Looking for some advice...

Posted by: Belgarath

Looking for some advice... - 05/27/12 11:56 AM

Found this site yesterday and figured I would ask a few questions of the resident Axiom experts.

I am upgrading my entire HT set up, the only thing left to do is add a new HT/surround speaker package.

Been doing some research and have narrowed it down to 3 or 4 possible manufacturers.

Axiom...obviously.

Asperion.

PSB.

Totem.

The PSB and Totem's I can demo in person easily enough, but from the things I've read about both Axiom and Asperion they are very highly thought of.

I have a medium sized room, about 15 feet by 17 feet and there is plenty of carpet/fabric/drapes to help "deaden" the room, and am looking to spend about $2-2500.00(I don't need a subwoofer, I bought a new one recently)

Any thoughts?
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/27/12 01:08 PM

Welcome Belgarath. You dont mention what the WAF ratio is but you have some options. Use the HT Wizard on the home page and just eliminate the recommended sub to get started. It all depends on if you want a large tower or something less imposing.
How much room do you have for a center channel , the VP 180 and Vp 160 are very large.
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/27/12 01:19 PM

Hi Belgarath welcome to the forum. M60's for your fronts. VP-160 for the center. QS8 for the surrounds. All this gear come very highly rated, from the members, along with some others. There are reviews you can read both, professional and by people who have purchased this audio gear here on this web sight if you haven't already located it.
There is also a HT wizard(purchasing tool) that could be of assistance too you as well. Call Axiom, speak with one of their Representative, they truly are a great company to work with. There will be a number of forum members that will try to help assist you in your potential purchase. Have fun, and again welcome aboard.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/27/12 03:34 PM

Totem is pricey for what you get. PSB makes good speakers, but I thing you need to go at least to a mid line speaker before you approach Axiom quality of sound. I have not listened to Aperions.

As far as the Axiom line, they all have the same neutral sound. The M80's have a slight advantage in the midrange and treble over the M60 or M22. Not a huge difference mind you.

Once you add a sub to the M22m it sounds almost identical to the M60. I had a hard time telling the difference in a direct comparison where I could flip back and forth with a speaker selector switch.

So, it really depends what you want to fit into your room.
Posted by: Belgarath

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/27/12 04:50 PM

Thanks for the welcome and advice Socketman, Gary Vose Sr. and FredK.

I was looking at the M22's and I think the VP 160 would fit nicely in my listening room.

What really got my attention was the near universal praise for the QS8's, and Axiom's reputation amongst the online audiophile fraternity.

Also being a Canadian company is a big plus for me. I have 4 Paradigm's, 2 Clements, 2 Mirage's and 2 Signet's in my collection. But I want a Matched set of speakers for my new HT.

I have a question...does Axiom make their own drivers? Not that it's a big deal but I am curious.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/27/12 05:35 PM

Yes, they do, although the smaller ones are built at an Axiom owned factory in China. The sub drivers are built at the Canadian factory, where the speaker assembly also happens.
Posted by: Joe_in_SC

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/28/12 09:10 AM

The M22s are pretty amazing speakers if your space is tight. However, if you're considering the VP160, you'd be a lot better off matching that with M60s (assuming you have room for floor standing speakers). Add the QS8 surrounds and you'll have an excellent system in that size room.
Posted by: Belgarath

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/28/12 09:45 AM

Thanks Ken.C, just about everyone has a factory in China these days but it's nice to know they make some of the drivers here.

Joe in SC...that is the Big question. I calculated the room size, it's about 2300 cubic feet. Right now I have my pair of IMF Mk IV's for my stereo, and they are massive so I think a pair of M-60's wouldn't be too big.

It's a difficult choice...but fun at the same time.:)

What do you all think of the VP 150 center channel? I've read both positive and negative views on it. If I go bookshelf instead of floorstanding speakers I gather it is a better match than it's big brothers.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/28/12 10:47 AM

My room is 2400 cubic feet, and opens to the kitchen, as well as the formal dinning room. I upgraded from a vp150-180 and am very happy i did. If you have room for the 180 i would say to go that way i always felt that the 150 was to small to blend with my M60's well, the 180 blends perfectly...

You can read Andrews reply here... Simple answer is, yes Axiom manufactures all of their own drivers, as well as their cabinets in house up in the cold north....
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=370119&page=2
Posted by: cb919

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/28/12 01:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Belgarath
...

What do you all think of the VP 150 center channel? I've read both positive and negative views on it. If I go bookshelf instead of floorstanding speakers I gather it is a better match than it's big brothers.



I would stick with the VP-160 or 180 if you are going with a horizontal center. Have you considered vertical center? If so you're best option is simply get 3 M60's or 3 M80's for your LCR if you have the room.

