I posted this on AVS...but since you guys know EVERYTHING. I figured I should post it here as well...
My HT is nearly complete. Over the past 6+ months I've upgraded all my components, speakers, amps, etc. The last two remaining upgrades are a TV and DVD player.
Here's what I have now:
Rotel RSP-1066
Rotel RB-1070 (130x2 amp)
Rotel RMB-1075 (120x5 amp)
Pioneer 656A - DVD/DVD-A player
Axiom M60ti - mains
Axiom VP150 - center
Axiom QS8 - surrounds
Axiom M2i - rears
Hsu VTF-2 - subwoofer
JVC 32" TV
The obvious weak link in my setup is the Pioneer 656A - and the TV, but that's another story.
What I'd like to do is get the best possible (<$1000) DVD player that will provide me with the best DVD picture quality, but also superb CD audio playback. DVD-A and SACD would be nice, but not at the cost of PQ or regular CD playback. Am I asking too much from one unit? If not, what do you suggest?
If so, what are some of the best DVD players for PQ and CD players for AQ. How much more is it going to cost to go the separate route?
As you can tell from my gear, I'm very big on "Bang-For-Your-Buck" performance. Both Rotel and Axiom make amazing products for reasonable prices. I'm a cheap SOB...I want the best, but at FAIR prices!
Here's what I've been considering...am I off track?
Rotel RDV-1060 (DVD/DVD-A) (it would certainly be nice to keep everything Rotel)
Denon DVD-2900 (Univeral)
Yamaha DVC-6480 (DVD/DVD-A) <---- I had never heard of this player, but from what I've read it's a hell of a unit for a terrific price.
One last thought...should I just keep the 656 and wait for HD-DVD, or is that still too far off?
Thanks for the help.
CD players are pretty mature. I find the stand alone gives the best sound. SACD may sound nice but music sounds real in 2 stereo mode not in surround. And did you see the prices for SACD and DVD-A media. DVD-A are in a lot of DVD players now
cdp - Cary Audio CD 308 - highly recommended as good or better and cheaper than the Musical Fidility triVista cdp. Try your best source..audiogon
dvd - techonology will change in 2-3 yrs..maybe to HD DVD...quality in PQ is very close between highend and lowend. Get anything in the recommend list.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=5
If you were going FP the best PQ is HTPC with DVD software where your source resolution is sync-ed with your FP.
Given the rapidly increasing number of
titles released already (I am obviously biased for classical music titles, though), I don't think that SACD is going to be an interim/transitory media format; it will be here to stay. The media price is another matter, but if I see an SACD title of my favorite artists/pieces with supposedly spectacular recording quality, I would certainly wish to get it sooner than later.
So, if it were me, I would definitely narrow my choice down to universal players. Personally, I am waiting to see how the prices of the upcoming FireWire/i.Link-savvy models shake down -- when an affordably priced model is out, I will seriously consider upgrading both my player and receiver.
Hey Craig given that Sushi favours SACD universal player, these players where the cheapest decent sound quality of the lot. Music quality is good. The only issue I have is in QA. Some units I have heard have come DOA but if the player runs fine for the 1st couple of weeks the player will last. Listened to one critically on Triangle speakers.
http://www.sacd.philips.com/p_compare.php
DVD963SA
Philips transports have been used on high end players.
I still think though my old Marantz 63 Special Edition sounds better.
Another cdp that has great reviews is njoe tjoeb 4000 cd player which is a modified Marantz player.
This is the difficult situation that most home theater lovers are going through at the moment.
If you want great Audio/Video, I would say the Rotel and Denon would most definitely deliver. Especially if you want High Res music, which I think is more than worth it because it is the ultimate way to really showcase your Axiom system. I have and love DVD Audio and wish I could get a SACD player, but here comes the rub...
For the ultimate in Picture quality on a HDTV, the way to go is a dvd player with DVI-HDCP or HDMI outputs. These players, instead of only outputting dvds in 480p resolution, output in either 480p, 720p, or 1080i resolution. So a player like the Samsung Hd391 ($300) would produce better picture quality than the Denon or Rotel on a screen bigger than 36".
