See It Here

Yeah Richard, I read that review and studied the tests. Thanks for linking it. Even more interesting than most of the subjective listening impressions(which I tend to take with somewhere between a grain and a ton of salt), were the fine results shown in the NRC lab tests.

$400 outriggers.

I could buy 8 M80s for the price of 2 of these. All of which are too expensive for my blood.

After being dormant for a while, the Model T thread at 'AH' has been resurrected siting this review with even the big guy over there weighing in again - mostly commenting on the NRC's measuring/testing methods.

If interested, for those who hadn't followed it before, start from the beginning. The latest starts on page 13, post #126.

I'm staying out of it for now...

TAM

Good choice to stay out I say. Those guys just love drama and controversy and the Great Overlord that is Gene will correct everyone's and anyone's thinking so that no one will have any real thoughts of their own. LOL

I would love to hear them next to an Axiom speaker, or any other speaker for that matter.

I too would like to see these head to head with Axiom, especially the LFR 1100's. However, I'm thinking James T. won't go near that.

It is most likely that they would be 'similarly good' within their price point...

TAM

I read through that thread lastnight....If there is one thing I hate about forums it is that everyone seems to be a self proclaimed expert and the amount of pure BS that ensues is simply astonishing.

Even more astonishing when these so-called "experts" proclaim their expertise never having even heard it, read only one review and and looked at a picture. Once again, it tells you something about the credibility(or lack) of the forum. A total waste of time.

agreed. Though guaranteed now there are some of those very same "experts" browsing THIS thread I bet.

I'm going to keep an eye on this topic and the one on avs...

...*sits back with some popcorn and waits for drama to unfold*

I read in UHF that these were a partnership design, but an Axiom build.

Is that correct?

Correct.

I would suppose that Ian cannot legally or ethically comment on them.

I'm sure the Axiom group will remain as neutral as their speakers.

HOLY MOTHER OF PEARL
BBIBH and Haoleb commenting in the same thread.
Talk about old school

Where in lords name have you two lads been lately?
Disappeared to Hawaii to Maine...or just disappeared?

It's really heated up over there on page 15+. A redundant argument is raging between a poster who owns & admires (above several other higher end stuff that he's had in the past) the Model Ts & an 'expert' that hasn't heard nor seen them but slags them anyway. It is typical of that whole thread from the start.

It's likely that there would be little or no argument had the Brystons been designed & built by another manufacturer. Some just can't stomach the fact that these units obviously can perform to a really high standard as is now being attested to & documented in several fine reviews by owners & pros alike.

Kudos to both companies for the outstanding expertise & extraordinary effort expended in bringing this fine project to fruition into this fickle & volatile segment of the marketplace.

Makes me proud to be a Canuck...

TAM

Hey Chess, just been busy, and not all that available for the board. I had a problem logging on, and just went about my business elsewhere.

Ex, yes, it is always interesting to watch the rants of opinionated people who profess to others that THEY know it all and can prove it, and THERE agendas are the ones that matter....

An open mind can lead to great experiences!

Absolute Audio in Calgary is a Bryston dealer. I've been meaning to get there and now I have another reason to check them out. It will be interesting to see the Model T's heard next to the likes of Monitor Audio, Opera, Audio Physics, Proac etc. I heard they have some anthony gallo's there too.

It's probably the closest I'll ever get to hear what Axioms would sound like directly compared to others. Should get a vague idea considering the tweeters are the same and the design philosophies are probably identical. Should be a fun trip.

FWIW, I urge others to get out there and listen to stuff. Finding a good dealer allowed me to see what I like, learn proper setup etc. Far more valuable than any forum opinion or magazine review imo.

Actually not much different, only you are assured the info and opinions are from someone that has actually HAD experience with the product, but anything they say other than published facts is still their own opinion, no different than on the forums.

I meant seeing and hearing the gear in person at a dealer is far more valuable of course. and free.

They've been hanging out in nirvana with sushi.

I should meet you one day at Absolute Audio and we could do some listening.

Some distressing news over at the AH Model T thread.

Gene astutely smelled a rat with 'Stedanko's' glowing Model T reviews & posts. Seems that this guy was also 'Zissou' at AVS who pulled his thread after a day that we noted here. Kudos to Gene for banning this alleged fraudster. He certainly had me sucked in.

Why does this stuff keep happening? Bryston & Axiom really did not need this...

TAM

Tam , how does this make him a fraudster???

That should be fun.

I called them up and they have them on the floor for demo. Next Saturday tentatively? Whatever works. Send a pm.

