My Atmos thread

Posted by: SirQuack

My Atmos thread - 01/02/17 08:35 PM

Figured I would start my own thread, didn't want to spam Aarons smile. Below are some pics I took tonight after I removed my rear Qs8s which were much higher and put on some onwall 22s. Luckily I had enough slack in my prior wiring job I was able to drop them. The left and right surrounds will be a different story. The left surround Qs8 was connected with Axioms onwall flat speaker wire and then painted over. I used one of their connection blocks to connect a small piece of reg speaker wire to the back of the Qs8. I have some extra flat wire so would be able to figure out how to come down 90deg and drop it to same level as the rears. The right Qs8 is on a reg framed wall, so hopefully I can snake up and pull the wire down, might have to add a little.

Was thinking about trading in for 2 more m22 onwalls? I have a pair of reg bookshelf 22s, but they are rear ported so can't use them.

Still have no idea which ceiling speakers to use for Atmos/DTSx and where to position them so both rows get affects.







Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/02/17 09:32 PM

Nice looking room. I like what nick did with his ceiling speakers the fronts ones angled back and the back ones angle forward. There are other manufacturers I have looked at that have in ceilings that let the insert tilt the whole speaker as well as controlling direction. I probly will be goin for KEF Uni-Q in ceiling speakers, expensive but I really like their design. For me the M22 cabinet would be no problem to make into on walls but if you cant do that I would say trade them in if your intent on going atmos. Also I have QS8's and even if I go atmos I will keep them and try different scenarios to make sure there was no way I could live with them. In my world everything people consider a rule I consider a guideline. You see a speed sign that say 55 I see 70, 55 is for average people LOL
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/03/17 03:48 PM

9 foot ceilings, right Randy?

You could go with speakers pointing pretty much straight down, a luxury that I didn't have with my ceiling being a little under 8 feet. In-ceiling would have an aimable tweeter to help direct the critical sound towards more seats. On-ceiling could have a small "shim" between it and the ceiling to aim them as well, but even so it probably isn't totally needed.

Here is a crude picture showing where I would start targeting ceiling speaker placement. Measurements and some minor calculations would be in order. You *might* get a little "spotlighting" of the rear speakers over the 2nd row like in my picture, but part of the goal is to put the overheads "in the gaps" of your other speakers while still being within the correct angle ranges from your primary listening position.

I just tossed them up about half way between your rear and side surrounds. The fronts are purposefully put slightly closer to the listening area than smack-dab in between the listening area and the front soundstage. DTS:X likes the overheads pretty much on the walls, Atmos wants them to form an overhead box just outside of the listening area. With a 2nd row back like yours (and mine) that isn't possible for the rears. Also, since the front soundstage is the most powerful part of the theater, you want to fronts a little closer to "Atmos spec" so that they aren't overpowered by the front speakers.

Again, this is crudely done, but would give you an idea.

Oh, and yes, move Yoda and get the side surrounds down.

Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/03/17 04:19 PM

I doubt very many people can achieve the ideal installation as laid out by dolby. All you can do is work within the confines of your space and I am sure that you will still be more than happy with the results. Once all the speakers are in run the atmos setup aand it will take care of the discrepancies. After that you can fine tune if you feel one speaker is overpowering are too distracting.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/03/17 04:36 PM

Thanks guys! Nick you must have read my mind. I took off today and have been down there thinking about all of this and your "crude" picture is exactly what I am planning. There is a drop down bulk head just behind where the projector is and above the rear seats which hides the return ducting but I still think there is enough room for me to get the rear ceiling speakers in there to cover per your picture.

I know the joists in the ceiling are running from front to back I am just hoping there isn't one of those brace pieces you sometime see between the joists that would interfere with me pulling cable. I have a few ideas on how to get the wiring up to the front and then over to my AV area. Probably use some cable raceways like I did to my projector. I found the boxes for my old speakers that show the shipping date so that gives me an idea of when I purchased them. I can't find any receipts or emails on what I payed, so for now I just took off 10% to estimate the price increases over the years. I'm guessing Axiom will adjust if they don't feel the quote was correct.

Do you think I would be ok "matching" using 22 onwalls for walls and the M3 inwall for the ceiling? Since I already have the rear 22's I would have to get another pair for the sides. Also the pictures are a bit misleading but for the ceiling speakers I think I can still get them slightly "outside" the listening area on the sides, just not behind the rear row as you mentioned.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/03/17 08:17 PM

Denon/Marantz showed off a set of overhead in-ceiling speakers in their CEDIA demo this past fall that had 8" woofers and their other speakers maxed out at 6.5". With modern room correction, the woofer sizes aren't quite as critical, especially with a receiver that can handle bass management and frequency corrections like most current receivers.

Brand matching to me is still important as you are getting the same flat target response from each of the Axiom products, as you already know, but a slight variance in woofer size is fine. In fact, they will help to fill in a little of the deeper frequencies in Atmos playback even when the sound is noticeably coming from the traditional surround speakers.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/04/17 07:45 PM

looks like Gibbys has some decent prices from what I can tell, converting their prices to US dollars appears to be about $2257 for the AVM60, looks like they only accept paypal or wire transfer which is not a big deal. The shipping notes say any local taxes, duty or brokerage fees are extra and are your responsibility. The cost of shipping is evaluated on an item -by-item basis depending on the size and weight of the item in addition to the delivery location.
Minimum shipping charges to the US are $19.99. Brokerage fees are extra. If the cost is more than $19.99, you will be contacted before the product is shipped, and informed of the additional shipping costs, plus I"m sure there is insurance.

So not sure what the price really would be in the end.

Funny thing is I've got a telescope and accessories that I'm selling on another site, and some guy from eastern canada is interested. The prices would be a wash...lol
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/04/17 08:08 PM

tell him to buy the avm 60 and you can make a trade win win
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/04/17 09:53 PM

That is what I was thinking, lol, So he would have to purchase it for $2999 Canadian which is about what I'm asking for my scope in US. Hmmmm He probably would not get hit with additional charges I assume. The only thing is he is going to transfer the funds to me via paypal before I ship the scope, we would have to trust each other swapping equipment, lol
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/04/17 11:09 PM

arh you would lose the dollar difference advantage. I get the trust thing , although I trust most of the people on this forum. I sent serenity now my Antimode and that worked out fine. Decisions decisions eh.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 09:38 AM

The other thing to consider is if the warranty would transfer to you or not.
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 12:52 PM

Cmon Nick its made in Canada you don't need no stinkin warranty smile
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 02:54 PM

Yeah, you'd think. smile
My Anthem MRX-1120 had to be sent back in after a week of ownership due to a flaw with it. They actually acted like it was my fault that it had an issue, but after they got it in their support center and messed with it, they opted not to try to fix it and to just ship me a new receiver. The dealer that I bought it from said that they wanted to use it to better their quality control on the assembly line, so to speak.

