So I got rid of my Athena P2, it just would not mesh well with the m22ti's at all. Hard to explain, but after a couple of weeks of playing around with it, I gave up. I liked the sub by itself, and I like the speakers by themselves, at that's the problems. When I was playing music, I did not hear them as one, but individually. Part of the problem I am sure was that most of my listening is at low levels due to being in an apartment.
So this leads me to my new search. I am looking for a sub, in the sub $600 range that will play well at low volumes (hard to quantify, but any of you apartment dwellers can related).
The obvious choices so far are the HSU VTF-2, the SVS PB1-ISD, or the SVS 25-31 PCi. I am leaning towards the 25-31 PCi right now, just because I like the cylinder shape, and all three get equally great reviews. Anyone have any opinions on what would make one of these three better than the other. I have no problem going with a cube if the overall consensus is for the VTF-2 or the PB1-ISD as I have never heard ANY of these subs and have no chance too. Everything I can purchase locally that I like is out of the price range.
My order is going in on Monday, as I hope to have the sub in by next weekend.
Thanks for the advice!
I can personally vouch for the PB1-ISD. It integrates seamlessly (to use a cliche) with my M22ti mains. The only drawback to the PB1 is its size. It takes up a rather large chunk of space. If you take size into consideration when figuring out your best bang for the buck, I think the VTF-2 wins hands down.
The 25-31 is also great. I performs similarly to the PB1-ISD, but you can tune it by plugging one or two ports. Also, the cylinder design takes up much less floor space and is easier to tuck into corners.
You basically can't go wrong with any of the three subs you're considering.
I had to select between the VTF-3 and the PC+ 20-39 - decided to go for the SVS based solely on its footprint - I couldn’t find a way to place any of the box subs in my living room, unless of course I wanted to call it a footrest
I dont think you can go wrong with either of these brands - they both offer amazing value. Curtis and I are planning a little SVS PC+ 20-39 vs. HSU VTF-3 shootout in the coming weeks... We will be sure to keep you posted!
We are?? Guess I got to find a way to "move" my VTF-3.
damn right, I'm just gunna show up one day... lock your doors!!!
anyone care to address my "low listening level" concern? Does anyone have experience and could say how well these would mesh with rest of the speakers at low listening levels?
VTF-2
'nuff said - again.
anyone know how to fix a broken record player that just keeps repeating? =)
give it a good, stiff whack. It'll either stop playing completely or mysteriously repair itself.
I know spiff has been able to mesh his VTF-2 and Axioms well....and he also lives in an apartment.
At low listening levels, I do not think you will hear much difference in any of those subs, but it would make for an interesting test. Because I have heard the VTF-2 and what it can do, that is what I would recommend.
The new STF series also looks very promising. In talking with Hsu Research the other day, Dr. Hsu says the driver in the STF-10 is just as good as the driver in the VTF-2. I heard the STF-8, that thing did well with LOTR, I would not hesitate using that in a small room.
Marcus, on your "low listening level" question that you're especially interested in, there's no sub that somehow has a special advantage over other similar subs when the level is low. Due to the Fletcher-Munson effect both low and high frequencies sound less prominent in relation to the mid-range as the level gets lower. Changing subs can't change this; to make the sub louder at low levels you increase the sub level setting.. All of the subs you're considering are excellent(if you go with the 25-31, ask Tom to custom-tune it to 22hz at no extra charge, which results in a little more extension and a little less "punch", which is all to the good), but unless you clear up whatever problem you had with setting up the Athena you may still be disappointed.
Did you say "record player"? I haven't heard that phrase in years.
Made my choice and ordered the 25-31 PCi. Thanks for the advice....although I think I had my decision made already. Just wanted to make sure there wasnt a compelling reason not to get the 25-31 PCi or something that made another sub stand out above the rest.
Shall we start taking bets on how long before I am asking to turn it down by my fellow apt dwellers?
'true bass' is not nearly as annoying as over-emphasized 'mid-bass' -- you know the kind you hear coming out of that annoying car next to you at the stop light or gas station? That kind of bass warrants a immediate phone call.
Boomy mid-bass -- the next-door neighbor will call you, complaining.
True bass -- the neighbor will call 911, scared.
Well, If my very recent expirence (about an hour ago, after having the sub hooked up for 10 min) is to be used as an example, I give you about 3 seconds - it took my neighbor, who is 20' away, with trees and a 5 foot fence in between, about 5-10 seconds to cruise over and see what the hell I was killing...
A link to the post at avs if you are interested:
Chat session with curtis
Happy subbing! FYI - I have the SVS PC+ 20-39
What would be the recommendation between the SVS 25-31 PCi (with the custom tuning suggested by JohnK to 22Hz) and the SVS 20-39 PCi. If the performance is almost similar, then the (22)-31 seems better since it is shorter height while also getting some real lows ??
