Posted by: terzaghi

Upgrade? - 01/03/15 06:09 PM

So I'm thinking about upgrading to 6.1 or 7.1 from my V2 5.1 set up with two QS 8's, m80s, vp180, ep500. I'm thinking 6.1 would be easier for my room as I could play another speaker behind the couch pretty easy at a reasonable height. If I go 7.1 I would need to mount one from the drop down ceiling in the kitchen and the speakers would be a little higher than I like. Perhaps that's not a big deal because my side surrounds are higher than I would like due to a window in the way, but they sound fine. The couch is about 4 feet from the wall.

So advice would be appreciated on 6.1 versus 7.1, qs4, versus qs8, versus something else, 4 feet too close from couch for fear surrounds, etc.

I'm also toying with the idea of a second sub, but would like to try svs, hsu, etc. I'm the $800 range but would need to pair with ep500 well. I also kicked around the idea of a 3 channel amp for my fronts, but axiom amps are a little more than I want to spend. So it's either two more surrounds, an amp, a second sub, or maybe a single rear surround and sub.

Pictures of setup so you can visualize surround location. Thanks in advance.

Posted by: CV

Re: Upgrade? - 01/03/15 06:23 PM

I suppose 6.1 really would be the easiest if you wanted to expand the surrounds, though, personally, I'd probably stick with 5.1 in that space and put the money toward the second sub and/or amp that you're considering. If you did do a rear surround or surrounds, however, you'd have a little more space between your couch and the speakers than I currently have. I only have around 2 feet. While not ideal, it does work.

Also, the pictures of the family here and on Facebook are always good to see.
Posted by: AAAA

Re: Upgrade? - 01/03/15 06:38 PM

I would second adding a second sub over 7.1 easily. Cant comment on amps unless your current AVR is lacking output.

Adding a second sub was a big sonic upgrade, both for music and movies in my setup.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Upgrade? - 01/03/15 06:53 PM

Thanks! Yeah, the little guy keeps me ony toes. I was thinking just adding a third qs8 would be easiest and provide some improvement at a reasonable cost. I can easily access the attic to run cable so that's no problem. If I go 7.1 I could use some kind of bracket to bring the speaker down a couple feet from the drop ceiling assuming the wife wouldn't get too mad about a speaker floating in the air and the other fixed to the wall. I moved my sub up from the back corner to the side of my couch and would like to have one on the opposite side of the couch ( near fireplace/window which would put them In line with listening position on each side of room. However, that is an exterior wall and would not be able to fish sub cable through it. It could be done, but Most likely, my second sub would go near the front of the room.

Anyone have thoughts on hsu vs svs, or for amps are emotiva still sub par when it comes to powering m80s?

Axiom amps or subs aren't out of the question but have to look at budget more closely.
Posted by: AAAA

Re: Upgrade? - 01/03/15 07:06 PM

If you are open to moving speakers/subs around we might find you some extra horsepower for $0. smile

More pics of the room or a drawing with dimensions would be a good start if you are able. Sorry if you have them up somewhere already.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Upgrade? - 01/03/15 07:06 PM

Double post
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Upgrade? - 01/03/15 07:14 PM

Ok for single rear surround 4 feet from couch is QS still the way to go?

The more I think about it the more I want to add one surround and a sub. An amp would be nice but probably a future item. My room is pretty big with tall ceilings, etc. so have always felt I could use some more power over my 3808. Since I don't often get the chance to play thing very loud tho I get by fine at moderate loud volumes.

Too many subs to choose from...
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Upgrade? - 01/03/15 07:37 PM

No room sketches but my room is about 17 x 21 with 12 foot ceilings. Couch is along the long dimension. Sitting position is About 10 to 11 feet from front center, fronts are 10 feet apart. I've tried my sub between the TV and front right, back right cornerx and currently it is pretty much even with couch on right wall. I had it in Back right corner the longest time, but recently noticed it is extra boomy in the bedroom from the location and a little dead from couch. Not horrible, but enPugh difference that my wife notices bass from bedroom more than I do on couch. Moving the sun forward 4 feet even with the couch seems to solve this but I feel like a second sub would smooth things out a bit.

Is it imperative that the subs be identical? I assume that is best but not required as long as they have similar capability.

The more I think about it I could probably figure a way to put the second sub on opposite exterior wall if that proved to be the best location sound wise. I'd end up having to route through the exterior brick wall or cut drywall and re-texture but I could make it happen.
Posted by: AAAA

Re: Upgrade? - 01/03/15 08:44 PM

It is not imperative the subs are identical. It does make it easier to set levels between them when the dials on each are "weighted" the same. Ie. 1 o'clock on each subs gain equalls the same output when they are matching.