So there are two answers here, either way they are expensive:
Answer 1: Buy a Denon 2900 ($800) for CD and High Res Music and Buy a Samsung HD391 ($300) for movie watching. ($1100)
Answer 2: Buy a Denon 5900 ($1200-$2000?) and have a dvd player that has the best picture on the market with DVI and has great sound for High Res music and even has a digital link so that high res music can be passed to a reciever digitally instead of six seperate analog cables.
Dark Horse:
Buy the Rotel and have a great looking group of products with great quality.
In reply to:
Dark Horse:
Buy the Rotel and have a great looking group of products with great quality.
Yeah, that's going to be very high on the ownership pride/satisfaction scale, which I always respect as an important factor.
Craig, why don't you wait till Rotel comes up with a universal player?
I'm considering "settling" for the Denon 2900. That will give me what most people consider a really good unit for all things audio. Then when HD-DVD finally arrives, I'll see what Rotel puts out for a DVD only player. Do you know anything about the Denon 2200? Where did they skimp to bring the price down to $629?
fyi...if you look hard enough and are willing to be on a wait list, Denon 2900's can be bought as B-Stock from authorized dealers, with full warrantees for under $700.
If you know you are going to upgrade fairly soon, I would just settle on the cheap Pioneer 563a.
That's what I have done, I just want to get about a year out of it. Then when I go hi-def, I will look for a universal that supports the newer connections to my big screen.
Then again, if your Rotel preamp does not do bass management on the 5.1 analog inputs, you are going to want a uni with good bass management.
-curtis
I would not worry too much about HDDVD. It will not come out for a very long time. At least 2 more years.
So I think the best bet is to get the 2900 now, and when you get a new TV, you will want to get a player with DVi or HDMI for video. But those run cheap because you will be using it completely for movies. Since the connection will be all digital, the build quality of the player is not as important.
There does not seem to be any difference between the 2200 and 2900. But I think, like you said, it is probably worth the extra money if you can get it from PCMall or CLubMAc for $549. Considering I can only find the 2200 for $495 at the cheapest, I think the 2900 is the best bet.
I'm still kicking this idea around in my head.
I think it's making more and more sense to have a separate CD(SACD/DVD-A) player that will give me the best audio quality. That is something that I'll be able to keep for a long, long time. In the meanwhile I'll just keep using my little Pioneer 656A for DVD playback. Once HD-DVD hits, I'll grab a nice DVD only player.
The question is what cd/sacd player to get? Is SACD really that much better than CD? There are more and more SACD titles being released that I like. (DVD-A seems to be dying a slow ugly death.) If SACD isn't all that much better than standard CD, wouldn't I be better off getting a really nice CD only player? Oye...too many technologies.
I'm no golden-eared audiophile, but I can easily discern a difference between SACD and regular CD. I have a few dual-layer CD/SACDs that I can compare against each other. The differences are most apparent in the mid-to-high end of the audio spectrum. Cymbals, acoustic guitars, and female vocals are great demo material for hearing the difference.
This Phillips SACD player is apparently very good, and is now on sale for a great price.
I have love/hate feelings about SACD/DVDa and multi channel music in general.
Recording that (sonicaly) sounded like crap to begin with (before they were rehashed to SACD from old masters) still sound like crap with little improvement. Newer recording (such as Norah Jones'-
Come away with me that were mastered with DSD in mind can be breathtaking and I would take these SACD recordings over PCM any day. Some of the older recording put to SACD such as the recent "re-releases" of the Rolling Stones albums definately sound a little better and different than the originals but to me, not enough to justify the extra bucks.
I almost always listen to SACD in stereo. I haven't been able to warm up to multi-ch yet. The problem I have with it is that it bothers me to hear well defined instrument (any instruments) images coming from the surround channels. They seem to be getting better about this as recording engineers get more savy about mixing the tracks but still if you think about it - if they don't place direct images in the surrounds what do they put there?...."ambient sound". But to my humble ears, much of this so called "ambient sound" just sounds like pleasant
noise. I guess the idea is to put the listener in the "middle of it all" but I'm just not ready to be up on stage with the band/symphony/choir etc. I'm still happy just to be in the audience.