It was really odd because they wanted me to ship it back instead of going to my closest dealer to swap out a brand new (1 week old) receiver. Left me without a new receiver for almost 3.5 weeks (still had my old Onkyo, so it wasn't like I was out of commission). LOL

That being said, it is interesting how my theater has so much Canadian audio products in it. Even with my above mentioned oddity issue with the Anthem when I got it, "Made in Canada" still means "quality" to me.
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 05:37 PM

Well nothing is perfect, and glad they took care of you. I have that fear when I buy from south of the border. I bought from Emotiva , so far so good fingers cross and all that LOL. I suggested to Sir Quack to maybe look at Emotiva , the XMC-1 is a really nice processor and the Dirac is state of the Art
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 05:42 PM

I will never go back to Emo, long story. There are posts from about 6 yrs ago, lol
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 07:17 PM

I have Gibbys working up a quote for me, will see what they say. So Socketman, have you purchased from them before, do you live close? Are they like Best Buy here in the states?
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 07:32 PM

No I have not purchased from them before but I found out about htem from redflag deals and I also found solutions AV from thre and they have a good rep. I do not live close but I could use my parents address in BC or my kid is in Alberta and also someone I know on the board may be willing to help out but I would have to check first. I see us here as a family so if they don't ship or its stupid cost then I can help ya out. If you ship here it may help with warranty. I could ship as a gift as well.
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 07:34 PM

Damn well I only been with emo for a few years but they have always played fair with me. I even talked to big dan on the phone and that's the kind of service I expect and he did me a solid. Sorry they didn't work out for you. But like all companies they improve over time typically so perhaps a second look wouldn't hurt.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 07:48 PM

Yeah it goes back a ways. At the time their top of the line amp, MPS1 I think? Anyway, it kept shutting down with my M80s. Emo blamed Axiom saying they are way below 4 ohm speakers as their amp drives other 4 ohm hungry speakers with no issues. Lonnie I believe was his name at Emo said they have a "special" limiting switch that shuts down to protect the amp if a speaker dips to low. He said I could "cut" or "solder" it off the board to bypass, umm I don't think so, lol Actually, they did give me very good customer service and let me return it after testing for a long time...
Posted by: AAAA

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 07:56 PM

If you go with Gibby's I'd like some feedback on the experience if you can share. Any insight on their shipping times would be nice and general service. Thanks. smile
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 08:02 PM

sure will, and now TroyD is telling me about Peak Audio in Halifax, Nova Scotia. smile
Posted by: AAAA

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 08:08 PM

havent made it there yet. I've been warned its a good place to leave money. laugh
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 08:18 PM

@serenity , what audio dealer isn't . My credit card flys outta my wallet when I get in those stores
Posted by: Newf

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/05/17 09:34 PM

Originally Posted By nickbuol
9 foot ceilings, right Randy?

You could go with speakers pointing pretty much straight down, a luxury that I didn't have with my ceiling being a little under 8 feet. In-ceiling would have an aimable tweeter to help direct the critical sound towards more seats. On-ceiling could have a small "shim" between it and the ceiling to aim them as well, but even so it probably isn't totally needed.

Here is a crude picture showing where I would start targeting ceiling speaker placement. Measurements and some minor calculations would be in order. You *might* get a little "spotlighting" of the rear speakers over the 2nd row like in my picture, but part of the goal is to put the overheads "in the gaps" of your other speakers while still being within the correct angle ranges from your primary listening position.

I just tossed them up about half way between your rear and side surrounds. The fronts are purposefully put slightly closer to the listening area than smack-dab in between the listening area and the front soundstage. DTS:X likes the overheads pretty much on the walls, Atmos wants them to form an overhead box just outside of the listening area. With a 2nd row back like yours (and mine) that isn't possible for the rears. Also, since the front soundstage is the most powerful part of the theater, you want to fronts a little closer to "Atmos spec" so that they aren't overpowered by the front speakers.

Again, this is crudely done, but would give you an idea.

Oh, and yes, move Yoda and get the side surrounds down.



This is how I have mine done. I have Axiom in ceilings, and the tweeters in front point back, and the tweeters in back point up front.
Posted by: AAAA

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/06/17 04:39 AM

Randy, this vid is old now, but still relevant. May give you some confidence in your decision before you cut holes. smile

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DFbqJkjfABQ

I have been doing a bit of research in the last few weeks about jumping to immersive finally. Strongly considering the x4300/x6300H. If you read the manual the custom setup options, including editing audyssey curves per channel,individual crossovers, seperate F/L eq options, seperate stereo LFE settings, etc it seems like a robust option.

I'll be watching your thread closely, as I did Nick's. smile
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/06/17 09:29 AM

Oh boy, oh boy... Anthony Grimani! Good stuff for sure. I made "updated" Dolby Atmos diagrams based off of this exact video back in 2014 as well...

Let me see if I can dig them up.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/06/17 09:42 AM

OK. So maybe it was just 1 diagram.

Anthony likes 9.1.2 over 7.1.4, but the implementation of from wides has eluded the mainstream market's options.



EDIT: Photobucket sucks. I am going to snag the image and put it up on Imgur....
Posted by: TroyD

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/06/17 01:50 PM

Originally Posted By SirQuack
sure will, and now TroyD is telling me about Peak Audio in Halifax, Nova Scotia. smile


Hi Randy I am going to Halifax tonight for a Mooseheads game if I get in early enough I will run over and get a price on the AVM60 and MRX1120. If not I have to go back tomorrow golfing. I will take a trip over then. Too bad that guy isn't in Halifax maybe he is . I will message tomorrow night the cost I get from Peak Audio and also if they will ship to the US and I can find out a shipping cost to IOWA
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/06/17 05:51 PM

Thanks Troy, well Gibbys won't sell large ticket items to the US, just smaller electronics and accessories, even though their website says they ship to US. Oh well, no biggy as I don't have money burning a hole in my pockets. smile lol

I do think I have my telescope sold, so that will help. I also have an email to a local dealer to see what they say.. smile Thanks everyone...
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/06/17 05:52 PM

Thanks Troy, well Gibbys won't sell large ticket items to the US, just smaller electronics and accessories, even though their website says they ship to US. Oh well, no biggy as I don't have money burning a hole in my pockets. smile lol

I do think I have my telescope sold, so that will help. I also have an email to a local dealer to see what they say.. smile Thanks everyone...
Posted by: AAAA

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/06/17 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By nickbuol
Oh boy, oh boy... Anthony Grimani! Good stuff for sure. I made "updated" Dolby Atmos diagrams based off of this exact video back in 2014 as well...