Demo discs anyone to feed to the Brystons?

'Alleged' that is. It seems that he was also making posts elsewhere under different monikers that were deemed to be less than forthright; however, we'll probably never know now unless he surfaces again.

I'd be most happy to find out that he was completely honourable. I admired & supported his posts there & I'd be the first to sincerely apologize to him if he is indeed legitimate.

At the moment it is an unfortunate enigma...

TAM

Reading Stedanko's reply to the accusation on the AH forum, he said he had over 1500 posts at AVS as Zissou. Can you confirm? Depending on his posting, that could be a pretty big sign he's the normal enthusiast he claims to be.

Hey guys,

Maybe I can clear a few things up here. Yes I do have 1500 posts at AVSFORUMS although I stopped being a regular participant there in May 2009. My post count can be verified here:

http://www.avsforum.com/u/7554232/zissou

It's a true shame that enthusiasm for a product can lead to accusations of being a fraudster.
If you check my Best Sounding Pre/Pro thread at AVS it should be QUITE clear that I have no connection OR allegiance to any high end company.



This couldn't be further from the truth and I am still not sure why a glowing review of a product I truly believe in would lead anyone to believe I was a "fraudster" but it's Gene's forum and he can do what he wants I harbour no resentment.
Anyways that's the whole "sordid" story guys. I love the Model T and truly do think it's a revelatory product but I am far too busy these days to engage in online negativity which does no good for anyone.

Happy listening to all.

Zissou (Definitely NOT a fraudster)

Read through that entire thread, it was painful. AH is a big joke anymore. I wouldn't listen to most that post there including Gene. The place is down right pathetic.

Zissou: Welcome back to the world. I see that AH has reinstated your posting privileges after Bryston verified your status. I applaud them for that.

I profusely apologize for doubting your legitimacy as I was lead to jump to conclusions as well - I must be more vigilant. Last night I wondered about where AH was going with this as I suddenly remembered that your Model T photo looked real to me. That alone should have triggered some questions in their minds before the ban.

Anyway, I enjoyed & supported your posts over there - I even had one of my posts removed - but you were sure ganged-up upon & needlessly beat up, all because of who built the speakers.

Welcome aboard...

TAM

Thanks for the kind words.

Whew, thanks. I thought that you would be mad at me, ha!!

TAM

I was really wondering what gene's grounds for banning were as I read along. Are pictures not proof enough anymore and seriously no one has the right to sensor my opinion or anyone else's. Stedanko repeated over and over, you don't know shit if you haven't heard them yourself and they just don't listen over there. Gene is a huge narcissist, calling himself an overlord, I mean holy shit what a ego that guy has. AcudeftecGuy has 5or 6 sets of speakers set up in front of his screen, who does that?? I hardly think that makes someone objective. I guess all those guys there that have never heard the T's know more than the reviewers and customers who have heard them. Go to AudioCirle all kinds of feedback from customers saying exactly what Stedanko/Zissou has said himself. The only reason I went to AH was because it was mentioned here and I wanted to witness the slaughter that was surely coming, firt hand. I think Zissou's review would be better posted at AudioCircle and would be received with the validity it deserves. BTW AVS is full of AssHats as well.

Peace Out

That didn't take long

It is unfortunate that people will judge a product without actually hearing the product. People have their own criteria for judging products, and I get that. But to simply dismiss because of price, reputation, brand, etc. IMHO is simply a mistake.

That happens here as well, but we are more civilized for the most part. There have been well documented "discussions" and some have left the board over these. I will admit that while I have been around for a long time on this board, I rarely post because my beliefs are not always in line with the comments in a thread....and I am ok with that.

Anyway, human nature is always interesting! :-)

Mike, I vehemently disagree with you on this!

I am ok with that Mark!

Hey Zissou,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in your thread at AH you claimed to have owned these in the past:

Wilson Audio Sophia 1 ~ $11K
Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 7 ~ $22K
Revel Salon ~ $14K
Revel Salon2 ~ $22K

You also alluded to owning others like the Linkwitz Orion, KEF 207/2-- or at least spending time with them. Impressive.

The Revel Salon2 speakers are regarded as some of the best speakers in the world by many...... especially for accuracy and neutrality-- something Axiom has strived for with their products.

Now not to ruffle too many feathers, this is an axiom forum after all. It doesn't seem like a reasonable person would ever consider going "backwards" after such an astounding and prestigious speaker history. These are speakers people dream of owning for years, build entire systems, and save, and suffer to get them..... eventually.

