I am again sitting at a cross roads. I currently have a 2011 model year Pioneer VSX-1126k. It is a great home theater unit and even comes THX certified. Yet I think this unit has some sound limitations that I don't know if they are holding me back.

One thing that I have not seen in the settings menu is any area to control how the unit interacts with a sub woofer. You can tell it yes that you have a sub, but there is no settings for the cross over points. Likewise, you don't have any control over the crossover points for the speakers either. You can say they are large or small. What that means for the processing inside the unit is rather vague in they define large full range.

In my case, I have the top end LFR1100 speakers, so they definitely are not small. I am quite happy to run them full range, but as I have a pair of EP500s as well, I'd like the sub to supplement the sound that the fronts produce. I don't know and dont think this receiver is capable of doing this.

I know from my stint with a Marantz AV7005 pre that you could through its setup define a crossover for both the front channels to drive below a certain point (ie 45hz falloff) to go to the SUB, plus run the sub in parallel with a higher crossover point (ie 80hz falloff). So where the speakers are capable of producing sound but do so at a -db of SPL you can get the sub to fill in.

I don't know if this is something that is important as I don't know if I have ever gotten the unit setup correctly with the speakers right and sound treatment correct. I know that sound I remember with the speakers upstairs in my front room that was larger sounded better to me I think, but it's not a side by side A/B test.

I currently don't have the speakers for ATMOS and don't know if I will want speakers in the ceiling. I don't know if I really need anything beyond 5.1 right now, but would consider going to 7.1 (well effectively it's .2 as i currently own two sub woofers).

Why go with one receiver over any other. Does the MRX1120 have something far more over the MRX720? Am I just lost?

I have like 2 minutes is all, so just going to fire off some comments...

The 720 is a 7.x receiver, where the 1120 is a 11.x receiver.

720 can do 7.x or 5.x.2 Atmos (can go to 7.x.4 with 4 more channels of amplification)
1120 can do 11.x or 7.x.4 Atmos (all with internal amps)

Anthem receivers have ARC (Anthem Room Correction) and it is supposed to be really, really good.

The 1120 has a Toroidal power supply that is supposed to improve dynamic range (can hit louds quick, and drop power super fast for changes in output levels).

Anyway, that is what I could come up with in 2 minutes.

Hey Matt, former pio user here.

Page 69.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/StaticFiles/POCEN/Files/VSX-1126-1326%20Manual.pdf

You can set your crossover setting by using the manual speaker setup function. The remote used to have a direct access button to that menu. Not sure now. To have the subs and mains play together you used to set the mains to "PLUS" (LARGE\SMALL\PLUS used to be options) not sure if your model has now changed.

IIRC You have to set your main speakers to small, then sub to yes, then it will let you choose the crossover.

Hope this helps.

I had a pioneer Elite can't remember what model though but paid $2100 for it. Then I had the MRX500 $1200 walked all over it.
Love ARC.

The 720 does 11.2 but you need external amplification for the other 4 channels, where as the 1120 has all amplification.

Agreed...

There is the talk about how the 1120 has a terroidal power supply, but as I have a large external amp for the main speakers, does not having this extra larger power supply really make sense?

Also I have 2 older Amp/OneA (about 100w) that I could hook up to the remaining 4 channels that the 720 can support. Just thinking that as I already have a number of external amps, does it make sense to pay the extra for the 1120?

If you have amps already, then I would say to go with the 720.

finally got an email from Anthem.

The MRX 1120 has 4 extra powered channels and the toroidal power supply. The toroidal power supply offers less radiated noise when compared to a standard laminated core power supply – this would translate into less noise when you are using the internal amps or external amps.

The power in the units are essentially the same with the difference being in the power supply style.

DTS:X will be a firmware upgrade (we are expecting it this summer). This will be done the same as all firmware updates through the front panel USB.

Our MRX’s will not be upgradeable.


So, that basically leaves the question on how much more nosy is the non toroidal power supply and will that translate into audible sound degradation?

If they're selling a receiver with audible sound degradation, they shouldn't be in business. Which makes that line a buncha hooey.

A torroidal transformer has less magnetic leakage than ei type transformers. There are however very efficient ei core transformers like the H type, with very low leakage. Torroidals are smaller for a comparable VA rating. They are more expensive to manufacture however.

They are common for low amperage motor control applications. We see them all the time in commercial lighting and blind controls/drivers.