Otherwise I wholly agree with the praise for the QS8's as surrounds. It was the quest for a better surround speaker that 1st led me to Axiom several years ago now. Good luck!
Posted by: grunt

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/28/12 01:55 PM

Iím with Dan in that you should consider a vertical center. Iíve tested the M2 as a center for the M22s and crossed over with a sub it matches perfectly. A single M2 is also a hell of a lot less expensive than any of the horizontal centers and really isnít that much taller than any of them. As an added bonus the M2 and M22 are Axioms best speakers when it comes to price vs. performance. Here is a review/comparison of the older v2 which has since been improved upon.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0509/aperion_intimus_5b_axiom_m2v2_paradigm_v6.htm
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/28/12 02:49 PM


Belgarath - Is that from the David Eddings series? I loved those books.
Posted by: Lampshade

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/28/12 02:57 PM

Dak,
I think Axiom owns their own factory in China and that's what he meant by "in house"
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/28/12 03:08 PM

Aside from the good advice given already, I would also suggest the M60 or M80 for that matter, over the M22. Yes, the M22 is technically smaller but they still need some room as well, and you will need the added cost of stands which bring them closer in price to the towers. Re the centres, I haven't heard either of the larger ones, but people who have compared or heard the VP150 vs VP160/180 pretty much agree the two larger ones have greater range, detail and clarity overall.

Enjoy
Posted by: Belgarath

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/28/12 07:44 PM

Originally Posted By: michael_d

Belgarath - Is that from the David Eddings series? I loved those books.


Indeed You are right michael_d, I loved all of Eddings Belgarion books.

Thanks again to everyone for their comments.

I hadn't really considered an M2 for the center channel...let alone another M60.(Can you order just one??)

Right now I am thinking of:

Pair of M60's
VP160 with stand
QS8's with stands.(Wall mounting is not an option in my room the way it's configured.)

Or a step down:

Pair of M22's with stands
VP160 with stand or VP 150 or M2 as suggested.
QS8's with stands.

There really is no way to screw this up, the 30 day trial period gives me confidence to experiment and make sure I get the right package for my needs.

I would also like your opinions on the "wall mount" version of the M2's , M3's and M22's.
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/28/12 08:50 PM

Belgarath, I don't know if it's applicable in your installation, but Axiom offers up ceiling mounted brackets also for their QS8's.
If it is possible you might consider it so you're not giving up additional floor space.
Posted by: Belgarath

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/28/12 10:38 PM

I have the floor space to accommodate the QS8's Gary Vose Sr., the stands will do nicely. It's just the way the room is built.

The reason I asked about the "wall mounted" versions was for my sister, she is thinking about a surround system herself, and those would be perfect for her living room and keeps the wires out of the way. Add the QS8's for the rear on stands and she would be set.

After I get mine set up I'll get her to listen and see what she thinks.
Posted by: cb919

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/29/12 09:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Belgarath
...

I hadn't really considered an M2 for the center channel...let alone another M60.(Can you order just one??)


Yes, you can order just one. In the product page there is a link to 'add single speaker to cart' just below the yellow 'add to cart' and 'customize yours' buttons.

Why not order a vertical center and the horizontal center and try both to see what works best for you in your room?

Originally Posted By: Belgarath

There really is no way to screw this up, the 30 day trial period gives me confidence to experiment and make sure I get the right package for my needs.

I would also like your opinions on the "wall mount" version of the M2's , M3's and M22's.


I have the in/on wall M22's and in/on wall M2 for center (replaced my in/on wall VP150). Let me know if you have any specific questions. I like them very much but they absolutely need a sub. Once paired properly with a sub I don't feel like my system is giving up too much to the bigger versions. However getting the full bookshelf version will give you more flexibility in placement options, toe in etc... Compared to other on wall speakers I have heard they more than hold their own at far less of a cost.

Cheers,
Posted by: Joe_in_SC

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/29/12 09:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Belgarath

Right now I am thinking of:

Pair of M60's
VP160 with stand
QS8's with stands.(Wall mounting is not an option in my room the way it's configured.)

Or a step down:

Pair of M22's with stands
VP160 with stand or VP 150 or M2 as suggested.
QS8's with stands.

Given that you have the space and $, go for the M60 package. I have both the M22s & M60s. If you step down, you'll be more susceptible to "upgradeitis". That means you'll end up with both sets...which, on second thought, just might be the perfect solution!
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/29/12 07:54 PM










Given that you have the space and $, go for the M60 package. I have both the M22s & M60s. If you step down, you'll be more susceptible to "upgradeitis". That means you'll end up with both sets...which, on second thought, just might be the perfect solution!

I agree with Joe's first two points, your first option, which on my first post here I recommended. This hits pretty much the middle of your stated budge. You will have more, and larger drivers energizing your room, I can't see how that would be a bad think.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/29/12 09:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Adrian
Aside from the good advice given already, I would also suggest the M60 or M80 for that matter, over the M22. ...