Let me see if I can dig them up.


I miss the helpful Grimani vids. Most of late have been advertisements for his super speakers and custom setups. A gecko 's gotta eat I guess. laugh
Posted by: TroyD

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/06/17 11:45 PM

No Problem we had a half snow storm this afternoon so made it late getting into Halifax. I am going indoor golfing tomorrow. After that I'll take a run over and see what they say.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/06/17 11:59 PM

I can't believe Crutchfield is the only authorized online site for Anthem and they never have discounts. Still waiting to see if I hear from a few local stores here in Iowa.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 10:40 AM

I have some emails into 2 dealers here in Iowa, but so far no return email...
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 10:50 AM

Yeah, I've heard that Iowa is one of those states where A/V dealers in general are slow to respond to individuals compared to some other states (per some of the guys at AVS in Iowa that have tried to reach out in general). They are looking for the home builder projects and such, not a single item sale.


Hopefully you will have better luck.

For Anthem around you, there is like 3 options...
Audio Labs (claims to have a storefront, but I can't verify that)
A+ Home Solutions (installer)
Intelligent Integration (installer - web page goes to a company called "Reference". They do have a live chat option that popped up when I went there.)

I got mine from an installer, but again, he was strumming up business on Facebook (I think so that he could say that he sold more Anthem products than anyone in his region), but other installers might not be so eager for the single product sale.

Hopefully I am wrong.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 11:31 AM

yep, AL is in downtown DSM right on Locust, been there forever and I do believe they have a walk in storefront. I also saw the others you mentioned from their site. I also sent a message to Hawkeye up in Cedar Falls, but a Sony turntable from them back in the 90s. smile

There is also a place over in Davenport and Omaha area..
Posted by: TroyD

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 07:11 PM

OK, not as cheap as I thought but the MRX720 was
the AVM60 $2800
MRX1120 $3130

Plus tax %15 he's not allowed to ship to USA Anthem products

The AVM60 would be about $2250 usd plus shipping. probably close to the same in Iowa
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 07:25 PM

I think the AVM60 sells for $2999 here in the states which is suggested retail price. So I'm a little confused, so he gave you a price in US dollars of $2250, but can't ship it? Plus another 15% tax or $337? plus shipping? Probably would work then...
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By TroyD
OK, not as cheap as I thought but the MRX720 was
the AVM60 $2800
MRX1120 $3130

Plus tax %15 he's not allowed to ship to USA Anthem products

The AVM60 would be about $2250 usd plus shipping. probably close to the same in Iowa


Are those initial numbers in USD or CAD? If CAD, then the 1120 would be about $2365USD + 15% (about $355USD) plus shipping, say $50ish.

$2770 USD for the MRX 1120 if my math is correct. And the guy is still making a good profit.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 07:33 PM

Originally Posted By SirQuack
I think the AVM60 sells for $2999 here in the states which is suggested retail price. So I'm a little confused, so he gave you a price in US dollars of $2250, but can't ship it? Plus another 15% tax or $337? plus shipping? Probably would work then...


Yeah, that shipping to the US part is partially my fault. Seriously.

I got my 1120 from a Canadian installer for a "really good price" and then when Anthem found out that he was selling south of the border to the US, they got all over him about it. He was undercutting U.S. dealer prices pretty steeply to be honest. A great deal for me (and a few others), but it ended really quick when someone blew the whistle after I simply mentioned online that I got a great deal from him... Someone noticed that I was in the U.S. and that he was in Canada and they called him out for it.

You would need to get someone in Canada to buy it on your behalf and ship it to you, but then you would still have to find out somehow about the warranty transfer.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 07:43 PM

but someone in Canada would have to pay canadian prices right, which they probably would not want to do since it is much higher. yeah the warranty thing might not be good, but lets say someone has a relative in the states and it is a gift, you can't get warranty?
Posted by: TroyD

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 08:24 PM

No
I did the exchange rate ...
The AVM60 is $2800cdn plus tax which is %15 $420 = $3220.
which using the conversion rates today is $2432usd.

I am not exactly sure but shipping I think is around $50cdn
Pretty sure no Duty is payable either
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 08:33 PM

If you send someone in Canada the money in US dollars it will be converted to Canadian dollars. I would only pay 5% tax since I live in the Yukon but the shipping would be a bit higher. Gibbys sale ends Jan 7th and I would think shipping to here would be around 50 Canadian.
Posted by: TroyD

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 08:37 PM

YEh, you would send the $2432 usd e-transfer or whatever. Not much different than buying on Canuck Audio Mart.
plus whatever the shipping would be. it would convert it automatically to cdn $$
they go to Peak Audio and buy it, take it to Post Office wrap it up and mail it to you.

The warranty would be Canadian that be the hard part to get around other than ship it back and the person buying it would pretend it was still his/hers.

Not sure what tax rate is in Iowa %5 ? I guess saves you $700 and hope there are no need for warranty in the first year.
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 08:42 PM

15% tax is stupid. sorry bout your luck living there . Buying from NS would be another 300 over what I pay. The Warranty is the bugaboo for sure and nick did have issues.
Posted by: TroyD

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 08:55 PM

I don't make the tax laws ;( it sucks though.
but, I also don't live in -40 lol and only heat my house 3 months a year, so in the end there are trade offs.
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 09:09 PM

Yup everywhere is a tradeoff but I get northern living allowance for my income tax too. But I imagine a house there is pretty cheap these days. Plus 24hr daylight is sweet. I just hate paying tax's as I'm sure everyone does,no point in Sir!Q paying extra 300 was all I was getting at.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 09:58 PM

Ok guys I think I get it now, lol. Basically I would transfer money to someone via paypal or other method once we figure out total price+shipping+tax, they would purchase from whatever Canadian store has best price and ship. So if you have warranty issues you don't work directly with Anthem? But, I suppose they want proof of purchase, that could get tricky and I'm sure the serial numbers sold in the US might be different than other countries, not sure.

Well, I am not exactly ready to make the purchase yet. I am selling my telescope tomorrow to a guy locally for $1800. Also, have some other stuff I need to unload on before I can do the deal. Who knows maybe I will find an offer here in the states or maybe another deal will come up in your neck of the woods.

I did figure out that I can use In Ceiling M3's and will be able to route wiring easily to my AV closet. I will have to email Debbie or whoever to see what kinda of trade I can get on my used speakers.

