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Posted By: TXTX In cieling challenges - 05/01/18 08:24 PM
So I currently have an an Axiom heavy 5.1 system (don’t remember the model numbers as I bought everything in 2007 but was the largest and most current Axiom floor and on wall surrounds at the time). The only non-Axiom I have is an SVS cylindrical sub that I have had for even longer but still performs quite well.

Fast forward to now and I am buying a house that is currently under construction. Given the design of the house, I need to abandon my floor speakers and will have to compromise for an all in cieling or wall setup. No dedicated theater room and will have a large open living room. The room is roughly 18 x 18 with 11” ceilings and is open on two sides (kitchen to rear and open dining to right). The main seating area will be roughly center front to back but a couple of feet to the right. The tv position will be on the wall but to the far left. The front wall has a 9 foot wide floor to cieling fireplace and chimney that come out from the wall 2” on the right and an equal size space on the left where the tv will be mounted. The cieling will be wired for 5 channels.

My concerns are that I like it loud on occasion and am skeptical that in cieling speakers in a fairly large space can keep up. I’m also skeptical about having an in cieling center channel that will be ~6 feet offset from the tv. One thing I considered was an in wall center under the TV and then 4 in cieling channels. Does anyone have any thoughts on this??
Posted By: brendo Re: In cieling challenges - 05/01/18 09:41 PM
I my self have M80s in an all Axiom system similar size room 19x21x7.

I have everything along the longer of my walls, on the left portion is open to equal size kitchen on one side, bathroom and bedrooms opposite.

In doing so I find it helps, so as not to need to pressurize the rest of my suite or lose sound to the other rooms. As it would with entertainment center facing them.

Just try to avoid losing sound to other rooms or close doors if behind you when listening.
Being the on and in walls have less cabinet you may notice you need more bass, that a cabinet produces. Although if you currently find your SVS sufficient possibly not
Posted By: bridgman Re: In cieling challenges - 05/02/18 01:49 AM
LOL - the last thread before yours was this one:

High power in-ceiling speakers

If you bought in 2007 then I imagine you would have M80 mains, VP150 center, not sure about surrounds.

We probably have the same sub smile

I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing the relationship between TV and seating area, since one is off to the left and the other is a bit off to the right. Do you see the TV being in the corner and angled towards the seating area, or just "look left a bit" ?

Since the house is under construction it would probably be pretty easy to include a bit of extra metal/masonry in the fireplace to make sure that hot air was far enough out from the wall to let you center the TV on the chimney if that is not already planned. I'll throw in a plug for a Rumford fireplace while I'm at it but I imagine you have already been through that discussion.

I have two concerns with doing everything in-ceiling:

- first is that if the ceiling is 11' up then you're going to have trouble getting any kind of "loud on occasion" without putting something more like M60 size or larger up there, although M5HP's are surprisingly good if you only need loud and not LOUD.

- second is that the speakers are all going to be pretty close together from an angular POV so it's going to be tough to get the kind of imaging that you are used to

Having a wall-mounted center channel under the TV would make a big difference, or wall-mounted mains would probably do the job as well.

When you are playing loud, is it typically movies (where the center channel carries a lot of the content) or music (where the mains do most of the work) ? That (and location of TV) will probably be the determining factor re: whether you should go with on-wall center, mains or both.

Just curious, what is the major issue with keeping the floorstanding mains ? At first glance and 18x18 room seems sufficiently large to keep them out of the way.

Anyways, sounds like a fun project.
Posted By: Gr8_White_North Re: In cieling challenges - 05/02/18 02:18 AM
My condolences ,she must be an amazing woman.
Posted By: bridgman Re: In cieling challenges - 05/02/18 02:52 AM
Originally Posted By bridgman
Just curious, what is the major issue with keeping the floorstanding mains ?

Originally Posted By Gr8_White_North
My condolences ,she must be an amazing woman.

Oh right, hadn't thought about that smile
Posted By: Nachosgrande Re: In cieling challenges - 05/03/18 03:42 AM
Your speakers are fine, change the house that is being built!
Or add a bonus media room... wink
Posted By: TDIPablo Re: In cieling challenges - 05/03/18 06:13 PM
Axiom's new line of on-wall speakers are awesome. I currently have the M22OW(x2) and VP150OW and love them. Since I purchased them, Axiom now offers their full line including M80OW that have me positively drooling but I don't have the room for them. I am, however, upgrading to the VP180OW.

I tried listening to many on-wall offerings from Totem, PSB, Logan Martin, Paradigm. Only Totem was satisfying but the $ for just one Tribe 1 was almost the same for a complete 5.1 system from Axiom! One Tribe 5 (equivalent to an M80OW?) is almost $3200! $6400 for a pair!

I liked Totem over the other offerings as it was the only speaker that offered satisfying low end bass (even without a sub). The reason for this, they were ported. I decided to give Axiom a try because 1) the price, and 2) there were also ported. Glad I did!
Posted By: Ian Re: In cieling challenges - 05/03/18 09:59 PM
There may be an option for the In-cabinet M80s and VP180 in your new living room. We can make them shallow enough to be used as in wall speakers.
Posted By: TDIPablo Re: In cieling challenges - 05/04/18 12:36 PM
The problem with in-wall speakers is that you need to be 98% sure that's where you want them for the next 10+ years. I really like the flexibility on-wall offers and the much smaller footprint of moving a simple speaker wall plate if I ever choose to relocate them (drywall patching a .5" hole is much easier than a 1'x3' hole!).

I've seen major living room installations with in-ceiling flr and rlr speaker configurations with a true center channel and though adequate for everyday TV watching, I think, if you care about music and movies, you will be disappointed with an all in-ceiling installation.

Don't get me wrong, I have some fantastic in-ceilings in my kitchen and dining room and they play really loud (powered by a Sonos Connect:Amp) but it's obvious the music is coming from above and not truly stereo even if I stand/sit directly between them as the angles are too harsh.

If you can swing it, I think you would be happier with an on-wall lcr and go in-ceiling with your rears and surround and height(?) for ATMOS smile
Posted By: bridgman Re: In cieling challenges - 05/04/18 05:06 PM
Agreed - if you can swing some on-walls or in-cabinets that would be ideal.

The product pages show the on-walls in Boston Cherry on a white background so they look a bit "big and chunky" but with the right colour choice they do a pretty good job of disappearing.

Best of all - VP160/VP180 are already available.
Posted By: TDIPablo Re: In cieling challenges - 05/04/18 05:24 PM
Originally Posted By bridgman

The product pages show the on-walls in Boston Cherry on a white background so they look a bit "big and chunky" but with the right colour choice they do a pretty good job of disappearing.

Could also replace the cloth cover to your own desired piece of art...
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