I'm sure there is several threads on this and maybe someone can point me to them.

Why are the 1100 actives so much more money and why aren't smaller versions available? 660 actives?

Are actives for the guys that have more money than the average bear?

The actives compete with speakers eight times their price.

Each set of drivers (5 sets total) is driven by its own DSP and amplifier channel. A 660 would require the same number of channels as an 1100. Not much cost saving there.

Actives are for folks who want it LOUD and accurate.You'd want them for parties, if you sit 18 feet away or more or because you want the most accurate presentation at any volume level.

I summarized my thoughts with this review:

The M5s, M100s and active LFR1100s are skillfully-crafted, high fidelity sonic holography engines that carve out a 3D space and sculpt acoustic images within. The active LFR1100s are considerably more refined than the passives and offer greater stage width and depth (right out my bow window), improved image placement precision, higher image spatial and acoustic resolution including more "black space" between the images, improved quantity and quality of bass and mids which must be heard to be believed (they sound better than my passive system with three Axiom sealed subs), improved macro and micro dynamics and an enhanced ability to acoustically disappear particularly with high quality recordings. The active LFR1100s add up to a more emotionally satisfying experience than passives at not only high SPLs but also lower SPLs where passives only start to perform. It really is nearly impossible to go back to traditional speakers after listening to the active omnis. The technical differences between the passives and active omnis are transparently revealed in the frequency response curves on Axiom's product pages. As one moves up the line of products, the listening window and sound power curves extend further across the audible spectrum, are more linear, and closer aligned. The active LFR1100s offer a textbook example of aligned listening window and sound power curves that decline at 3dB per decade and are free of acoustic resonances. Such a speaker response is impossible to realize with the inherent limitations of passive cross-overs used in traditional speakers. Use of digital filters enables bespoke roll-offs to optimize driver integration and linearize mid-band response. Unlike traditional passive speakers, the filters are located upstream of the amplifier resulting in higher speaker sensitivity, improved stability in the response at higher power levels, lower thermal noise and improved control of the drivers. The result of this implementation is a speaker system that "plugs into a room and plays" with no EQ required and effortlessly renders the performance the sound engineer intended.

It's probably a wash to a couple of hundred dollars difference between the build cost of a LFR1100 active and a LFR1100 passive. What your paying for is:

1) the time and expense to develop it and
2) the market it is trying to competing in (as Mojo mentioned) the actives are actually a value play in the high end market. It's a market catering to the few who are willing to spend a lot of money.

I just receive a pair of Actives which were damaged in transit. So I'll have to exchange them. In the mean time, since the damage is only cosmetic, I'm giving them a listen. So far, I'm fairly impressed with what I've gotten. Are they worth a 50% premium over the passives (not to mention the amp channels)? Since I've never heard the passives I can't say.

Now, people I trust tell me the passives are extremely good and there is only so much room to do better than extremely good ... I expect most of the gain to be in enlarging the sweet spot.

I can tell you that if I had to choose between passives with 4 channels of great amps or actives with 10 channels of weak amps ... I'd go passive ... the constant and dynamic power makes a very big difference.

As for the speakers themselves, the actives are probably a bit cheaper to build because they lack the passive cross-overs.

The passives have a single DSP box with 4 DSP cards. The actives have dual DSP boxes with 7 cards each for a total of 14 cards - 10 cards more. There's your price difference.

The M100v4 were far better than my M80v2 in all respects. More and tighter bass, mid-bass slam that my M80v2 lacked, better mids and highs, better soundstage and imaging - and this was at all volume levels. They sounded more like the real thing. However, they still needed equalization. And in my living room, the bass was unbearable and I couldn't manage it with just a bass control. Port plugs actually destroyed the sound. I fully expect you'd have the same problem but with your Yammie, you could equalize them.

Enter the actives and all the good in the M100 became even better with no drawbacks and no need for EQ in any of my rooms. And they go louder and cleaner.

But how could anyone appreciate the actives unless they've heard the lower models? This is why I recommend newbies start more humble (not saying you are a newbie). They'll better appreciate future upgrades.

Keep in mind no matter how good the actives were in my living room, the M2OW integrate even better. No the M2OW are not more accurate than the actives but the actives got in the way of themselves and that affected soundstage width. Width and depth are very important to me.

Your right — two DSP boxes. Seven in each sounds like a lot of DSPs are you sure ...
in any case need to add that cost in.

I'm quite sure there's 7.

5 for the speaker and 2 for the sub out.

I think there are separate ADCs as well. The ADCs aren't integrated into the DSPs.

BTW Rich, you have to experiment with placement in your room. Placement makes a big difference in spatial resolution. I hear the same images from my M2OW as the actives but the images with the actives are crystal clear. That clarity, while very cool, fatigues me because my brain forces me to listen analytically. Not so with the M2 bookshelf or on-wall. I can listen to them all day.

Movies are an entirely different experience with the actives compared to any passive I've heard. Worth the price for movie lovers. Those who've watched movies at my place, and know nothing about speakers or sound, commented they've never heard anything like it in any theater. The subs sure help in that experience but the actives render clear, large and dynamic images across an expansive soundstage like no passive I've heard can. Having a large room certainly helps with that effect.