I wish Axiom still had the site that allowed users to post/sell to other Axiom members.
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/07/17 10:26 PM

If you had a warranty issue you could contact whomever helped you purchase it and then ship it directly to Anthem but when repaired it would be shipped back to whomever they shipped to during the initial sale and then you would pay to ship it back to you . Kinda convoluted and if nick hadn't had problems I would not be quite as skeptical about this idea. I have done a bit of reading at AVS and other people report some issues as well. Honestly some of these small players can have QC issues and I have seen more than a few problems reported in Emotiva's site for power board failures and I am sure there were plenty that were not complained about in the forums. I worry everytime I mine on since Tennessee is a long way from here though they have a repair depot in Calgary last I heard. Hopefully something will work for you that you can live with.
Posted by: TroyD

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/08/17 08:18 AM

Yeh, don't get me wrong I hate the %15 sales tax and I hate like hell paying a higher income tax here than say Ontario. I did my taxes up last year and would of paid $2200 less in Ontario. Think when I retire I am moving though. That 2K would go along way.
I paid $170k for mine 3 yrs ago was 4 bdrm split 44 x 26.
Yeh, not sure I can get into 24 hr daylight lol I'd never know when to sleep. Love my for seasons though, wish for no spring, hate the Black Flies and Mosquitoes.

Basically, that's it Randy seems alot just to save $700 but, there's always a warranty chance but, I would think rare, I have a 10 year old MCA amp from Anthem and a AVM30 and no issues.

Be two chances you are taking in that purchasing it and no warranty issues.
Posted by: TroyD

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/08/17 08:23 AM

oh and
I have no issues if you decide in future. I can talk to the guy at Peak, think hos name is Steven, not sure the guy I talked to there the past 15 yrs retired a couple years ago. But, maybe you can paypal directly to them and I could pick it up and deliver it to the post office.
Just make arrangements to have it brown paper wrapped. This way they are not actually selling it to you.
or can just say in the email your paying for a friend.

I wonder if the warranties are transferable. Could say for instance after three months, I think it is too much for me and want to sell it and get the MRX720, can I sell it to a friend in the US and transfer the warranty to that area. Not sure how it would matter,to them.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/08/17 02:04 PM

I've seen a few Audio products that are transferable. Well the scope is gone so need to think about my next plan of attack. smile
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/08/17 02:16 PM

I bought a phono preamp from the US a few years back and it had to go back for repairs. I had to sign a declaration saying that it was going for warranty and had not been sold so I did not have to pay duty for it to cross the border. In light of this I believe there will be some duty that needs to be paid if you buy from Canada so I will check with my local PO and see what they say it will cost.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/08/17 02:53 PM

When I bought my Anthem from the installer in Canada, there was no duty to be paid. He thought that I would have to pay my local sales tax, but I didn't. When I sent it back in under warranty, it just was stated as such under the customs documentation, and there were no taxes/duty going back either.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/08/17 02:55 PM

Maybe Ian and company has connection with Anthem and can ship with whatever speakers I get. smile
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/08/17 03:10 PM

Anthem is in Mississauga, so about a 2.5 hour drive (on a good day) each way. Then again, since Anthem is part of Paradigm, any special relationships may not be in your favor. LOL
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/08/17 03:52 PM

I wonder if there will be a big issue since the m22 onwalls I have are circa V2? If I upgrade to 2 more onwall m22s for my left/right speakers I'm sure they will be whatever version is current? Will there be any voice matching to be concerned about? Also, the M3 inwall ceiling speakers will be newest technology as well.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/08/17 06:23 PM

I've got original Ti vintage M60 fronts, V3 (I think) VP180, four V3 M3s for surrounds, and four V4 M3s for overheads. I can't tell any difference at all. My room, even with all of the treatments, would color the different speakers more than the differences in V numbers. Room correction in your receiver should match them to sound extremely similar.
Posted by: TroyD

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/08/17 06:56 PM

The Free trade wipes out the Duties as Anthem AVM60 are made in Canada I believe.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/09/17 07:54 PM

Well Nick was right about that installer and Anthem stiring up the network. Because of that situation dealers here in Iowa (and I'm sure other states) are not allowed to ship to customers even within their own State or US, as they could lose their relationship with Paradigm/Anthem. They also are not allowed to quote anything but retail via email. I did call one place within a few hours (can't mention) and had a great visit with one of the owners. At this point I have a quote for $2500 US, but I would have to swing by and pick it up sometime. Also talked projectors and they have Epson, Sony, JVC, and few others. He quoted me a tempting price on the Epson 4040 which but I need to figure out this speaker/atmos and Anthem issue first. wink Hey Nick your thoughts on this new HD speaker Ian just announced, comes in Onwall version as well, compared to 22's for Atmos...
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/09/17 08:44 PM

That's a decent price for the AVM 60 and close enough by that warranty is handled. Myself I like buying local when I can just for that piece of mind. I buy my TV's locally.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/09/17 09:44 PM

Plus it would give me an excuse to go visit the inlaws, right on the way, lol
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/09/17 11:24 PM

I would say visiting the inlaws would be a good excuse to go buy the anthem.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/10/17 12:12 AM

Originally Posted By SirQuack
Well Nick was right about that installer and Anthem stiring up the network. Because of that situation dealers here in Iowa (and I'm sure other states) are not allowed to ship to customers even within their own State or US, as they could lose their relationship with Paradigm/Anthem. They also are not allowed to quote anything but retail via email. I did call one place within a few hours (can't mention) and had a great visit with one of the owners. At this point I have a quote for $2500 US, but I would have to swing by and pick it up sometime. Also talked projectors and they have Epson, Sony, JVC, and few others. He quoted me a tempting price on the Epson 4040 which but I need to figure out this speaker/atmos and Anthem issue first. wink Hey Nick your thoughts on this new HD speaker Ian just announced, comes in Onwall version as well, compared to 22's for Atmos...


What part of Iowa is the dealer located?

As for the M5, here is my thought. If you can fit them, you will likely enjoy them. The on-wall M3s work well in my (just under) 14' wide space, Anything bigger on the walls would have stuck out too far, and at the time I was also thinking of economic reasonings. I dropped my two pairs of QS8s and went out and grabbed $2000 worth of M3s for surround and Atmos duty. That is more than a lot of people spend on their entire system. I couldn't justify $560 more to go M22s. I couldn't possibly imagine myself spending $2800 on something like the on-wall M5s for surround and overhead duty, but again, that is all perspective too.