If a torroidal power supply was super critical in the accuracy of a reproduced signal, they would be used exclusively in high end testing equipment like oscilloscopes. This is not the case. They are very effective when space savings and comparable VA rating are important. You can fit more transformed power into a smaller/shorter enclosure. This important in the it sector, where rack mounting is the norm. Saving RU is saving space and money.

I own torroid amps, ei amps and my HT uses both. There are other factors orders of magnitude more important than transformer type in the sound reproduction outcome. If you are able to see the inside of the 1120 vs 720 you may see they needed to save space for more heatsinking and output transistor mount area for the extra 4 channels of amplification. Enter the torroid.

Edit: Anthem AVRs use a cooling tunnel near the front of the enclosure for their output section it looks like. The 1120 likely has 2 smaller onboard transformers in the black cylinder as opposed to a slightly larger single ei type in their lower tier models.

The 1120 is an attractive option for a single box solution for sure. Atta go Nick!

I gOT home and there was the box. Ready to open. I grabbed a pair of scissors to cut the tape, and my wife wasn't too pleased.. I guess I should have at least said hello after being gone all week. Oops. I got the tape cut and then I was asked to start laundry (mainly mine), and then I decided to register the device, which I did and the. Lwft. I haven't even seen the u it itself yet...

If you already have external amp thats four channels yeh, say yourself some money.
If your like me and put the SPL meter away when watching movies at 80db or listening to music at 90db. Your not going to notice the
" Noise" made between the transformers.
Likewise, if your lucky enough to have alot of disposable income, then grab the 1120 if that "Noise" is going to effect your listening pleasure.

Yeah, I think that there is something probably measurable noise wise, but not audible to human ears. I wouldn't out any stock in it. Bmnow I did hear that the toroidal has a "faster response" to volume changes that does give noticeably more "punch" when a soundtrack calls for it, but again, that isn't why I got it. As for lots of disposable income, not here... far from it actually. I've been working side Photoshop jobs for AVS people and generally get anywhere from $50-$100 per job (some are less, and some I do for free) but I probably bring in around $150 on average a week doing that, and that money was specifically going towards 7.2.4 Atmos equipment and I have been working at it for a long time. I also had to tap into this money for a new furnace, but was glad to have it.

Of course, the day before the 1120 showed up at our door, the transmission went out on the family van and it isn't worth fixing, so now we have to start shopping for vehicles. So again, "disposable income" doesn't just come to some of us. I have put a lot of time and effort into getting it, and now have something that will hopefully help pay for a newer vehicle...

I have about 8 channels of external ampage. The LFR's use 4 and I have the pair of Amp/OneA's that for the time being can run my Energy Take micro bookshelf speakers that I have and can mount for height speakers to get 11.2 (or is that 7.2.4)? As for volume.. I have not the largest room and I don't particularly play for the rest of the house or neighbours to hear. If I get up to 90db then I am playing it loud. But sometimes it does get up there.



This goes back to my original question that nobody had really answered, but rather skirted around it.

What channels will take advantage of this "faster response" or larger dynamics or faster recovery time?

If I have a ADA1000 amp that I am going to gather from reviews of Craigsub is no slouch driving the LFR speakers, then from stereo listening there is ZERO advantage from the 1120.

That just leaves the Center channel and side / back surround speakers left to power. Do these channels get hit for large dynamic sounds? I could understand if someone said the Center Channel would. But then I'd ask If you eliminated the power requirements to drive a Left and Right front speaker, would a less effeciant/responsive power supply be more than adiquate as you are pulling 1/3rd of the current demand because you are not using the L&R front amp at all ?

I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER SO I AM ASKING. does my logic sound reasonable?

I have no scientific proof that the CC handles the bulk of movie soundtracks now; however, it seems that what I have gathered in numerous other threads in other sites, that this is the case.

Many say that the CC is now the most important channel & handles most of the info & dynamics of the movie. I'd say that the CC should be allowed lots of power & have a powerful speaker that can handle it...

TAM

That " Disposable Income" didn't quite come out the way I meant. Alot of people with non-disposable income get good stuff, working and saving for it. I've been building on my system be a few years but will get done.
It sure wasn't in reference to you getting a 1120 or your income.


One would think or atleast I do that sometimes reviewers, etc take things to the minute extreme.

I am a probably above average home theatre enthusiast, meaning around here most people think a $1000 home theatre in a box is a awesome thing and that me spending $2000 on just F/R speakers is crazy and they seriously don't hear the difference.

