Hi all,

I'm a long time Axiom owner. I do read the threads occasionally but generally don't really post. I've been enjoying my speakers Lately I've been thinking of upgrading some of my gear so I thought I'd pop in and get some advice. This may be a bit of a long post to describe my situation.

I currently own dual EP500v3, M22's, VP150, QS4's, all in Russian Maple finish, and a Denon X3400H.

The first item I was thinking of upgrading are my EP500's to the 600's. My main concern is would I hear much of a difference between the EP500v3 to EP600? I'm looking for a bit more oomph and bottom end. The mix is probably 85% movies, 15% music.

Here's the thing, my living/dining room/kitchen are pretty much all open. My living room is about 20x10 and the couch separates the living room from the dining room. My living room is about 10x10. The kitchen sitting at the top of my living room is open via a countertop bar and is about 10x6. 9ft ceilings throughout. Think of a backward looking L shape. Hopefully that gives you an idea of the size.

The other issue is that my L and R speakers have to sit on top of the subs. I have no room on either side for anything else, just about 6-8 inches of space right now on the sides of my subs. I definitely not interested in onwall. Would the M22's now be to high sitting on the subs? The EP600 is 33.5inches high and the M22 is 20inch. That sets the tweeters to about 51 inches in height considering they sit about 2 inches below the cabinet. Sitting on my couch my ears are at a height of 41 inches. Do I just invert the speakers or do I move to M3's? Would I be happy with the M3's?

I'll also be getting the VP160 although I hate the size of it and those ports. I have to admit I find it ugly. If the ports where on the back it would be so much better.

Oh I should add I'll probably be getting all of the speakers in the Walnut wood.

So that's where I am now. Looking at advice from the experts. All feedback welcome.

The 600v4 will give you more low end extension which is very valuable since your set-up is mostly for movie watching. If you want more oomph, ask Ian if he can re-purpose your 600v4 infrasonic switch to Gut punch/Nad tickler. Gut punch mode will give you 6 dB of boost between 55Hz and 80Hz. You can read more about this right here: https://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php/topics/428987/1

Your ears would be 6 degrees off axis if your speakers sat on top of the 600v4. I bet you wouldn't even notice a difference.

The 160v4 is amazing. Get it! You'll love it. I was so glad to move away from the VP150v2; what a difference! I love the fact the ports are on the front because they play better that way with the wall behind them. My 160v4 is naked because I like looking at the white drivers and ports. BTW, the dust caps on the v4 are aluminum. My friends like to gently stroke those rigid caps with their fingers every time they come over. While you might find this a bit weird, I strongly suggest not stroking them because you might get addicted like my friends have. I for one refuse to stroke them. Lacie, one of my female friends, wanted to tongue one of them and that's where I drew the line!

Don't do M3s. I'd suggest trading in the M22s for M5HPv4 if you can swing it. If you buy the sub, VP160 and do a trade on the M22s for M5HPv4, I am sure Axiom can work out a good deal for you.

As for the QS4s, if they are working out for you, great! But since you are spending 85% of your time watching movies, think long and hard about trading them in for QS10HPs.

Definitely get the VP160 I've had mine for a couple years totally awesome unit. With the 600 it's possible the M22 are sufficient as the 600 will do it's job beyond well. though for the size of your room you may want to take advantage your room boundaries that's quite a bit of space to pressurize.

The 160 will also really help with low end, running mine through an Axiom ADA1250 set to 40Hz. Man can it thump with ease.

The QS10's are out of the question, too large. I do think I an squeeze in the 8's though. I may have to splice some speaker wire though for one of the speakers. I thought about that and could use one of my QS4's as a back center speaker. I have room in one spot but it would be a very long cable run probably about 30ft at least.

I'm wondering as well whether or not I would need the 5HP's rather than the 22's. Other than playing really loud which I don't do, I do play my movies loud but not insanely loud as I'm in a condo, what would be the benefit if I cross at 80?

The M5HPs can play louder and lower with less distortion compared to the M22 but that's not the only reason I am suggesting them. They will image and sound better than the M22s. Remember they have a dedicated mid-range and a v4 tweeter which is far better than a v2 or v3 tweeter. The cross-over is also better because they were designed to a more mature family of curves compared to the M22.