I'm still on the fence about SACD/DVDa and to coin a phrase from G. "Dubya"...I'm a "fence shitter".
In reply to:
I'm no golden-eared audiophile
Really? You sure had me fooled
.
Sure, I've bad my ears bronzed, but that's a far cry from gold.
That philips player looks very much like the pioneer I have now, but instead of dvd-a it has sacd.
I'm looking for a major step up from that level of player. I don't want to buy another cd player ever again after this purchase. Thankfully CD technology seems pretty stable. SACD seems to be establishing itself fairly well also. So...CD/SACD player anyone?
I have yet to find ANY DVD-A titles I like. On SACD, Norah Jones is stunning.
Have yet to try the DVD-A functionality of my Denon 2200.
I know...
I have one DVD-A that I ever listen to. (Fleetwood Mac's Rumours) I always stop by the DVD-A section of my local Best Buy, and there's never anything new. The SACD section is right next to it, and there's always new stuff showing up. Bowie, Billy Joel, Peter Gabriel...
I've spent the day surfing the web looking for some info on a really good cd/sacd player, and I'm not finding much. SACD seems to be mostly mass market or super high end. Not much in the way of mid-fi stuff.
still searching...
Again though, it's a DVD player. I'm really looking for the best possible audio performance. I don't even need video at all. When HD-DVD arrives, I'll purchase a dedicated DVD player then.
Anyone have any experience with this?
Marantz SA-8260
That link shows it as $0.00! At that price, it can't be beat.
How about Pioneer 563 ($170) universal player for audio only? I have heard good reviews about it. For video, I just ordered a Samsung 931 from Buy.com ($230). The setup is a killer for the money, but I am a little unsure about the Pioneer 563.
Craig, you continue to imply that the presence of DVD capability somehow compromises the sound quality of a player when playing CDs. As I've pointed out previously, this is yet another audio myth that has no basis in fact, regardless of how many report hearing clear differences. Players can have dual lasers which are optimum for both discs, operating at a 780nm wavelength for CDs and 650nm for DVDs. Get the CD player you want and if it also happens to play DVDs it won't affect CD play in the least.
It's not so much that, as I'll be buying a dvd player again soon (soon-ish), and don't see the point of buying one now.
If there's a universal player that sounds as good as that Marantz, or some other SACD player, let me know.
Price range < $1000
try some selections from aix records, an axiomite turned me on to them.
dan
What is wrong woth the Denon 2900?
It has exceptional redbook CD sound and incredible DVD-A and SACD sound.
It also has great picture quality.
It runs for about $775 online and now come in a silver version to match your Rotel gear. Here is a link:
http://www.everything4electronics.com/categoryproducts.aspx?ID=19&Name=DVD
This player has incredible sound and picture beat only by Denon's 5900 player, which is out of your price range.
The silver 2900 has definately been a thought.
Thanks for the tip on that one, but it can't play multi-channel music.
Anyone know about the new
Pioneer? It's supposed to compete with the Denon's. It hasn't generated the buzz that the 2900 or 5900 has.
Hmmm...If Pioneer could make a really kick butt player that would be great. You can usually find Pioneer gear at stupidly discounted prices.
In reply to:
but it can't play multi-channel music.
$1495.00 and no multi-channel
! What the hell?
Yes Mike, from the description it appears to be another example of overpriced high-end nonsense; a player which handles only one disc and offers only "uncompromising" 2-channel playback of SACDs(presumably there are no multi-channel outputs). In my view the multi-channel aspect is the only significant factor in SACDs and DVD-As.
Here are a few I've found. What are your ideas guys?
Pioneer DV-868AVi
Pioneer DV-59AVi
Denon 2900
Denon 5900
or should I go audio only with something like this...