I am for me darn sure with my M80 and VP180 connected to a MRX720 and my Anthem MCA50 running just F/C/R I am not in any way going to notice any recovery or dynamic difference with a MRX703 connected to three MCA mono blocks or ADA1500's.

Yes, I think they changed the type or transformer, basically because the 1120 is running for more internal amps a little more stain on the system. Also, with more channels etc probably gives a bit more " Noise" maybe at 11 channel it is audible.

I think if one is concerned why not get the AVM60 and pick up a MCA325 or 3ch ADA1250. Later on pick up a ADA100 4 ch to run the rear/surrounds and use the amp you have for Atmos speakers as it starts to come on stream and movies become more choices.

Isn't the point of separates exactly the point you are questioning. The Pre/Pro has it's own transformer. The three amps have there own and are broken down. I am darn near 100% sure a ADA150 or MCA325 can handle and run L/C/R in most any normal/above normal situations that, I know I am not going to notice. Maybe, if your listening at 100dbl in a room the size of a hall you will notice. Pretty sure a 4 ch ADA1000 or 1250 will sufficiently handle the rear/surrounds.
As for the Sides/Surrounds I believe for the most part these are usually crossed over at what 100hz? I cannot see that taxing the system much.

My point is there's what 5 movies in ATMOS, DTS:X isn't even out yet. It's probably going to be a year or two before it becomes mainstream and more selection. I cannot see On-Demand on Movie network broadcasting anytime soon, well hell Bell ExpressVU doesn't even do 7.1. This gives you a couple years to build a great system in separates and not really worry about a receiver's capabilities on how it runs 7/9 or 11 channels.

Currently 32 blu-rays available with Atmos some better than others:
Atmos Blu-Ray Titles

DTS:X is out for a few receiver brands, but movie selection there is dismal with 4 current titles:
DTS:X Blu-Ray Titles

With so few choices for DTS:X, and still even a relatively small number of Atmos titles compared to movies people could possibly have in their collection, what a lot of people are enjoying are the upmixers for both Atmos and DTS:X. The reviews there (particularly with the DTS:X one) is that they can really create an amazing soundfield from non-Atmos and non-DTS:X material. Heck, I was just watching the latest "Home Theater Geeks" video and they talk about how the one guy, Mark, likes to even upmix stereo audio (eek, sacrilege for the audiophiles out there) as he says that it really does an amazing job of putting you IN the audio field, and it isn't just basic "all speaker stereo" type of settings, but actually doing some significant processing to great something realistic and cool.

But what am I doing here? I have a MRX-1120 sitting in its box downstairs. I have about 5 things that I need to do today that I told myself I would HAVE to get done before getting it out and starting to set it up. So I need to get my butt in gear and start checking things off the list.

Congrats on the 1120, now hurry up and get those chores done.
Even on a non atmos system the sound effects on the Atmos blue rays is pretty darn enveloping even compared to 7.1. on the same discs. I've got about 4 of them now Expendables 3 was the biggest difference I've noticed.

Yeah, my new Galaxy S7 Edge phone came today too, and I spent a lot of the evening multi-tasking to get it set up as I could click through settings while doing other things, vs. dedicating quite some time exclusively working on the receiver installation.

Then we ended up going to one of my wife's friend's house for a couple of hours...

On a good note, I will have a chunk of Saturday to get it installed, ARC set and applied, and some demos, even with a 7.1 setup. I agree that even without height speakers that Atmos encoded discs sound better than non-Atmos discs. I had an Onkyo 646 for about 3 days in December, and experienced the same thing.

Well, I have my prices now and there is a good savings for me going with the MRX720 over the MRX1120.

What was suggested in one of the other forums however was looking at going with the AVR60 that comes with none of the amps (that costs about mid way between the two models above). Some suggest that a pre-amp will supposedly sound better than going with a receiver. How true is that? or is it just snobbery myth

With my current setup I effectively have enough external amps to run a 5.1 setup (that I currently have installed). Going with the money doesn't grow on trees and it would take some time to afford a reasonable 5 channel amp to bring the system up to the full atmos 11.2 (7.2.4)

Now I have seen on CAM that people are selling Anthem D2 for around $2000 and there are those who purchased the AVR50 who are rather ticked that the newer and more featured model is now listed for 1/3rd the price they paid for their unit. I guess the pre-amp is making a comeback into reasonable price range again. With the likes of Marantz AV8802 costing well over $4k, getting an Anthem pre-amp for a good thousand less than that would be a bonus.