As for the bass, the M5HPs have the high powered woofer. Even if you cross at 80, there is significant content below 80 that is sent to your speakers. This content is less distorted with the M5HP. Less distortion will make your system sound better.

Check out this review of the M5HP. Note the reviewer says they are comparable to a $3500 floor-standing Revel. Craigsub says that a pair of M5HPs with an EP800v4 is better than the $10,000 speakers you'll find in showrooms. I trust his judgment.

https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/1130-axiom-audio-m5hp-loudspeakers

I thought about an ep800 and two bookshelves but the problem is I would have to remove a corner bookshelf and put the EP800 in a corner which I know would be a terrible idea.

I know Axiom is offering the possibility of winning a free purchase until mid March. I'd buy now but I need to get some wood samples. I wish they have much larger higher quality photos of the custom wood finishes.

You don't need an EP800 unless you want effects down to 10 Hz. The 600v4 will be just great.

Good call on not doing corner bookshelves.

The corner more depends on you. It'll emphasize the bass though for effects in a whole house or multiple rooms locations combined to one. Sometimes a plus.

The 10 is probably considerably bigger than the QS4 though not much over the QS8. Being a Kickstarter purchaser of the QS10 they're wonderful. highly recommend and I use mine for ear level side in 5.2.2.

Does anyone know if the speakers in the thread have a stain on them or are they just walnut natural? That's exactly what I'm looking for color wise.

https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/1130-axiom-audio-m5hp-loudspeakers.

Based on what is written in the article - it mentions Satin Walnut finish, and looking at the finish options of the 5HP webpage, it appears to be real wood.

Here is a link to the attributes https://www.axiomaudio.com/optionswizard/wizard/index/id/930/attribute183/145/attribute184/3/

Click Read Wood from the list, select Walnut, and then select Natural from the Stain choices, then Satin from the Gloss drop down

Note that it does add cost to the speaker

I just wanted to determine if there was a stain that was applied to the walnut finish or if it was natural. When I clicked natural it definitely looks different than the photo in the link. That's why I was unsure.

I think I'll just get the center for now and if I win my purchase (small chance I know), end up getting the 5HP's as well. The 600's will need to wait until July.

I noticed the serial number was listed in a photo. You could capture that number and call Axiom and ask.

They would track details for each product, and could tell you the specifics.

I also just noticed there's a HP version of the 160. I really wonder if I need the HP version or standard? Is there a benefit of crossing over below 80 with the center?

Hi DanielBMe,

The SoundStage M5HP were in natural satin walnut (no stain). If you are crossing your VP160 over to the EP600 you will not require the HP version. The regular VP160 already has two woofers which is loads of power handling when crossed over to a subwoofer.

Thanks Ian,just ordered my VP160 in the walnut natural stain. I'll have to hold off ordering the M5HP a bit as the Walnut stain is pushing it out of my price range for now. One step at a time... someone is going to get a vp150 in Russian Maple and have to wait for the matching M22's lol

I may never win the lottery but we'll see if my number comes up for the promotion so I can get the M5's...I'll hold off rewatching Lawrence of Arabia just a tad longer

You're gonna love the 160v4 and the v4 sub when you get it.

Yeah, it's going to be a long wait. I debated getting a vp150 in walnut so I could also get the M5's at the same time but in the end decided if I'm going to upgrade, then I want something that will not only sound fantastic but look it as well. I"m still somewhat frightened by the size of the 160 but we'll see.

I can only imagine what the EP600's will look like in the walnut once I order those

Wait...dude! Are you getting multiple 600s? Why? A single 600 is good for 7,500 cu. ft. Spend the money on M5HPs and QS10HPs instead.

Yeah dual 600's. I have dual 500's now and I only have room for the speakers to sit on the subs. So I can't just get one. No matter what I get I have to get two. That was my dilemma. I would get the new EP500's but I have a feeling I am going to lose some oomph with them compared to the 500v3 due to them being sealed.

I'm still going to get the M5's.

Oh right. I forgot you're using the subs as stands.

