Just bought this house. This is the old setup for the family room. There is a 42" or so TV there now for perspective. The new TV is a 65" Panasonic Plasma already owned (yes I know LCD would be better in this room). Will be redoing the whole wall to fit the new TV. Budget is flexible. The main purpose will be 85% TV, 10% movies, and 5% music. This is supposed to be a casual experience so absolute volume and max fidelity are not critical but I would like a good setup. There is a basement theater coming soon so movies are not critical. The ceiling behind the couch has the same speakers you see in the front ceiling. I'll probably leave those in for surround if they are sufficient. They are an unknown brand. I don't have access to the house yet to check them out.

how deep would you guess that recess is 2-3'? I have M60's and my speakers are 14 3/8" away from the wall, and my VP180 is 12 1/4" away from the wall... That is measured the closest point of the speaker to the wall. The M60's are toed in..

If i had just bought a house with a room like that, i would do like you said, make the TV area bigger, keeping it in the center. Then i would get rid of the L/R shelving area's. I would also put some cloth material on the L/R recesses so that the speakers are not inside a tunnel, I may or may not keep the top 2 shelves on the L/R. You may/may not need that shelving for components/or dvd's.. If you have no use fr them, then i would get rid of those shelves.. how large are the shelves behind the glass doors? if they are about 19" now, when you rebuild the area, you will loose some of that room.. Which may result in your being creative with the wiring for your receiver/processor/amps/DVD player, what ever components you are using in that room. Do you have a center channel? For that size of a room a VP160/180 would be ideal in my opinion as that is a pretty big and open room. Again, if it were me, i would attempt to keep my VP180 about 12" from the wall, and try not to box it in to much.


Not knowing what speakers you already own, or if you do own any for this room makes any advice kind of difficult. If you do not already own speakers, i would say go with all incabinet speakers, as it will make your life easier when "rebuilding" that wall... just make the correct size holes for the speakers, slide them in and done.

I think for what you want and already have in the room will be sufficient for now and spend all your money on the basement HT then come back to this room and adjust accordingly.

AB, at this point I'd tend to agree with Jason: concentrate on the HT in the basement. After you've heard how those ceiling speakers sound for TV watching you'd have a better idea as to what, if any, improvements you'd want to make.

The room is a clean sheet. The whole cabinet will come out and a new one built in it's place. Some might be saved, but the 65er is a lot bigger and won't fit in the cabinet.

I have m60s, a vp100, a SVS pb12 nsd, and qs8s. I plan on using most of those in the theater with an upgrade to a 160, so the vp100 will be available, but I don't want to compromise on the equipment for a custom cabinet. Do it right the first time. The speaker cost is immaterial here.

The cabinet is maybe 2 feet deep.

I'm not leaving this room as is. I'll be in this house for 30 years so I'm doing it right and doing it now. The theater will take much more effort so it comes second.

I didn't want to taint any suggestions with my thoughts, but I'll go anyways since that probably tells you how far I am willing to go.

I was thinking about in cabinet m60s. Their height is the same as my TV which makes the cabinet come out looking nice. I was wondering if I could mount them upside down so the tweeter is at the bottom of the TV, more in line with the center. For a center I was thinking I could do 1 of 2 things, 160 below the TV, or a slot for either my vp100 or a vp150. The slot is probably a better look than the large 160 and will allow more drawers in the cabinet design. Since this is for TV mostly, I was thinking I could get away without a sub, but I will build a cabinet in the bottom left corner that could fit a sub and I'll prewire it but I'll probably do shelving there instead. If I decide I need a sub, I can add one.

So, any ideas on this? Should I go m80s instead? or maybe m22s and a sub? What shoudl I do with the center? Can I mount the m60s upside down?

If i was in your shoes, i would not go any smaller than a 160 for that room... I have a 17'X18' family room with 8ft ceilings.. i had a vp150, and the 180 that i have now in my opinion is a better match... When you figure in your vaulted ceilings, you have much more cubic space than i do, not counting adjacent rooms.


In that room, i would either go with M80's or 60's and maybe a 8-10" sub or no sub.. For casual TV watching, a sub will add a lot of volume, and a lot of TV shows add WAY to much bass in the sound track's, i find it annoying some times with my system, the audio people are programing for the least common denominator, someone without a ep600+..... I am going to assume that you are going to have a cable box in the theater room? So, if there is something on cable that you want to view in "HiFi" you will go to that room anyhow.. This room is for family TV time, or what ever...


I dont think that i would personally worry to much about keeping all of the tweeters in line.. My center channel is on top of my 60" 2000ish era DLP... So, my center is probably 2-3' higher than my M60's, i have it angled down and it sounds find to me..

