Hello,
I am new to Axiom and looking for a bit of help with a possible receiver upgrade. I am in the process of upgrading a small home theater with a pair of on wall M2 speakers, and plan to also get either a pair of M3 or M22 bookshelf speakers.

I have a 10 year old (cheaper) Yamaha receiver that came in a 'home theater in a box'. It does not have any HDMI inputs or any of the other newer features like Airplay, iPod interface etc.

My questions:
1. Do I need to upgrade my receiver to maximize the potential of my new Axiom speakers or will my current one do?
2. I plan to also get an Apple TV. Do I need all of the fancy features like airplay and streaming, or can I just buy a basic Denon receiver that has HDMI inputs and use the Apple TV to do the streaming.

I am not an overly technical person, so anything that makes it easier to just watch a movie or listen to music is a plus. I am certain that I will not use or understand many of the features available in many of the receivers I have looked at. Simple = better.

Thanks again,
Coal

As for 2, you don't need the Denon. You can just use the ATV for all the Airplay stuff.

Hi Ken,
Thanks for the reply. So are you saying that I don't need to upgrade my receiver, or if I do I can just get a basic 5.1 HDMI receiver? If so, any specific suggestions? Thanks again.

No

yup




You did not specifiy if the Apple Tv was your only source. Do you use a cable box, dvd/blu ray player? Or, is the Apple Tv the only source you use?

Here are a couple denon's. these are in the 300$ range.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-s...Receiver/1.html

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-s.../Airplay/1.html

If all of your sources have HDMI, and your TV has HDMI, then i would think about this one, which is less expensive than the above options. The one below is 200$

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-s...Receiver/1.html


I have personally bought stuff from this company. To this day the items that i bought from them, 8 years ago get used on a daily basis. Good luck.

Coal, if you have the "new" Apple Tv, the Black one you WILL need a new receiver that has HDMI to use the Apple Tv. The new Apple TV only has HDMI out, it does not have component out anymore.. If you have the orignal Apple TV, like myself, then you may not need to upgrade.

Sorry, I meant you don't need a receiver with Airplay.

Hi Folks,
Really helpful advice. Many thanks. I think I will get a new receiver that has HDMI, but not the other features as I will be getting a new Apple TV unit.

Dakkon, unfortunately the company you linked to does not ship to Canada or I would definitely have moved on one of those Denon receivers. I would like to keep the receiver cost around $500 so will compare the Denons to the Marantz 1403.
Thanks again

I can almost guarantee that the Denon will have more features at that price point than the Marantz. That said, an Onkyo at the same price point will have more than that.

OK, seems like I need to focus on the Denon and Onkyo receivers. The Marantz did seem expensive for what it had. Super helpful...leaves me with more room to play with on speakers.

I managed to locate a Denon AVR-1912 ($375) and an AVR-1712 ($299) leftover from last year. I think I will grab one of them before the end of the day. Thanks again for the advice.

So last night I picked up a Denon AVR 1712 for 250 bucks. Last one in the store, and they wanted it gone.

Next question: I am now thinking about getting a pair of Axiom bookshelf speakers as part of my home theater upgrade. I was thinking of either getting a pair of M22 or M3 speakers. I have a very small area to fill. I sit about 10 feet back from a 46 inch TV, the room is about 10 feet wide, and the ceiling is lower than the standard height (basement).

Although I would like a pair of M22s, I think they may be a bit much for such a small space.

Thoughts?

Thanks, really helpful forum.
Coal

as long as you have enough space for your speakers, they will not be "too much".
have a look at my room-my equipment - link in my sig. - it's about 9 x 9 x 16 ft
and the speakers i have are not too much.

Wow. Nice. M22s it is. Thanks

Follow up to my last post...

i'm not decided yet, but there are good chances that i will buy
another subwoofer in the next few months, not to replace this one, but as an addition.

would that be too much for my room?
of course not - everyone will tell you for sure. ;-)

Too much? What does he mean by that?

I'm surprised someone didn't suggest a pair of M80s for your fronts.

by "a pair of M80s", do you suggest i should stack them up 2 + 2 ?
if so, i would put the top ones upside down.

i'm real brilliant! ;-)

I've had M3's and M50's and now have M22's. Do yourself a favor, get the M22's.

I'm using my M80s for height speakers, now that I have the LFRs. I think it sounds amazing watching BD movies and my room is only 14'wide, 20'long and 8'high.

No wife, eh?

There sure is, and I got hell just the other night.

M80's for HEIGHT speakers?!?!