If you had the choice between going component vs integrated receiver, what would you choose?

I thought I'd put my 2 cents in as I have LFR1100v4's as well. I have had them hooked up to a mid-level Yamaha receiver for pre/pro purposes only and now a Marantz AV7701 pre/pro. The difference is very audible with the Marantz giving much more detail and range. I'm sure with a better receiver such as a NAD or Arcam the difference would not be as radical. I've had my speakers hooked up to two different amps with my big bad class A/B a clear winner over my class H. The MSRP of the A/B is more then double the class H though. Of course receiver power isn't going to work. Separate components all the way with LFR's!

[quote=oakvillematt]If you had the choice between going component vs integrated receiver, what would you choose? [/quote

If I had the choice, and money wasn't a factor, then I could go with component for sure. Nice clean power that is independent of the processor and should reduce the cost of future upgrades.

Unfortunately, it is usually a larger investment to buy separate amps and a pre/pro. Sure, you can find "value" amps, but to get something worth being separate amps, the initial cost is a chunk more.

I have some thoughts, questions about using more than one separate amplifier for multichannel as it concerns previous comments on this thread. I believe the amplfication channel to a VP180HP (matching center speaker for LFR1100) should be identicle to the LFR's. I have a seven channel amp hooked up in a 5.1 system with all channels in use. The amp has separate transformers for right and left but the center draws from both and I believe this is so because of the high demand on the center channel. (Could also have something to do with an odd number of channels). I've got the 3 front speaker crossovers set the same at 40Hz and wall of sound with the right material is experienced. What about the volume gain spec of an amp? Should it match any other in the system? Input/output sensitivity? Im fortunate that I have 2 seven channel amps with the same gain (31.5db) I will use in a 7.1 system in my new room in my new house.

I wish money was no object for me too.

From what I can glean, the AVM-60 is supposed to have an upgraded DAC over the MRX models, and I am not sure, but something about it will allow for ARC to be applied to analog input sources too.

For me, I understand that the outlay over the longer term will be much higher. I don't want to or plan to replace the unit if I can get away with it. Buy once and enjoy forever. But with electronics, who knows how well or long it will last??

The kicker for me is what to do about amplification. I have some but effectively not enough of the right type. My LFR have their own 4 channel amp. I have 2 more 2 channel amps of lesser value.

The missing piece really is the Center Channel amp.

The amp that poweres my LFRs is the ADA1000. I would love to get an ADA1250 or ADA1500 to replace that amp for the LFRs. It would make total sense to upgrade the 4 channel ADA1000 to a 5 channel to run the surrounds and center. Sadly, I don't have the $3+K to afford the larger amp.

I currently dont have any speakers for a rear channel surround. I do have a pair of Energy C3 but no real stand for them and effectively I think I will need to get a wall mount speaker for the layout of the room.

What I need to figure out is what to do about the center channel if I go pre-amp. The two smaller amps that I have aren't really that great for a main speaker such as the center channel . would be great for surrounds or better yet height ATMOS speakers.

Do I buy a monoblock amp and then I am having 3 odd amps for each speaker.. don't know if it makes a difference. Would you think that adding the center channel to my current ADA1000 now might be the better choice. Then it's already done for if/when I get the better amp for the fronts

I am on the edge of pulling the trigger to get the new unit. I do have another question for those out there.

Right now Anthem has their version of the AxiomAir (the PW800) that you can get for free with the purchase of the AVM-60 that I was looking at. I have phoned around and got several prices for the unit, and different dealers were all over the map on the prices given. The cheapest was about $500 less than the next but they were not offering the FREE PW800.

I don't know if I'd really use the portable speaker. it's one of those that you don't really know until you get one. The list price on the speaker is about $900 or the same as the Axiom. If I was paying full price, I'd get the Axiom system hands down. But as I'd be getting it for almost 1/2 the price.

Yeah, I was told that the Paradigm free units (their AxiomAir or their amp that they are offering) were only available if paying MSRP on the Anthem receiver or pre/pro.

Honestly there is huge value in having a portable system. I use a bluetooth speaker all the time for BBQ and parties, especially outside parties.

Towards the all component route or 720 Vs the 1120, wouldn't the 11 channel in the 1120 be better for isolation? With less possibility of Hum from multiple power supplies.

I agree component all the way, but it could be costly especially if you get into multiple Amps. or the 7 or 8 channel versions.