You could always do an incabinet vp160, and also use the vp150 and run dual centers... The 150 doesn't have any ports, so you could easily build a box for it as well....


The incabinet M60's are just over 15" deep, so you should be good with depth for them. The incabinet VP180 is 17 1/2" deep, they do not have the incabinet 160 listed. However, i think they are in production?? I don't think the 160 would be any deeper than the 180..



Also, Ian and Co. will be introducing a new speaker on the weekend of the 24th... i dont know if that speaker would work for your application or not, as we dont know much about it.. But i would wait before buying, or call and ask JC/Brent if it would be an option for this room... The new speaker is suppose to be "VERY" good...

Don't forget your camera/and or to take lots of photos when you start reno... Everyone here likes seeing everyone else's projects

I have an SVS sub right now in my current family room that is turned off most of the time. TV just doesn't seem to play well with a sub capable of low extension. Dancing with the Stars is probably the worst offender, though we haven't watched that show for years.

So that's why I'm ok leaving out a sub. But I do want to have enough bass to make music sound good, and to give action scenes some punch. I don't need to feel it in my chest, but I'd like to be able to hear it. My setup now with m60s providing the bass is quite good, though it is in a much smaller room of about 16x20 that opens to the kitchen from an 8 foot wide opening.

I'll use this system way more than I will ever use a theater. I spend the vast majority of my time in my family room enjoying music, TV, and movies while caring for my 5 month old twins. So this project comes first.

Also, this project is not to get better sound in the family room, since some nice bookshelves, a center, and a sub would sound fine and work within the cabinet, it's to replace that tiny TV. It's a huge bummer they built such a nice media center and only built it for a 40 inch TV for a room that sits 16 feet away. What a waste. But at least I'm not having to put the TV above a worthless fireplace...

I would just tear out the entire cabinet where the TV is currently mounted. That would then make a decent background for a 70-80 inch tv with a pair of M80's to either side.

This looks like a great opportunity for in cabinet speakers. I'd probably go with M60's. I'm not sure if Axiom is making an in cabinet VP160 yet, but they do have an in cabinet VP180. I suspect they'd make you an in cabinet VP160 if you asked. As far as a sub in concerned, there's no where to hide one in that room, so I'd go big and good looking. EP600 is maple or rosewood?

Ahem!

What a beautiful home. I hope you and your family will be very happy there for many years.

I'd do in-cabinet versions of the M60 and VP160 and decide later on a sub.

Thanks for the nice picture - expecting more later.

Enjoy!

YA, but your special..... I knew you had one, but they dont have it listed on the website yet..... Did you happen to measure how deep it is?


I was in a similar situation.. The amp on my EP600 was dead for about 4 months before i realized it (I'm in school and usually study in my bedroom)... When the semester was over last spring, i was in the family room watching something... and thought.. Hrm, something sounds off.... Anyhow, without the EP600, everyone was able to turn the volume up with out disturbing people at the other end of the house (me). So, for that that reason, i would agree completely with going without a sub.. Also, keep in mind, that 70%+ or so of the broadcast material comes from the center..

Many people on the forum, think that the VP160 would be a better overall speaker than the 180, because the 160 is suppose to have better off axis listening. However, the 180 will play lower than the 160. For that reason, in your situation i would get the 180.

Now that's a great idea I hadn't considered. The cabinet is in a recess in the wall. Will it look ok to leave it blank? This would allow me to upgrade the TV in the future to an 80 inch OLED when they are available. Any ideas for a wide TV stand that can hold a 160 or 180?

Another option is to tear out just the top section of the cabinet and leave the bottom half and finish the top. That would give me a built in with room for a big TV and bookshelf speakers flanking it.

Mine is 15 inches from contact with wall to end.

I don't know for certain. It's between 15 and 24 i'd say. I'll measure all this when I am allowed into the house a bit later. I don't see any issues with depth really.

Tearing out the entire cabinet would give that wall a cleaner look. You'd still have the wood look on the remaining wall. One problem I can foresee is what to do about the floor where cabinet used to be. The best looking solution would be to find a way to extend the existing floor into that space. You might have to make a seam going across the floor there to accomplish that. You'd want it as flat as possible in order to mount some floor standing speakers in the future, maybe.

I think your asking the wrong group of people... I would be ok with it being a black background, with some open concept shelves for components, and then the TV/speakers... But, you'r asking a group of guys "will it look ok" in regards to HT/Stereo stuff... depending on how accepting your wife is, this is a VERY subjective question .... if your wife is like Amie (Ian's wife) who is very accepting of random stereo stuff showing up at her home, with the only stipulation being that said stereo stuff is in a color that matches her decore ... Then you should be good to go..