Dude.

Need pictures.

right on, too much is never enough

So, there is something i can use my M60's for.... Thanks, Shawn.

Oh Mr. Brown, you're a brave man!

Coal, the objective isn't to "fill" a space, it's simply to have an adequate volume level at your listening position, so distance is a more significant factor than room size. The 10' distance you mention is pretty typical for home setups(including my M22s). At that distance the drivers blend smoothly and your 1712(very good buy, incidentally)will have the power to supply more than a safe(to your hearing)listening level. So no, they can't be "a bit much" and you're the one in control of the listening level.

M22s ordered! Thanks all.

So sitting next to me are two M22s and two M0s...very hard not to take the rest of the day off to set this stuff up.

Question for all the helpful people on this forum: I plan to run a blue ray player, a cable box, and Apple TV into a receiver with HDMI cables, then run the speakers and one HDMI cable out to the TV from the receiver. Without getting too complicated, does this sound sensible?

That sounds completely sensible. It's what I do, pretty much. As long as you always watch TV with the receiver on.

Absolutely.

It does mean that you'll have to have your receiver on all of the time, though.

I run a second connection from my TiVo to the TV for those times I'm watching late at night and either don't need to have the receiver on, or wish the TV to turn itself off via it's sleep timer (and I don't want the receiver to remain on all night).

Great, thanks. Now to decide on the first CD and movie to test with!

I can't believe you didn't take the rest of the day off.

I cable the way you described. Mark just likes to make things complicated. I'll bet he has, like, five remote controls on his coffee table, too.

More questions:
1. Do I need a surge protector?
2. Are there huge differences in HDMI cable quality?

1. It wouldn't hurt.
2. Not particularly.

Hi Coal:
MY OPINION ONLY is that I would get a surge suppressor, even if only for the TV, BD player, etc. Some feel that a surge protector is unnecessary and will even limit peak electrical draw from amps, receivers and subs.

There are some that believe that cable types make a difference, but of them, the majority involve analog cables.

An HDMI cable simply transfers Ones and Zeros.... so any cable should do if you don't have any really long runs.

Many like Monoprice for cables. Their inexpensive (but work just fine). Sometimes, I've found their cables to be a little stiff, but they're still my primary cable source anyway.

That's what she said!

Mark covered it well, for a change. (j/k Mark; you know I love you).

I use a surge suppressor. I'm pretty sure that - if my receiver thinks it has enough electricity to work - I'm not going to be able to hear any difference in sound quality.

I buy the higher-gauge HDMI cables from Monoprice, because they're still really cheap, and it makes me feel like I'm doing "something". Plus, I mostly like to get the 10' ones because I just hate cords that are "too short".

I use a UPS, but that's for my TiVos, mainly. If there's spinning disk involved, I want that protected as well as I can.

Ken, what do you recommend? I used to have my DVR and RPTV plugged into a Tripp-Lite UPS that I got at Costco for about $120. But it ultimately just kind of stopped working, and I hated that SOB for the noise it made whenever the power fluctuated anyway. So, now, I'm just kind of living dangerously (partially because the DVR is leased from DTV and I want to buy a new plasma anyway).

If you can swing it, I'd always go with an APC Smart-UPS of the appropriate size (say, 1000VA). However, I couldn't swing it, so I went with a [url=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N19W[/url]

Which had the added advantage of having surge only outlets on it, and a silence-able alarm.

Bad link, Ken.

Better?

$200?!?! But, I really don't think that thing is going to lift ANY veils.

It's got a bluish display. How could it NOT lift veils?

Only marginally.

Hey, that's my line! Oh my god, we do share a brain!

The Denon 1712 has an HDMI out port that can be configured as a pass through. Using this port for the cable box will allow you to watch TV with the Denon off. Then, if you turn the Denon on it will automatically redirect the audio to your speakers, an awesome feature. One thing you should be aware of with the 1712, which drove me crasy with my ipod until I finally figured out what the mysterious manual was talking about, is that this unit will not convert analog video to digital. This means that if you run only HDMI to your display then you can only display a digital signal, to display an analog signal such as from an ipod or the component out from your BR you would have to also run component cables to your display.

A surge protector is a good idea but NOT the plug in surge protectors you are probably thinking about.

If you are the homeowner, to properly protect yourself from destructive surges from entering your home and finding ground via your electronics or appliances you must first apply earthed ground surge protectors to the incoming electrical, cable and utility services. This would act essentially as a single whole house protector. Destructive surges destroy electronics but they also can destroy your home appliances.