Here are my questions for you; in your opinion, do the Bryston Model T's outperform the "best speaker in the world" or is it based on value for dollar you make the "revelation" statement?

Why the heck would you ascend from Wilson Sophias up the food chain to Revels, then end up at a puzzling end??

What's the real story here..... is it something fishy or reckless going on.

Not sure if you are directing this at me?

It would seem puzzling that the person made the choices that were claimed. Some simply like to get reactions I suppose.

Yes I have owned those as well as the Magnepan MG20.1. Firstly there is no "best speaker in the world" by their very design they are imperfect devices and every design is a series of trade offs and strengths that culminate in the final product.
You are quoting new pricing and I have not bought new in many years, like cars let the other guy pay the depreciation.
Seems like everyone always comes back to the Revel Salon2 it has become the standard bearer if you will but in my opinion it's not even the best sounding speaker Revel makes I preferred the original Salon and the F52. The Salon2 measures impeccably and I am betting it achieves the goals Voecks et al set out for it but it is a rather cold and sterile transducer one I always respected but could not fall in love with. Indeed we spent more time tweaking the system than actually listening to music and when we did listen there was an emotional detachment from the music.
The Brystons have a set of strengths that I have not heard in any other full range, multispeaker system. Pretty safe in saying that had they not teamed up with Axiom and done this on their own the MSRP would have been many times higher just to recoup the cost of R and D involved.
I can assure you our system does not go "backwards" if the Model Ts were not such a unbique productt I would not be wasting my time here maybe if Bryston had priced these closer to 20K there would be the incredulity that seems to exist.

Don't for a moment think that I ever forget or take for granted how fortunate we are to be in a position to have owned all these speakers. Everyone has priorities for how they spend their income and this pursuit gives us the most pleasure.



As I said in the beginning I certainly have not heard the best speaker in the world and truly doubt I ever will, that is if there is one it could change tomorrow.

The Brystons more than competes with anything I have owned, if they didn't they would have been sold off and I would have moved on. Their coherence and soundstaging abilities differentiate them from the from the other speakers I have owned whilst retaining their strengths.
This makes them a revelation and their price point makes this level of performance more accessible to more people. This in and of itself makes these a game changer.

Sorry BBIBH, I just always click reply as I get through the last post.

Thanks Zissou for your response. I'm looking forward to hearing these even more now. Congrats on your Brystons.

No worries Hellcommute, just making sure!

I don't venture many other audio forums anymore.
Perhaps you can post your review in this thread.

I'm certainly interested in hearing some opinions on that Model T.

The only way this statement could ruffle feathers is if you are in the camp of " $ does not = quality".

Which it doesn't.
Just like wine.
Too bad though.
Would make selection alot easier knowing that linear relationship existed.

Within the Axiom line, my experience, so far, is $ = quality. Perhaps within each individual line of speakers of the same company, $ = quality. Just not so across companies, $ wise.

If I had hemorrhoids they’d be itching by now with this stupidly by those posters at AVS & AH...well at least “Hugh” is long gone (back in ’09 for those that don’t know)!!!LMAO!!!

It is really easy if you do not like Axiom's or any other speakers then do not buy them, still don't get this hatred for them????

exactly, I mean I hate Volvo's but I don't go over to their forums and hate on them and suggest they get a Vega or something. No sure what it is these few select guys love to hate about axioms. To each their own I say .

If all goes as planned I'll be auditioning them once back from vacation alongside others. The Bryston Model Ts are available for Demo in Calgary at Absolute Audio for anyone else interested.

I'll try to listen for similarities/differences to other speakers so I can give my impressions that will mean something comparison wise, rather than "magically holographic soundstage" etc.

I plan to bring a notepad to keep my thoughts straight for the report back. What a nerd, eh?!

What about size = quality, because that is one reason why cost goes up in a line as well. Hence, does the world's largest speaker automatically sound better than anything smaller?

If you price out the M50s which are more expensive than the M22s, i think the M22s have a better sound quality. You could qualify that sound by a more linear frequency response if so inclined.
I certainly don't think you can literally line up every Axiom speaker from lowest price to highest and then qualify how each speaker is somehow better with every price jump.

I've never heard the M50's, so you could be right at that point. But don't see why anyone would want the M50's if the M22's sound better.

Was talking about the same speaker lines within the same company, so if it's the worlds biggest box, you'd have to compare it to the same companie's smaller and probably cheaper box. So the bigger and more pricier one would probably sound better.