Marantz SA-8260
I bought a new player, purely for Audio performance, but I wanted excellent DVD-A as well as pure DSD SACD decoding, in addition wanted something that made my CDs sound the best they could.
Under $1000 there was really one choice that fit that bill for me, and that was the Denon 2900. All the upgrades from the 2200 go into the audio side. Pure direct modes where all extra processing and displays can be toggled off. Proper bass management (of course DSD needs to go to PCM by default, analog BM is the only way around this as far as I know, not a big deal because nearly all SACD content was first converted to PCM for mixing anyway). This thing is a tank, weights nearly 20 lbs and has completely separete audio and video circuitry, the same Custom BurrBrown 1790 DACs found in the 5900. Beefy power supply and upgraded analog section compared to the 2200 (already a decent unit). There is a reason so many in the modding community have picked the 2900, and that is the high level of components already there. (for my 2 cents, much of modding done after this level is more a matter of difference than better, and I love the performance of the 2900 stock).
For a pure SACD player you may be able to save a couple hundred $$ and have the same performance (I don't know, I haven't personally listened to them). DVD-A isn't totally dead (seems to be picking up steam). BestBuy has a really crappy selection but, online is much better. I own 3 times more DVD-A than SACD....Fleetwood Mac Rumors, Queen The Game, Blue Man Group, Eagle Hotel CA, REM best of, etc. It is very nice to be able to have the flexibility to play both.
Even if they adopt a pure digital stream, I wouldn't be too excited. The DACs and analog stage in the 2900 and 5900 (and I presume the other brands in this $$ range) are better than those in even the best receivers (and most seperates, save for outboard DACs).
5900 and 2900 sound very close to the same, I couldn't hear a differnce until someone mentioned something...so I couldn't be unbiased anymore. 5900's advantage is the ability to do time alignment to SACD (very few do this) which of course puts you back in DSD to PCM conversion.....I wouldn't worry about this until there are more SACDs out that record and mix in DSD...nearly everything in the industry is set up for PCM production, and there are not many made pure DSD....if someone has some good suggestions let me know!
And yes, it sounds spectacular on my Axioms!
If anyone is interested, I've decided to get the Denon 2900. It should be more than enough of an audio player for me for a good long time. I'll use it for everything for awhile, and when HD-DVD arrives, I'll buy a separate DVD player. I had a moment of clarity and realized that I really shouldn't be spending $700+ on an audio player. I can get a 2900 for about $500 delivered. (I got a guy on the inside.) I just hope he can come through with a silver model. But at that price, I won't be complaining about color.
Good luck with the 2900. It sounds like it should fit your bill (provided it's silver).
I'm eyeing the 5900 or the 59ai depending on what shakes out. But I'm obsessed with the DVI so that took the 2900 out of the equation.
Good luck!
I'm not worrying about the video portion at this time, because the best connection my current TV has is only s-video. I'm going to wait for the HD-DVD and HDTV revolution to settle a bit, and then get a new TV and DVD player.
fyi - I've seen the Pioneer DV-59avi for as low as $999.
2900 for $500? Now I'm jealous... I LOVE my 2200, although I haven't gotten a chance to test the PQ yet because my plasma is on backorder w/ Dell
The new Pio did make me jealous, as I'd consider getting a DVI player. But I think I'm saving those extra $$$ for the HD-DirecTivo, which I just found out has DVI.
Yeah, I saw your posts on AVS about the $999. I'm super cautious about where I buy this stuff from though. I don't plan to buy from:
a) anywhere that appears to be a warehouse. From what I've been able to tell they often cancel orders, and to boot they insist on getting you on the phone and hocking other stuff to you.
b) an unauthorized dealer - I don't want warranty hassles. I'd rather pay a bit more and be sure the warranty will be honored rather than the old "uhh..yeah, of course we are!"
I'd be surprised from what I've learned to see authorized dealers selling the 59avi for $999 authorized already?
Thanks for the tip though.
There's details on HD directv Tivo? Maybe it's on the AVS forum, I'll have to scope it out..thanks!
-Nick