With that said, I heard a demo at the Denon & Marantz booth at CEDIA 2016 where they used 8" woofer enabled overheads. It was cool to actually experience some bass energy coming from the overheads during the demo, so there is certainly merit to something that can deeper, but I certainly am not disappointed with on-wall M3s running surround and overhead duty.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/10/17 06:40 PM

I called 3 dealers one from NW, Central, and NE Iowa. Two of them told me a story that they are no longer allowed to quote via email because of Anthem instruction and chance of losing contract, based on the installer in Canada that was selling to the States. I will say if I purchase one I won't be using my local dealer as they said they would be the same as Crutchfield, but then later said they would knock 50 off and waive tax, woopty ding dong. The one in NW Iowa offered a 10% inhouse discount, don't think so...So I will most likely go back to the first dealer from my college town as they seem willing to work with me some.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/10/17 10:43 PM

Originally Posted By SirQuack
So I will most likely go back to the first dealer from my college town as they seem willing to work with me some.


I know who that is! :-) Not a *fan* of their *name* per se (wink wink), but when we've done some eastern Iowa (and even central Iowa) theater crawls/open houses, they almost always bring some gear and sell stuff to Iowa AVS members for a good discount.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/11/17 06:45 PM

and you didn't let me know about the crawls, oh man. Yeah Kent from HAV told me about them...
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/12/17 12:30 AM

Yeah, up near Altoona is The Savoy. That space was a real treat of a room. I think that David (who built it) spent more on the HVAC (to allow cooling all year round) than a lot of people spend on their entire rooms.

I will me sure to mention the next one.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/14/17 11:19 AM

about $300 away from having enough cash to afford the AVM60, just need to have the dealer order one and lock down a final price. Also waiting on Debbie to reply to my email I sent on the 10th to see how much I can get out of my used speakers.
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/14/17 01:15 PM

So that just leaves the purchase of an amp? You must be getting excited. Soon the real work will begin. I would really hope to hear a true report on just how much better the sound is with Atmos.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/14/17 03:32 PM

Yes, still need to figure out some additional amps for the ceiling speakers, but also I am still waiting on Axiom (Debbie) or whoever to reply to my email I sent on the 10th on what I can do on a trade to get those speakers...
Posted by: Mojo

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/14/17 04:56 PM

Just buy the AVM60, Randy. The family can live without food for a week...LOL!
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/14/17 04:58 PM

The dealer is 2hrs away and would have to order one. They said it would take about a week or so to arrive. Anyone need a Denon 3808ci smile
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/15/17 01:04 AM

Hey, if I lived up in Cedar Falls I'd have you stop over....
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/15/17 06:16 PM

Has anyone painted the in-ceiling M3s yet? I could probably just leave them white since the round ceiling canned lights I have in the theater have a white trim ring. How easy is it to remove the ring and mesh cover? I would think some primer and spray paint would be best so you don't get the hole filled?
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/16/17 10:28 AM

M3s In-ceiling and another pair of M22s On-Wall ordered this morning via Trade In. Trading in my Qs8s frown , a pair of M22 bookshelfs, and a vp100 center. Thanks Axiom
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/16/17 04:17 PM

OMG I am so mad at myself. I was just down in the basement pondering my changes I will have to make by dropping my current Qs8 wiring positions in the walls for my onwall m22s. I had everything on watching directv.

I have all my speaker wires coming out of my outlaw am terminated with banana plugs. I didn't have everything labeled greatly on my wall jacks so I was unplugging a few of the channels from the wall ports to find out which ones were my side surrounds.

Here is where my day started sucking. I guess I accidentally touched some of the plugs from the back left channels and saw a spark. From that point forward the back left/rear channels on the output stage of the amp are no longer working.... frown frown

I did some testing and in the end had to call Outlaw. The guy said since the rails in their amps have so much voltage, I think he said 40v in the 7700, I will have to send it in for repair. Would be different if it was the input side.

this thing weighs 93lbs, and I'm sure shipping will cost a fortune. Plus it will take 3+ weeks for it to be repaired possibly depending on what is wrong. I can't believe this...
Posted by: AAAA

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/16/17 04:34 PM

In future you can identify channels with a battery. Or ring out the wires with a multimeter.

If you are out of warranty crack the case and check for blown fuses. Probably a couple $ fix. I dont know how handy you are, but usually if it is an easy fix it is worth doing yourself. smile Hope its something simple.

Oh yeah, dangerous voltages are present when plugged in. Unplug and let sit a few minutes while the caps fully discharge before you poke around. wink
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/16/17 05:32 PM

yup been there done that with my Denon 3311 but it was the hdmi moved and sparked while I was back there. I thought I toasted it. I restarted and no difference, unplugged it for a bit and plugged back in and away it went. Man I was trippin, that horrible feeling in your gut. I feel for ya. The manual says it has protection circuitry and no fuses. bah.
Posted by: Mojo

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/16/17 05:51 PM

Wow Randy. You blew up the emotiva AND the outlaw!

What serenity said.

I have the last good receiver Onkyo ever made. All speaker outputs are short circuit protected. It saved me once.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/16/17 06:28 PM

there are no fuses unfortunately, I asked that right up front.
Posted by: TroyD

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/16/17 09:09 PM

Randy I didn't think you could trade in multiple products on one.
I was thinking Of trading in my M22 I just got three months ago and the EP350 I just got two months ago onto a M5HP .;(
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/19/17 06:25 PM

Thanks Axiom, I already got my new speakers, now just need to send mine back to complete the trade. Oh wait, I shipped my amp to Outlaw for repair. frown Oh wait, I can just use my Denon, lol
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/20/17 09:19 PM

for those with the in-ceiling M3's, any help on how to adjust the tweeter angle. I didn't get a manual and online don't see any steps. There are a number of screws for the main bracket as well as what look like a center screw to adjust the tweeters?

Also, thoughts on if I decide to paint the mesh screen and or the white perimeter ring, trying to see how to disassemble that as well.

thanks
Posted by: TroyD

Re: My Atmos thread - 01/21/17 06:49 PM

The VP160 is shipping out next week yaah.
Now to finish paying the QS8's off and the EP500
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/03/17 05:53 PM

M3 InCeiling speakers painted and installed, pulling new wiring was fun.

Qs8s all removed and replaced with M22 on walls at lowered positions.

Anthem AVM60 on order should arrive in about a week.

Outlaw Amp repaired on on the way back.

Getting excited.

Now just need to get an amp to drive my M3s, considering another Outlaw 5000 or the Emo Basx A500.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/04/17 01:52 AM

Nice, but where are the photos?
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/04/17 05:29 PM

Have some cleaning up to do before I can post pics. smile Now I need to focus on selling my Denon 3808ci.
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/04/17 07:44 PM

how many in ceiling speakers did you put in
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/04/17 08:59 PM

4 M3 InCeiling...
Posted by: AAAA

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/04/17 09:33 PM

cool
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/04/17 10:21 PM

Well i am looking forward to your impressions though you have made a wholesale change hopefully some qualitative info can be gleaned. I am also interested to know how ATMOS sounds without using the overhead speakers but still be object based surround vs speaker .
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/05/17 08:24 PM

Originally Posted By Socketman
Well i am looking forward to your impressions though you have made a wholesale change hopefully some qualitative info can be gleaned. I am also interested to know how ATMOS sounds without using the overhead speakers but still be object based surround vs speaker .