The main advantage of the 25-31 over the 20-39 is that it is capable of higher SPLs.
If you are an organ music lover (like me) who likes the 16Hz low-C pedal tone, go with the 20-39 or whatever maximum-extension model. Or even better, go with the SVS PB2-Plus or Hsu VTF-3, which both feature a variable port tuning.
hi pmbuko - from the chart at SVS website (http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pci_performance.htm), it looks like the 25-31 and the 20-39 are pretty close, with the 25-31 having slightly higher SPLs for the 40+ Hz range and the 20-39 having higher SPL for the below 25Hz range. Are you saying this is a pretty significant difference that the 25-31 has in the 40+ Hz region ?
Also, if the 25-31 is custom tuned to 22 like JohnK suggested, then wouldn't it become even more close to the 20-39 (actually, it might lose something in the higher range since it has a smaller volume than the 39 ?)
Will an vanilla 25-31 still have some reasonable energy at the 20 Hz or should I ask for the custom tuning ? I am hoping to pick one of these two if I can get my wife to sign off on the cylindrical sub idea ;-)
Otherwise, I'll have to look at the much heavier (and more expensive) PB-ISD1 box.
cheers.
Seek, you've got it about right looking at the curves. Not that it would make a big difference, but the 22hz tuning would increase output a bit around 20hz and decrease it a bit up around 40-50hz. Flatter and more extended is a little better, although the standard 25-31 does have significant output at 20hz.
On appearance questions, note that a cylinder can be placed horizontally with the driver in the corner, if that's more acceptable.
SVS is known for their excellent customer service. I'd try giving them a call. They'll talk you through all your options and recommend the best sub for you situation.
I sent them some questions on friday with a diagram of my room as well. But haven't heard back from them yet -- I even sent a reminder today. We'll see if they get back to me... I want to make a decision quickly so I hope they come thro'.
this would be the first time that I have heard that they have not gotten back to someone within hours. Maybe they got hit with the blaster virus.
yeah. it is kinda weird after all the good comments I have heard about them here. My friday email was addressed to Ron (and it was copied to Eric and Tom as well since Ron had copied them in replying to my previous email). I sent the reminder today only to Ron.
I'm actually very surprised by this. Every time I have emailed SVS (roughly 7-10 of them) they have responded within 16 hours. I tend to send off emails at 12:PAC and they are eastern, so makes quick replies even harder. Either way, they have always been super helpful - and I'll state again, QUICK!
I hope this is just some fluke (lost in the mail? lol) -
Could be their e mail service is down. The Internet and e mail services have been spotty since the attack of the worms and viruses. I know my ISP has been up for only about 20% of the time since August 16.
Too bad I'm not in Ohio. I would be over there really quick to fix their computers. The only payment I'd ask for is a PB2+, or two.
Hey Audioseeker;
Someone let me know that we seem to have left a prospective customer hanging without a reply. I checked and we don't seem to have any note with a diagram attached that we didn't reply to in the last week and we don't know your email address (so we don't know if it was a note we did reply to). The latest email worms have definitely tied up a lot of email servers; ours haven't been knocked out but some notes might be getting lost in the internet ether.
Ron is tied up today so he might not have seen the reminder you sent yet either. Please send the diagram and email to me at erik@svsubwoofers.com and I will make sure that we address it immediately.
Hi erik,
thanks for following up. I sent you the note again at 3:15 PDT. If you still don't get it, maybe something really odd is happening with your email system or mine. You may also wish to enable "private message" in the forum so I can try sending you via that instead.
I sent an email to Ron last Monday morning I believe...never heard back from him. I thought that was kind of odd as well since he emailed me 3 times on the Sunday before.
thanks, everyone who commented, and the svs guys. They managed to dig up my email and Tom responded to it. To avoid "what-if"-itis, I decided to go with the 25-31PC+.. It should have enough SPL and gives the ability to shift down if I think I am missing something. Excited and waiting for it. Now to hope the man-in-brown delivers it safely !
btw, forgot to ask -- is it important to use some sort of shielded cable for the sub hookup ? What are some reasonably priced brands for that (and price ranges) ?
Yes, you need a shielded coaxial RCA cable. Any RCA audio interconnect will do. If you need a relatively long cable run, get a long composite video cable. It is often much cheaer than those overpriced ones that are sold as "subwoofer cables" by Monster et al.
Here are some examples.
The simplest thing to do might be to just pick up a shielded coaxial cable with an RCA plug at each end from RadioShack. You shouldn't pay more than about a dollar a foot and could do even a little better with a source such as sushi suggested or
here .
SVS will sell you a discounted subwoofer cable from BetterCables when you purchase a sub. That's what I ended up doing. Can't complain.