Heck, just go for the LFR1000s. Why settle for second best? grin

The M22 + sub is almost indistinguishable from the M60. The big advantage of the M60 is the bass extension for two channel music.
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/29/12 10:15 PM


Heck, just go for the LFR1000s. Why settle for second best? grin

The M22 + sub is almost indistinguishable from the M60. The big advantage of the M60 is the bass extension for two channel music.

Fred, If a M22 + his sub is almost Equal to a M60, then wouldn't a M60 + his sub be considerable better?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/29/12 10:50 PM

Gary, if the same sub is used in both cases, obviously the bass handled by the sub will be the same in both.

As to the mid-range, keep in mind that the M22 uses two of the same 5 1/4" drivers, while the M60 uses one. Although this isn't a "huge" matter, the M22 does have the ability to play a bit louder in the all-important mid-range.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/29/12 11:52 PM

Just to point out, the LFR's also have 2 5 1/4" laugh
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/30/12 01:05 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
Just to point out, the LFR's also have 2 5 1/4" laugh


They have four!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/30/12 07:10 AM

For that matter, the M80s have 2. How ya gonna fight for your M22s against that, John? wink
Posted by: Belgarath

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/30/12 09:53 AM

I always enjoy the repartee that good friends indulge themselves with in forums. smile

So many helpful comments, making this decision even more difficult.

After thinking things over I am really leaning towards the M22's for now with the QS8's. For stereo listening I have my vintage gear which still sounds amazing so the new rig will be mostly for movies. And if I do decide to go "Big" later, I can simply slot the M22's into the "High" or "Wide" position.

I have to go out of town for a few days, but will let you know next week when I have placed my order.

Have to add I have looked at some other "Speaker Forums", but this one is by far the most fun I've seen, and if you pay attention you'll learn a few things as well.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. grin
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/30/12 09:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Belgarath
Have to add I have looked at some other "Speaker Forums", but this one is by far the most fun I've seen, and if you pay attention you'll learn a few things as well.

Well, you're obviously doing something wrong! grin

Congratulations on your decision!
Posted by: exlabdriver

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/30/12 02:47 PM

I have a couple of M22V3s perched on a couple of 10" Velo subs (as stands).

At just over $500 per channel, this wonderful 'bang for the buck' combination.

No upgraditus here...

TAM
Posted by: Joe_in_SC

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/30/12 02:56 PM

Belgarath, you'll be very happy with the M22s. As already noted, they play really nicely with a sub. If and when you move up, the M22s make a great secondary system for a bedroom or as fill speakers, like you mentioned. My guess is hardly anyone here gets rid of their M22s when they upgrade.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/30/12 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Just to point out, the LFR's also have 2 5 1/4" laugh


They have four!


Grr... Freaking rear speakers!!!.... grrr.r.r.r.r.r.r.r.r.r.r.r.r.r.r.r.r.r.r.r.......


Not that i am frustrated at my oversite or anything......
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/30/12 06:12 PM

Hey dakkon,

Is that your dog in the background lately, looks like he's training you. laugh
Posted by: Gary Vose Sr

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/30/12 08:04 PM










Right now I am thinking of:

Pair of M60's
VP160 with stand
QS8's with stands.(Wall mounting is not an option in my room the way it's configured.)

Or a step down:

Pair of M22's with stands
VP160 with stand or VP 150 or M2 as suggested.
QS8's with stands.


Belgarath, you went with your second option, but what center are you leaning toward? smile
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Looking for some advice... - 05/30/12 11:26 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
Hey dakkon,

Is that your dog in the background lately, looks like he's training you. laugh


Nope, that was the cat!... you have seen the dog... He's a 100lb German shepherd.. He would say GrrrRrrrrrrRRrrrr

wink
Posted by: whippersnapper

Re: Looking for some advice... - 06/01/12 06:07 PM

Belgarath,
I guess I'll chime in here, too. I went with the M22s, QS8s and the VP150 for the center when I put my modest HT together a few months ago. I can tell you that it all sounds, well, really good. This is in a fairly big log home great room with a vaulted ceiling that peaks at 20 feet. The seating is only about 8 or 9 feet from the main speakers. Frankly, I had no room for a bigger center and my seats are spread pretty wide. I liked the idea of two spread tweeters in the center to widen the sound field for dialogue. The system plays very clean (it sounds like near field studio monitors, to be honest) and loud enough to shake the logs (with the help of my Klipsch sub). I have no doubt that either the VP160 or the VP 180 would be "better", but I still think the VP150 is a better fit (both sonically and aesthetically) to the M22s.

Anyway, I have no regrets whatever in how my system sounds, especially when I remember the modest price.