If oomph is all you are worried about, stick with the 500v4. If you want low end extension to 15 Hz, go with the 600v4. I would bet however you would be just fine with the 500v4 and you'll achieve a good 18 Hz in your room.

A single 500 is adequate for 5,000 cubic feet BTW. If you got stands, you'd save the cost of the extra 500. The 500 doesn't have to be up front. My 800v4 is slightly behind me firing into the diagonal of the room. This allowed me to get the smoothest response.

You're gonna love the sealed 500! You will kick yourself for not getting it sooner.

I still advise buying the center, M5, QS10 and sub on a trade-in deal. You'll save a lot of money. If you can't afford it all at once, maybe Axiom can have you make a few payments. Feed your family canned tuna for a few months. It will be worth it.

I honestly can't fit the subs in any other location. That's the thing, I want oomph and low end extension, hence the dual 600's. I used to have a single 500 but having duals made for a big improvement.

The M5 I'll get for sure. The subs probably around mid July. I may go to the QS8's instead though. But that can change but it may be much much later this year when I get the surrounds.

I'm wondering if I should change from Satin finish to Semi Gloss. I wonder which would look better...I wish there was someone who has seen both.

Things like this are very much a personal preference but I have seen both on lots of different finishes and it would be satin every time for me.

Ian is right, its very personal . I am am all about HG and the way tam talks about his speakers he too is all about the HG. Maybe go to some furniture stores and see which is more appealing. Natural also looks really good with just hand rubbed oil finish.

Yeah, I wish there was a better way to figure out which gloss level to go with. On my last couple of orders I was thinking about getting one in satin and the other in semi-gloss... but when I went to order the second pair I thought I had ordered the first pair in satin, while in fact I ordered both in semi-gloss.

So I'm not much help, other than to point out that the paint aisle in any big box store probably has a bunch of wood samples with different gloss levels.

What I can say is that for knotty pine semi-gloss looks great, while for cherry I'm thinking satin might have been a better match. I was initially thinking that the pine trim in my house was semi-gloss, but looking at it again it is probably satin as well.

Guess I should have checked the old paint can in the basement

Wow, these 160's are really really expensive. Double the price I expected...of course by that I mean my online order seems to have been doubled. When submitting my payment it seemed to have gone through but no order was generated and the screen didn't give me any indication. So I resubmitted the order. Checked my MC and sure enough I apparently ordered two 160's.

Sent an email to Debbie to get this corrected.

My pointing finger does a double twitch every now and then on my left click and that happens to me too,plus i am stupid impatient. I am sure they would have caught it since its unlikely anyone would make 2 seperate orders vs 2 on one order.

It's been take care of. I think Debbie spotted it before I sent the email.

High Gloss makes them stand out in a crowd & is easily the most classy of all of the finishes - IMO.

Be prepared to wait a couple of months for them to be properly finished & cured before they are shipped...

TAM

I built a teak shelf unit in grade 10 woodwork, i sanded it with lemon oil till it shone and it sill looks good 40 yrs later. I like all finish's with wood but gloss is still the most eye catching.

Couple of months? I hope not. I think the page indicates 20 days..

I went for the satin. I was leaning towards the gloss but since my place has a whole lot of light during the day I figured they might be blinding so went with the satin.

Trust me - a couple of months for HG. I've been through it 3 times...

TAM

I wonder what they use for their high gloss finish. I use automotive poly urethane. Its set up and hard and ready to go in an hour. On a hot day which we dont many of here , i can spray and then wetsand and polish within a couple of hours. Its called spot panel clear and it sets up for a respray in 15 mins, so far not one issue using it in 5 yrs.

I understand that it takes about a dozen coats that requires polishing between each coat after curing time...

TAM

Well since I'm getting the satin, I don't have to worry about that and so will get them sooner

I keep saying "them" forgetting that I only bought the VP160 for now and the M5's will come later.

They should setup a GoPro and make a timelapse of the entire process of making a custom wood speaker from start to end.

Sounds like they may be using lacquer if they are going to that extent. Not sure why they would though since there has been so many advancements in clear coat finishes. I put my hot coffee on the speaker ,dish's etc never an issue or worry since it can take everything a car takes on a daily basis like bird crap etc. lots of that in Victoria with those flying garbage cans you call seagulls.