A surge protector such as this installed to the inside panel and earthed to the homes ground is a good first line of defense. When it works you will never know it because it will take the surge and harmlessly ground it. Plug in protectors and UPS devices are ineffective in this regard.

Or you can call your electrical company and they can install something similar on the outside line. I believe you can even rent them from your electrical company.

But either way, these type of protectors are not very expensive. Actually it is cheaper cost /unit of protection.

http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Leviton-51120-1-Whole-House-Surge-Suppressor-Surge-Protector/p.aspx

These guys make good protection products also.

www.zerosurge.com

Wow. So this weekend I spent far to many hours setting up my new home theater (M22s + M0s + Denon Recevier). Even after reading all of the reviews, the Axiom speakers exceeded expectations. I hear things in CDs that I had not heard before and movies are far more enjoyable. I tested music with Leonard Cohen and Bob Dylan and video with District 9 and The Lorax. Incredible.

A few questions/quirks that some of you may be able to help with:
1. No matter what I do, I can't seem to get 5.1 surround sound working on my AVR-1712. At best, I can get stereo pushed through all 5 speakers. Thoughts?
2. My non-Axiom sub (Yamaha) never seems to work, even though it is getting a signal and worked during the receiver calibration test.

What source are you trying to use--and how is it connected?

Set up is as follows:
PS3, Cable box, Apple TV into receiver with HDMI cables, one HDMI cable out to TV. I am trying to get 5.1 audio from the Blueray player (PS3).

Did you run the Audyssey setup? If you are running HDMI from your BR the Denon should be automatically decoding that signal. I would check the settings in the BR first. A very helpful site for setting up your Denon is http://batpigworld.com/.

Thanks mreed. I ran the Audyssey setup and the it tested and calibrated each of the 5.1 speakers. I will give that website a try tonight.

I'm not familiar with the PS3. Is there a menu option that is needed to output 5.1? In other words, does it default to stereo output?

Are you sure the other sources are Dolby Digital 5.1 capable?

Check the settings in the PS3 first, if everything worked properly while running Audyssey then it is most likely your PS3 settings. I dont know anything about the PS3 so I cant really help you there but if it is setup like a typical BR player then you should be able to designate what type of signal it sends out and/or the speaker configuration.

Super. Many thanks for all the advice. I will test tonight and report back with findings.

Here's the guide that I used to get HD audio codecs to work with my PS3 and receiver.

Good luck!

Very informative article from medic8r. I recently had a similar situation and it was the main reason I sold my HK 645 and bought the Denon 1712. One thing you should be aware of when following the instructions in this article is that your sub level may have to be manually increased in the Denon by 10db. Your situation is somewhat different than mine was and this may or may not happen but you should be aware of it.

I'd better frame this.

In other news, airborne pigs were spotted in Fredericksburg today ...

Great stuff folks. After I tackle these two items, the only thing left for me to do will be to program a universal remote so that watching a movie it not like launching the shuttle.

I am using the URC R50 and though there are certainly better ones out there I couldnt be happier with it for the $60 I spent on it.

The engadget article makes me think that this is a setting I need to tweak on the PS3. Fingers crossed. Thanks.

Hello:
Subwoofer and 5.1 issues have been solved! The only thing left to do is to program my Logitech Harmony 670 remote. mreed, how do you control your PS3? Is there a universal remote that is able to control a PS3?

This gadget works with the Harmony remotes very well for the PS3.

Glad your issues are solved.

Great. Thanks.

Coal, what was the solution?

Not entirely sure to be honest. I re-set a few settings on my PS3 and that seemed to correct the 5.1 stuff. For the sub, I also tweaked a few settings and it started to work. Once it started working properly I did not really question it too much. Ha!

The only issue to fix now is the remote-fest I have going on!

Coal, I am late to this thread, but wanted to point out that the Engadget article is a bit outdated. When it states that the PS3 cannot send out bitstream to the receiver, that is only true of the older 'fat' PS3 units. The newer 'slim' version PS3's can bitstream the DTS-MA and DD-HD formats. So if you have a newer slim PS3 you can set it to bitstream and get the DTS-MA and DD-HD lights on your receiver. You get the same sound either way, it's just a matter of 'seeing' the format on your receiver.

Medic8r - it was still a helpful post!

Hope that helped and did not cause more confusion!

Cheers,

Good point. I had wondered if there would be changes in a 3 year old article. That's like a lifetime in the electronics life cycle ...