Your room is definitely a tough one. Times ten. I'm guessing you can play your system very loud but the result never seems very dynamic. Is this the case? The problem is all of the openings and kitchen/dining area are sharing the acoustic energy intended for your viewing area. You are thinking duh. laugh. The sub is currently energizing your foyer with equal energy.

The cure is also the killer in your case. Another sub will give you a more dynamic experience without question. The downside is 2 subs in your main living space will energize the structure with ease on loud passages. All the sound energy must decay somewhere. Somewhere is everywhere in your case. This will result in modal peaks in locations outside your theater space. It can't be avoided. frown

Pound for pound, a sub is the greatest contributor to the dynamic experience in a home theater setup. I would argue even more for larger rooms. All higher frequencies are bolstered by a solid low frequency foundation.

Once you go 2 subs you wont go back........
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: Upgrade? - 01/03/15 10:19 PM

I recently went to 7.1 with rear surrounds. Originally was running 7.1 with my Denon using DSX front wides with my M2's. I am really enjoying my rear surrounds using PLIIx . I hung them from the ceiling with some AM25 pinpoint metal mounts I got off Amazon. Since the M2's are quite heavy I had to add another set screw to the mounts so they did not droop. I have the M2's tilted and angled toward the couch. I am considering in the future of adding M2's in place of my QS4's since I have found that I prefer the direct radiating surround speakers like I have set up in my bedroom 5.1. More subs are always good, so I would say go 7.2 if its in the budget . I will never go for ATMOS so this is the next best thing.

Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Upgrade? - 01/03/15 10:44 PM

M80s sound better in this large room than they did in my smaller room in our old house. However, the Ep500 does seems to have less impact now in the larger space.
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: Upgrade? - 01/03/15 11:17 PM

If you were to ask me , you cant have enough bass, my neighbors not so much. You have a lot of open space , get your sub a new friend to play with.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Upgrade? - 01/04/15 12:45 AM

I say go for it with both. More sub is not a bad thing given how open your space is. You may need to dial it back at times, but you want the full effect of lfe on movies.

You could even try a QS4 for your rear surround if you don't want to spend too much.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Upgrade? - 01/04/15 06:01 PM

The ep500 has changed significantly since V2 it appears. Anyone compared the two or summarized the changes/ improvements?
Posted by: AAAA

Re: Upgrade? - 01/04/15 06:27 PM

It is now sealed for starters.

For your Goliath space, you want a ported with the most output you can afford. Sealed units are great (beyond great actually) but they do not possess the dynamic output required for the oodles of cubic ft you need to pressurize. Those magic ports.....

I wish I could recommend sealed (I own 2) but I think it may come up short for you.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Upgrade? - 01/04/15 07:08 PM

David, re 3 channel amp, personally I believe a 2 channel on your fronts would give you lots of added headroom. Your AVR should easily handle the centre and surrounds without having to power the mains which require the most juice. Have a look at a Crown XLS or similar for the best bang-per-buck.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Upgrade? - 01/04/15 07:29 PM

Thought about 2 channel previously when I had a vp150, but since the vp180 is basically the same speaker as an m80 I assjme id want an amp to power all three
Posted by: Newf

Re: Upgrade? - 01/06/15 08:00 PM

Definitely add a 2nd sub. Of course, assuming you feel you aren't getting enough bass. Some rooms do really well with one sub, maybe you got lucky. But adding a second sub to our room, which is quite a bit smaller than yours was a major upgrade. I'd also find a way to get those surrounds closer to ear level. I have my qs8's up close to ceiling as well, and they suck. Yup, after years or ignoring the issue, I finally admit it. It's not the speakers, but position. So I'm moving mine to ear level but my room is challenging as well. Since I added M3 ceilings for Atmos, it's just painfully obvious that ceiling mounted QS8's are the wrong way to go.

Besides, getting them lower will make them louder, and easier on your amp too.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Upgrade? - 01/15/15 01:29 PM

I added a 3rd QS8 for a 6.1 and I can rarely even tell it's there. You don't tend to notice noises coming from behind you.
Posted by: butcherbme

Re: Upgrade? - 01/27/15 05:23 AM

That's a large area open to many other rooms, much like mine. I tried an EP500 and wasn't content. I would have need two. I didn't want two so I got a JL Audio f113. That does the job. I see that Axiom has larger subs now so there are options with Axiom. Two subs would work best if you don't mind giving up floor space.