It certainly is not my area of expertise. Whatever the wait, it is worth it in the end.

You haven't lived until a Great Blue Heron on final approach lets fly over your car, ha!

TAM

Hopefully you haven't had that Tam. Scary Highway and clean up.
They're huge!!!

Here on the mainland I have a family of Herons, Ducks Etc. In a stream near by. They see me so often I can sit and talk to them.
Any one else they bolt. Over the last few years Salmon have returned to spawn in the streams. So we are getting more large birds returning.

I've been meaning to ask, what's the diff between the inverted and non inverted speaker? Is it just how the Axiom labels look? I have my speaker sitting on the flat side with the slop on top. Should I have selected inverted?

I have another question. It didn't occur to me earlier but I noticed that there are feet on the VP160. My 150 doesn't have any. I use those little rubber domes on the bottom to protect my furniture. My concern is the listed height of the VP160. Is that with the feet or without? If the height is without and the feet add an extra .5inch I may be screwed as the speaker would go into my wall mounted tv...

Would it be possible to not use the feet and instead use the rubber dome thingies?

The foot pads (very nice ones actually) are easily removable.

In my system my VP160 is on a glass shelf below the TV slightly below my ears plus my whole HT stand leans slightly forward due to the 160's weight. I removed the rear pads & just use the fronts giving a slight upward tilt - hardly noticeable visually...

TAM

Great Thanks!

Woohooo, my VP160 shipped!

You'll love it.

Got my new VP160. Wow it is really really MASSIVE. Here's pic of the diff between the 150 and 160.

While the 160 looks fantastic quality wise and the Walnut real wood, I personally do think it's overbearing sitting there in my living room. It tlooks like someone threw a large suitcase on my stand. In the middle of a living room in a condo, it just really is too big. I wish there was a middle ground between the 150 and 160..

I'll be hooking it and listening to it later tonight.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tyAcn10vZlQh8MsJCbqy4Bqn8HvAyEev/view?usp=sharing

That looks awesome! It looks huge under my 55" monitor as well but I am in a very large room and not a condo. There is no middle ground, just great sound. I'd take that 150 and turn it into a planter.

How does one actually remove the feet? I unscrewed the feet but there's another part sticking out and not sure how to remove it? I have one of those larger Ikea type thingies..do I just unscrew the middle part?

I also noticed there are 4 other screws in the middle of the speaker. Can I remove those to make the speaker flush on the bottom?

Yeah, that is something that concerns me. While it would not be out of place - I have a projector with 110" image size - i think the 180 with the lower profile and longer width might look better.

Anyway, neither is in my immediate plans, so.... LOL

The 4 bolts in the middle are for installing the Axiom stand.

The feet decouple the speaker from the mounting surface. Removing them may cause your stand to resonate.

There appears to be adequate room below your monitor. The bottom of my monitor is 1/8" away from the top of the 160.

This is why i built my own. I measured and measured and i just could not fit either on my stand which i had just bought. the 160 tooo tall and the 180 tooo long but mine is jussssssst right i used the 160 speaker layout with the 180 low and long design. Once you get used to it you wont notice it, the brain will learn to block it out and you wont know its there.Plus the size is more than worth it as you will see once your start using it.

Here are a few more photos of the speaker. It really is quite beautiful. I just reran my Denon Audyssey so will watch a movie later tonight.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VUTC9YyUHlC1_Yrm-aLjkgjO9011md8_/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DSnzm_CWgIrOOrPXvhGQ1VOUP7TaeqS9/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11c8k5SoH1n-x7B10YVpAxIIxHTtAm-dK/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16_dYVeGVmCx7S6C60dXjQ1RoxMzs1QcH/view?usp=sharing

Sure beats my black vinyl. I like it naked.

Looks great.
luckily you have some room above for your remote sensor.
Mine is on a sanus stand\T.V. mount that barely has about 1\4 inch of play. Need to hold the remote higher for T.V. sensor use.

With the amount of details from movies and surround tracks I think you'll be happy with such a great performer.

I was going to remove the feet but I think I'll leave them on for now. I much prefer it sitting on the little rubber domes that came with the 150. As it is now, just more dust collects underneath.