Don't let some of the fanatical freaks over in AVS's Atmos thread see you asking that question.

I mentioned that I did an A/B test of an Atmos title about a year ago before I had overhead speakers. I tried a Dolby TrueHD 7.1 mix of a movie (I don't remember what movie) and then played the same clip back in Atmos. Even without overheads, the sounds panned around the room a lot smoother in Atmos and were more precisely located. Still not a full Atmos level, but it was "better." Maybe not "better" enough to justify buying a new receiver without having the overhead speakers, but better. I even had my wife and daughter listen to the A/B test and they said that the Atmos one (without knowing which was which) sounded slightly better each time.

I got reamed by a few people over there (just 2), as did about half a dozen or so other people that experienced the same thing that I did.

So take it for what it is worth.

I was "borrowing" an Onkyo TX NR646 from Best Buy while my Onkyo TX NR709 was off at Onkyo being repaired. It was more of a trial run to see what the Onkyo could do since that was a product I was familiar with, but I would have to get a different model to get me to 7.1.4 (which at the time would have meant at least one extra 2-channel amp). In the end, I liked the Atmos test, but Onkyo dropped Audyssey, and with my acoustical treatments in my room, Audyssey would really tighten things up vs the new proprietary system that Onkyo was using since it only had to make tweaks and not drastic changes. In the end, I skipped all of the mainstream brands and went Anthem and LOVE it, but that is a whole different story.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/05/17 08:34 PM

What does Atmos do for Non-Atmos engineered DVDs? I assume it "upmixes" them in some way?
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/05/17 08:40 PM

I just found this, so not sure it is the same as Atmos DVD, but appears it processes it as long as you send it bitstream. We currently use Ps3 which is in bitstream mode to let my Denon process the encoding.

"For the most part, any Blu-ray player that supports Dolby TrueHD and bitstreamed output should support Dolby Atmos. Dolby is wrapping up the Atmos "objects" (the height information) into a Dolby TrueHD wrapper that works with existing players and receivers. When you send that Dolby TrueHD soundtrack out over HDMI to a Dolby Atmos-capable receiver or processor in bitstream mode, the receiver or processor detects that it is actually a Dolby Atmos track and processes the sound accordingly. "
Posted by: Newf

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/05/17 09:12 PM

Originally Posted By SirQuack
What does Atmos do for Non-Atmos engineered DVDs? I assume it "upmixes" them in some way?


Yes it does. Ceilings will be used and can be quite good.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/06/17 03:46 PM

Yes. The core of Atmos is just Dolby TrueHD (in an ideal case, it can be a core of Dolby Digital too), and then it carries "metadata" as well giving the sound 3D spatial locations (not "channels") to reproduce the sound at a specific point in the room, or as best as the system can render it with the speakers and their locations that are installed. So a regular blu-ray player will work. There are some really old players that people say don't work, but I heard that those were like generation 1 blu-ray players.

You will find that you will just default everything to DSU (Dolby Surround Upmixer). It will still do native Atmos for discs/files encoded that way, and upmix everything else and you will love it.

Don't expect the overheads to be active all of the time. I think that it is something like 5% of a native Atmos movie will include them. Concerts use them more throughout, but for ambiance more than anything.

For a while, people were really loving the DTS Neural X upmixer, but now people are saying that while it is more aggressive, it isn't as accurate as the Dolby Surround Upmixer.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/10/17 07:16 PM

My Outlaw baby is back home and I was just notified my Anthem AVM 60 arrived (2hr drive away). What to do...
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/10/17 07:51 PM

Its a nice night for a drive. could snow tomorrow. smile
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/12/17 08:33 AM

Anthem installed and sounds great with no calibration. Updated firmware as well. Now hunting for an amp for the ceiling speakers. Most likely the Outlaw 5000, or possibly Emotiva A500.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/13/17 04:48 AM

Oh boy. Wait until you run ARC....
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/13/17 12:27 PM

Yep, can't wait. Plan to cycle the sub channel and play with position, phase, levels, etc to try and get the best curve "before" ARC.

I decided to give Emotiva another chance. For those old timers you might remember I had issues with their once King of the Hill amp the MPS1, it kept shutting down driving my M80s. I ordered the BASx A500 to use 4 of the channels to drive my M3 In Ceiling speakers. I was going to get the Outlaw 5000 which is a better amp spec wise, however, with shipping it would be almost $200 more than the A500 at $499.

I was thinking about getting some cheaper XLR Balanced interconnects since my AVM60 and 7700 amp have that option. The A500 just has unbalanced which will be fine. Shopping around for those now. I've read good things about GLS Audio.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/13/17 08:58 PM

Just FYI that ARC has a "quick measure" feature too that can help you get real time measurements as you tweak and adjust. The mice thing about this is that you can put the mic at your listening position, move your laptop into eyesight range, and adjust things at the sub while it is still measuring without having to go back and forth from sub to the seat to the sub back to the seat. Just saves time vs using a meter manually.

Just a thought.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/13/17 09:03 PM

Yep, I've read about that, also thought about possibly plugging the laptop into one of the hdmi inputs so the output would come on the projector?
Posted by: DonClancy

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/15/17 12:56 AM

Hi Randy (SirQuack)

How are you liking the Anthem MRX? I've used Denon for quite some time, but I'm considering Anthem MRX720.

Do you have any review comments at this point?
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/15/17 11:13 AM

I have the AVM60 which is a Preamp and use separate amplifiers. I think the processing end and Arc are identical. Nickbuol has the MRX1120 so I'm sure he will chime in.

To be honest I just got mine hooked up so haven't had a lot of time to tweak things or run ARC. I plan to do that over the next day or so. My last two receivers were Denon before this Anthem, at this point I think I am going to be happy with my purchase.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/17/17 11:57 PM

Well, I haven't actually played any material with ATMOS decoding on the DVD, but tonight we watched The Accountant and HOLY CRAP I can't believe how much better things sound. My kids even said they can tell a huge difference. The Accountant was in 7.1 DTS HD. It truely is amazing. I put in a few of my older action Bluray DVDs as well just to listen to some of the action scenes and was blown away.

One side note on my EP600 sub which has a newer amp replaced about 3 years ago I am hearing what I am describing as a fluttering sound of the woofer or air escaping during heavy LFE during movies. For ex. we were watching Superman Returns ( the star is from my town)..anyway, during the Jet scene as the LFE was growing in intensity, you could hear what sounded like a fluttering sound when the woofer was starting to pound.

