" into this stuff, if a reviewer roasts a bad product then that company would almost certainly pull any and all advertising, and not send the reviewer any more products.

I would also guess that many of the reviewers do not use "scientific" methods.. or double blind comparison to a reference product. As that is the only way you can get a true comparison with minimal bias.


On that note, Alan, i am glad you mentioned the Kuro as i was in the process of hunting one down.. They are QUITE hard to find now, new with low hours anyway... I will feel much better about buying a new generation panasonic/Samsung for about 1/2 of what the Kuro's are going for if you can find one today...

Timmies and better air...

Or, more likely, the people who developed the methodology happened to be working at or around the NRC in Ottawa at the time.