Sitting on the couch looking straight at the tv, I have about an inch between the speaker and tv.

The dust underneath is a good thing because it acts as a dielectric which increases the parallel parasitic capacitance between the tweeter and ground and makes the highs sound smoother. I gather up all my house dust and stick it under my 160.

Ha

It's almost like all the dust jumps under mine. Swiffer at least once a week.

Assortments of the rubber domes are pretty easy to find. The feet that it comes with are pretty beefy and effective with decoupling.

That is so right.

Looks good. Unfortunately it seems that with every passing year the center channel gets asked to do more of the work, so it's pretty rare to see center speakers that are both small and really good.

The vertically stacked midrange & tweeter of the VP160 still seems to be the most effective layout, but there's no way to make that sucker small.

I have kinda shifted to a "breakfast is the most important meal of the day" kind of thinking, ie that the center channel should not only be comparable to the mains but arguably even beefier since it sometimes has to do as much work as both mains.

Of course that may just be how I justify the size of my VP180

In looking at the tweeter, bottom woofer and the rounded edge of the speaker, I suspect they could have cut off about 2 inches off the height especially if the bottom woofer was cut straight across like the top of the tweeter.

One item I would have preferred is maybe a choice to have the ports in the back to give the speaker a cleaner look.

I'm slowly getting used to the size. I rewatched Thor Ragabunchoflaughs last night and then Dunkirk. Unfortunately Dunkirk barely had any dialogue.

The speaker is definitely better but still not sure if it's size more than makes up for the 150. I'll have to give it a few weeks of watching some movies to be sure.

Ports in the back would have wreaked havoc with boundaries like a wall or a cabinet.

Comparing the 150v2 against the 160v4 is like comparing lemons against watermelons. I don't know about the 150v4.

Have you calibrated with XT32?

Yup, first thing I did is to rerun the Audyssey on my Denon x3400.

My buddies and I hear a stark difference between my 160v4 and 150v2 - on and off axis.

BTW, I don't know about you but when I had the 150v2, I had to bump up the center channel gain by about 3 dB. Often that wasn't enough so I had to push it to 5 or 6. Even with that, the vocals weren't right. With the 160v4, I haven't touched the gain since it was auto-calibrated last December when I received it.

And my guests can sit 45 degrees off-axis at 16 feet away with no ill effect.

Mine is crossed over at 80Hz but no matter where I cross over it sounds great. Even if I don't cross it over it sounds great. As a matter of fact, I can cross my entire system over to 200Hz which is the maximum with my Onk, and it still sounds great with the 800v4. I never expected that!

Photos here. The 800 is aligned with the diagonal of the room for the most linear possible response. The 160 is elevated to be aligned with the M80 tweeters.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1_8XhAsLWR6qnaXvft1Nt-1dxpKlF5ZlI

I'd show the signatures to.
Looks great.
Just curious, whats gained by spining a(omnidirectional) sub?

Whoa! Blair lives!

Do you mean what is the advantage of placing an (omni-directional) sub so that the drivers fire into the diagonal of the room?

My twin EP800s fire diagonally across my room as well from where my HT gear is located because my space is oddly shaped.

Works well & looks good too, IMO...

TAM

My first thought when I read this was:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_speaker

When doing a trade in aren't Axiom supposed to include a return shipping label. I'm pretty sure I was told by Debbie it would be included. I didn't get one and I emailed her 3 times since and no response.

I guess I'll have to call....

That is interesting...
Might spin a sub or two see what happens.
Turned my avr so setting to DTS last night...I love bass but I had to turn it back to Dolby, for now.

Yes, please explain.

My new M22V4s in HG Rosewood arrived all OK. It's nice to have them back in the mix.

I fired up my Blu Ray of Clapton's 'Slowhand at 70 at Royal Albert Hall' just to make sure that they worked. Then they had a good run with the 'Guardians of the Galaxy' Blu Ray. They are as wonderful as ever when paired up the VP160 & twin EP800s.

Many thanks to Ian, Deb & Jamie (who actually crafted the finishing) for assisting me through this warranty process - it was quite painless. They are a work of art...

TAM