Also, with ARC when I was setting up my subs, before I did the final measurements, I did the "quick" test to dial in phase and levels to get the 'before' graph as flat as possible. I could almost hear like a "pumping" sound of the driver on the EP600 over and over.

I will try snugging up all the hex bolts on the amp and river to make sure air isn't escaping somewhere...
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/18/17 12:44 AM

You made a pretty substantial upgrade to your speaker system, have you played any movies in just regular 5.1 or 7.1 without using the atmos upsampling. It would be interesting to see how you felt about the 7.1 speaker upgrade using your previous receiver. I know when i buy something new just he excitement makes a perceived improvement, not that i am saying that is the only thing going on here smile. So glad to hear all your hard work is paying dividends.

As for the sub i would try backing it down a bit and see if that changes anything. How Anthem handles dual subs really intrigues me, i wish dirac did the same. Sadly 3g is above my paygrade.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/18/17 11:50 AM

Randy, your initial experience (not the sub problem, but the rest of it) is what I experienced when I first fired up my Anthem MRX1120. Somehow something just was so much "better" sounding, and that was before running ARC.

Glad that you are seeing value for the investment. Now to sort out your sub... Oh, and play something in native Atmos.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/18/17 01:31 PM

The only upgrade was the ceiling speakers. I had 7.x before. Replaced my Qs8s with M22s for the surround locations. The Denon 3808ci was one of the kings back in the day. Initially I do thing ARC is much better than Audyssey Mult XT on my Denon. I did 7 measurements, one in each seat but can do up to 10. Might do another measurement and put the remaining 3 between the 2 rows, will see....

I don't think it is an issue where the sub needs to be dialed down they are all calibrated to have combined dB of 75dB. Last night I recalled I had removed the rubber feet. I have the horizontal EP600 but I actually stand it up in the back of the room. I thought it looked cleaner not having the feet sticking out so I removed them. But in doing so created 4 holes that I think air is escaping. Will do some more testing tonight...
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/18/17 01:47 PM

My mistake, there has been alot of people upgrading recently i thought you had also added the VP180 at the same time.I understand what your saying, i had Denon 3311 and when i went to the XMC-1 it was whole new ballgame and that was before running Dirac. Hopefully your sub issue is that simple that would be nice,keep us posted.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/18/17 08:00 PM

Yeah hard to keep everyone in check around these parts, lol. I've had the 180 for 3-4 yrs now I think... Watching Sully tonight, based on a true story, good movie..
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/18/17 09:42 PM

Can you watch a movie sans ATMOS using traditional true hd. I am still waiting for EMO to release their ATMOS upgrade, they run on a time zone all their own LOL. I also have a 5 Channel amp for my main 5 and also a 3 channel that used to run my front 3 ,not enough for atmos so im trying to sell it and then upgrade to another 4 or 6 channel. Much harder to do with the dollar the way it is plus owning a house. Ne way enjoy the movie .
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/18/17 10:38 PM

Trying to understand the question. From what I can tell any prior surround format even pro logic can be accepted they a receiver capable of Atmos. If I watch a movie that shows Dolby 5.1 on the DVD case, the Anthem display will show Dolby 3/2 meaning 3 front and 2 surrounds, same with 7.1 showing 3/4 on the display. Tonight I watched Sully in Bluray and it showed ATMOS, so I am guessing the movie was decoded with ATMOS engineering.
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/18/17 11:21 PM

Sorry , sometimes it sounds right in my head but not when other read it. I was hoping you could quantify the improvement the receiver made devoid of the ATMOS upgrade. IE playing back a 7.1 truehd movie without using any of the ATMOS intervention. Truehd is channel based while ATMOS is object based so it is my understanding that you can reauthor the audio with the receiver to take advantage of ATMOS even if the sound track is not ATMOS. Also do you feel you lost anything by going with M22's over the QS8's when watching standard dolby sound tracks.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/19/17 12:16 AM

I follow what you are saying now... I am not sure there is a way to turn ATMOS off/on but can look around in the settings. I can turn ARC off/on to compare room correction or not... I could turn off my ceiling speakers to see what that does. I will try to poke around the next few days...
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/19/17 12:24 AM

So your saying that ATMOS is automatically applied even if the source material is not ATMOS enabled?
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/19/17 06:40 AM

I don't think that you are understanding the term ATMOS. Think of it like a newer version of Dolby Digital.

My first HT reciever did dolby surround. Then I got an upgrade to Dolby Pro Logic. This went from 3 channel to 4 channel. Two totally different technologies, but based on a method of taking a 2 channel signal and figuring out how to fool our ears and brain into thinking we are getting 4 channels of sound. we now have Pro Logic II, IIx and IIz that take the 2 channel for 5, 7 and 9 channels.

Fast forward to the Dolby Digital era. There was a quantum jump from 2 discreet channel recording to now going digital and giving 5 + .1 low frequency sub. The development continued to give us DD EX 6.1 (5.1 discrete + matrix center rear sound using technology similar to Dolby Pro Logic). those were replaced by Dolby TrueHD that gave us 7.1 discreet channels.

ATMOS fits to the side of TrueHD. To quote from Wikipedia:

Quote:
Because of limited bandwidth and lack of processing power, Atmos in home theaters is not rendered the same way as in cinemas. A spatially-coded substream is added to Dolby TrueHD or Dolby Digital Plus. This substream only represents an abbreviated representation of the object-based mix. This substream does not include all 128 discrete objects separated. This is not a matrix-encoded channel, but a spatially-encoded digital channel. Atmos in home theaters can support 24.1.10 channels, and uses the spatially-encoded object audio substream to mix the audio presentation to match the installed speaker configuration. The spatial audio coding tool is applied to the cinematic object audio mix when filmmakers remix and render the TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus soundtracks with Dolby Media Producer.


So an ATMOS receiver if given a non ATMOS track, it won't be doing anything to convert it to digital objects or anything funky like that.

What each receiver/pre-amp company does it up to them. They have the ability to do the Dolby Pro Logic like matrix conversion to drive all the speakers that are hooked up to their device. For example, Yamaha has their own Matrix 11,1 implementation that is not connected at all to Atmos. They use height speaker instead of overhead. Pioneer have their own maxtrix 7.1.4 that takes one side sound and matrix it with the other side to figure out what it thinks is overhead.

It is NOT ATMOS. It just sounds better to your ears as it makes sounds come from more directions like real life. It is like how Pro Logic sounded better than simple Dolby Suround.