I think the majority of the group here, would be ok with exposed framing, if it meant that they had an 80" OLED tv in their future.....

http://www.salamanderdesigns.com/
This company makes VERY good quality items. I have some of their stuff. You pay for it, but in my opinion it is well worth the money. Depending on what rute you decide to go, you could blow out that wall, paint it, or put some type of fabric or something on the recess walls, and then slide in a piece from the company above. I think that would look quite nice... maybe put a black movie theater cloth on the walls, to give you some what of a movie theater feel, the back background behind any tv would also make the tv look better i would think?


Good luck!

P.s.


He could make a small landing maybe 4"-6" or so, like they do in HT rooms. That would be as simple as some 2X4's some ply wood and a bit of carpet.. Depending on how elaborate one wanted to get.

I hadn't considered what to do with the floor under the cabinet. That's going to be an issue. This should blend in with the rest of the family room and not draw attention to itself. The wall behind the TV will be white like the rest of the room. My wife is ok with a large TV and floorstanding speakers as long as they don't draw attention to themselves like a huge black wall. This is the main great room in the house. It is not a theater and should not look like one. But, refinishing the floor will probably be as expensive as a whole new cabinet.

You guys are giving plenty of good advice and you have the most experience with the Axiom speakers I'll be putting in. So, posting here has been fine.

Maybe the best way to make this work is to build the base of a cabinet that mimics the bar and fills the floor space. That would leave room for a TV sitting on the cabinet and some bookshelf speakers beside the TV. That would leave me with upgrade potential down the road, but would limit me to bookshelf speakers. Unless of course I just put m60s or m50s on the shelf. It might work since the TV is actually taller than an m60.

I really think this is the way to go. Basically, mirror what you have at the bar (a counter-height built-in all the way across the width of the existing opening/casework). Don't get a separate stand for the TV; make the "counter" deep enough for it to sit on. In the middle of that counter-top, depth isn't going to be an issue; you can have it stepped-out to get whatever you need while still keeping the ends of the counter-top flush with the sheetrock.

I'd do an in-cabinet VP160 (or VP180) right under the TV. Then, get some M22's to sit on the countertop.

I think - even if you had the depth for them - sitting floorstanders on the counter-top will look decidedly weird. Just too imposing. The way to overcome that perception is to have them be in-cabinet models that are part of the larger whole installation. Since this is "the main room" and you have WAF to deal with, a pair of M22's and a sub might be a better (and much cheaper) alternative to floorstanders and lots of custom casework. Get them in real wood to match the rest of the installation.

The stand I was talking about was the TV's built in stand rather than wall mounting it. I edited the previous post to make that clear.

I like this idea of a lower cabinet. But, instead of building an upper cabinet with all that expense and having it limit future TV upgrades, I can simply fill the top part with drywall and make that deep enough for in cabinet m60s so they would look like in wall speakers. Some paint on the in cabinet m60s and white grill cloth would bend that in with the wall behind it. this is sounding quite good. Thanks.

Would it make sense to mount the in cabinet m60s upside down so the tweeter is at ear height, and is closer to the same height as the 160 in the cabinet? Or could Axiom do a custom front baffle with the mid and tweeter at the bottom of the speaker?

It seems like Alan commented on inverting the in-cabinet speakers, but - regrettably - I don't remember the gist of his recommendation. I think the answer is going to depend quite a lot on interaction with other room boundaries.

Now I'm thinking why not just go with m80s and a vp180. The bass response from the 80s is supposed to be better, and without a sub in this huge room, it should be worthwhile. If I can fit them in (they are really deep) then I'll go m80s and a vp180. I'm still thinking upside down towers would improve the soundstage until anyone says otherwise.

Thanks for the help. Now I have a plan for the contractor. Lets see what comes out of this.

I think this is the inversion post from Alan I was thinking of.

The answer seems to be "try it and see". If money's no object and you have the mounting depth, nobody ever seems to be sorry later for buying "the best one".

You might want to just kind of sketch up the overall layout with some dimensions and run it past the folks at Axiom.

Have fun. Remember, need more pics as things change.

More pics? Here's a pic of the basement for the upcoming theater. Unfortunately the kid's rooms are directly above the proposed theater which will got at the far end of this picture. Those doors at the end are just closets. One contains the water heater. The space is bigger than this picture shows, and there is plenty of room to move the pool table closer to the kitchenette.

Nice basement, I think I would be inclined to leave it as is and use the TV upstairs for everything.