All that said, a well setup 7.1 with speakers like the QS(x) speakers will send as much sound up and around to give the same effect as an GOOD install of a Matrix processed with 7.1.4 speakers. The QS speakers are effectively doing what the matrix sound process is doing in the receiver. Again, THIS IS NOT ATMOS.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/19/17 07:14 AM

Originally Posted By SirQuack

I was thinking about getting some cheaper XLR Balanced interconnects since my AVM60 and 7700 amp have that option. The A500 just has unbalanced which will be fine. Shopping around for those now. I've read good things about GLS Audio.


Randy, I bought several GLS Audio XLR cables off Amazon based on the reviews there. I haven't used them yet, but they appear to be very good quality for the price...much better than I expected.
Posted by: brendo

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/19/17 01:29 PM

Another good option for the XLR cables is any guitar music shop E.G. Tom Lee or a Long and McQuade if you have one local they usually have them for less than 10 or 15 with a pro option.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 02/20/17 08:38 AM

I looked at the GLS ones but they only offer 6 packs and not individually sold, I needed for 7 channels. I found some on Amazon called Audio 2000s, got them the other day and seem very nicely built and flexible. Working out great...
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/11/17 07:50 PM

Couldn't pass up on Epson's March Madness sale $500 off. Epson 5040UB Projector should arrive Tuesday!
Posted by: taylor34

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/14/17 10:54 PM

Other people asked this question but I don't think it was ever answered really, basically it was:

"Do you feel that moving from QS8's to M22's was a good upgrade?"

I wonder the same thing. I bought qs8's for my 7.1 setup, but with atmos they suggest more m22 type speakers. So are the m22's better for atmos but worse for normal 7.1? Like I don't really want to replace qs8's to sound better 1/2 the time but worse the other 1/2. Thanks
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/14/17 11:11 PM

Originally Posted By SirQuack
Couldn't pass up on Epson's March Madness sale $500 off. Epson 5040UB Projector should arrive Tuesday!



What did that machine set you back in the USofA. Its 5g on sale up here cry
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/14/17 11:39 PM

$2499 free 2 day shipping and no tax, got from Projector People, price through end of this month. Also included a free mount a $59 value.

Taylor, I loved my Qs8s all the years I had them. I had them mounted up high near the ceiling but pointed downward. They worked awesome for "surround" duty. For Atmost setup your 7.x speakers generally need to be lower about ear level, and Dolby does recommend bookshelf type direct radiating speakers, not surrounds of quadpolar design like the Q's.

I'm sure they would still work a provide a cool experience but not give you the same "object" type experience Atoms gives you. I already had a pair of onwall 22's so just needed to order another pair. I do miss my Q's though. smile

I will say after adding the 4 ceiling M3's and getting everything calibrated, it has never sounded so good. Even non Atmos movies sound great. I would say the biggest improvement I have seen is my VP180 Center sounds SOOOO much better and dialog is so clear. Also the subs sound a lot better than with my Denon and Audyssey calibration.
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/15/17 09:25 PM

Actually its on for 3996.00 right now which is pretty close factoring in currency difference and tax and freight and duty which there will be since its not made in the USA. Let us know how it looks when your up and running, i have heard great things.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/16/17 02:54 PM

Initial opinion is Wow, Holy Cow, Shazaam etc.. smile Combined with my new Atmos environment I think I am going to start sleeping down there.
Posted by: mikecoscia

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/16/17 05:33 PM

Originally Posted By SirQuack
$2499 free 2 day shipping and no tax, got from Projector People, price through end of this month. Also included a free mount a $59 value.

Taylor, I loved my Qs8s all the years I had them. I had them mounted up high near the ceiling but pointed downward. They worked awesome for "surround" duty. For Atmost setup your 7.x speakers generally need to be lower about ear level, and Dolby does recommend bookshelf type direct radiating speakers, not surrounds of quadpolar design like the Q's.

I'm sure they would still work a provide a cool experience but not give you the same "object" type experience Atoms gives you. I already had a pair of onwall 22's so just needed to order another pair. I do miss my Q's though. smile

I will say after adding the 4 ceiling M3's and getting everything calibrated, it has never sounded so good. Even non Atmos movies sound great. I would say the biggest improvement I have seen is my VP180 Center sounds SOOOO much better and dialog is so clear. Also the subs sound a lot better than with my Denon and Audyssey calibration.



Damn it, I was totally not ready to buy a projector after dropping 5k on speakers. I was hoping to do it in a month or two. But $500 off is too good to pass up. I'll have to order it before the end of the month. Have you ever ordered from projector people before?
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/16/17 10:31 PM

@SirQuack What was your previous projector.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/17/17 09:34 AM

Mike this is my first time from Projector People, but I think they are well respected and have been around for many years. Visual Apex, Amazon, and others offer it as well. I will say this thing is HUGE, looks like a mini space craft.

Socket my previous projector was the Sanyo Z2 720p which I plan to use for camping or out in the back patio area. smile
Posted by: bridgman

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/17/17 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By SirQuack
Socket my previous projector was the Sanyo Z2 720p which I plan to use for camping or out in the back patio area.

Congrats on the new projector. I guess that leaves me as the last person on the forum still running a Sanyo 720p.

The way things are going it may end up being my "forever projector" - the thermal cutout tripped during a power outage and I initially thought it was the bulb and bought a replacement. I'm not getting rid of the projector until I use up that second bulb, but after 10 years the original is still running fine.
Posted by: mikecoscia

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/17/17 03:09 PM

Originally Posted By SirQuack
Mike this is my first time from Projector People, but I think they are well respected and have been around for many years. Visual Apex, Amazon, and others offer it as well. I will say this thing is HUGE, looks like a mini space craft.

Socket my previous projector was the Sanyo Z2 720p which I plan to use for camping or out in the back patio area. smile


Oh good, I will be ordering it form them as they included the free mount. I just got to make sure everything works before the 30 day exchange period expires. I won't be finished with my basement for at least another two months, so it may sit in the box for awhile. Guess I can always hook it up to my living room receiver really quick to test it out.
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/17/17 05:13 PM

Mike i see alot of unfinished theaters online when guys hook up the projector as a test. Just sayin LOL
Posted by: mikecoscia

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/17/17 07:41 PM

Originally Posted By Socketman
Mike i see alot of unfinished theaters online when guys hook up the projector as a test. Just sayin LOL


Lol, I know, I know. For some odd reason though I always have terrible luck with electronics. It tends to make me paranoid...haha.
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/17/17 08:09 PM

You should be good as long as you dont take it into the theater. I would not risk not testing it either . god be with ya
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: My Atmos thread - 03/18/17 12:42 AM

Both Visual Apex and Proj People I think are offering a free mount. They are different manufacuters. Mine is the Crimson JRS I believe...warning these projectors are huge.