I'll also say that no one here should feel like they're missing out from owning any passive v4. The M2 and M50 are at the top of my passive list. They both integrate well into any room, are very linear across the entire audio band and are really nice to listen to.

Rebuix asked for my initial impression ... guess I should share it ...

Was listening to them today ... playing with placement and the DSP settings to dial in the image and seeing if I could widen the sweet spot. It's one of those things where you get a great image and then lose it as you play.

Anyway, I'm impressed so far ... the clarity is amazing. I've never heard singers and instruments so there. This is partially because I'm driving them with a pair of ADA1500-5 (one for each speaker) and partially because the speaker is reproducing what it's given so cleanly. These guys go pretty low ... they just don't need a sub for most music (maybe low organ but I haven't tried that yet) ... the Trinity sessions was reproduced with out a flaw ... from her vocals to the stand up bass ... every instrument was clear as day and placed where the recording engineer put them.

I am really taken with the imaging ... for example on Pink Floyd's Dark side of the Moon I could place voices/sounds from directly in front (0 deg) to about 75-80 deg to either side (the speakers are at 30 degs on either side from center). Poorer recordings which sounded fine before now really show their flaws ... for example some instruments sound unnaturally wide ... I know it's the recording since well recorded stuff was reproducing with pin-point accuracy and realism.

I haven't yet gotten the sweet spot to work more then a few seats wide yet ... need to play more.
I also found that I don't get as good results standing as sitting. That maybe because I'm listening in a very live room with nothing on the walls, ceiling or floor. Currently these are setup on the long wall about 11 to 12' apart in a room that's 21' by 16' (I think). Most setups are on the short wall ... I'll try that next after doing a few more tests relating more to surrounds then the actives ...

So, after a few hours of evaluation ... I can say I'm happy I purchased them ...

Hope that helps.

The pic below is a bit distorted because I had to take it as a pano and didn't bother to correct it.

My comments in the previous post are running the actives alone ... ie. subs off. The surrounds are not connected yet. I'll post more of my experience over time.

Rereading the review above I said Trinity Sessions when I meant Holy Cole - Temptation
Now it probably makes sense ..

Before you move them to the short wall, try pulling them further away from the front wall.

I find I don't need a center for MLP and one seat to either side. They sound far better than any center and the 160v4 was darned good.

Mine are 12' apart on a 21' front wall. I sit 14' away.

We are indeed fortunate to be living at the time of Ian and Andrew.

Crurious to hear about your short wall.

What wood are the two 600s on the right? They look different than the one on the left.

Rich, turn it up loud and listen to this if you can cast it on your system:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?index=11&v=MIKSQT-oXfc&list=RDQnuzwex55eI

Poor Michael. He's now reading all this good stuff about the actives and he's gonna change his Axiom order for actives and rotate his room 90 degrees while his missus is out. When she finds out, she'll thigh-lock him until his left 'nad bursts. The actives are worth a missing 'nad.

ok, well... Rich, I assume that's your name. First off, we need to discuss what it's like living in a box. lol, I guess if you have a set of axioms... no matter where you live, you'll be set.

Thanks for the review. I'm going to read it several more times! It's great to hear your perspective.

there are only two EP600s in that picture ... the other one sitting on a box is an M5. All in natural walnut.

That natural walnut sure looks different than mine. Maybe it's the lighting in the room that makes it appear different.

When you set up the M5s, listen to them with your ears 6" above the tweeters. Let's see if you hear what I hear.

It's interesting what you say about pin-point accuracy vs. unnaturally wide instruments. It really depends on the acoustics of the venue, number of microphones and how they were mixed.

The video I posted of the Qatar Philharmonic Orchestra playing Peter Gunn for example, was recorded in an acoustically live venue. The instruments sound very large as a result. I recall only three microphones. One was in the center where the drummer and tuba player were seated, another on the right where brass instruments were lined up behind it and the other similarly on the left. The result was some interesting acoustics. The drums fill up a spot right of center, the tuba sounds like its coming from center but diffuses across the front somewhat. Right after the tuba starts playing, a trombone starts playing right of center off stage but the sound is coming from the far left and echoing across center towards the back of the soundstage. If you watch the video, what's happening is the sound travels along the back wall and to the far left mic but some reflections are also being picked up by the right mic. As that same player starts approaching the right mic, the sound slowly moves across the front from the left to the right. There are three distinct yet diffuse images for most of the performance: left, center and right.

The above performance is in real contrast with The Menacing Tiger by Hok-man Yim (link below). In that performance, every sound is pin-point accurate across the width and depth of the soundstage. I surmise there were a lot more microphones on that stage and the mixing between left and right speakers was painstakingly implemented to get that kind of imaging.

Interestingly enough, the soundstage and imaging is very similar on my M2OW in the living room. The difference with the OW is that, believe it or not, the images come from greater depth and width. The images are also "softer" which is actually very easy to listen to. This is due to my room and the bow window between the M2s. I had similar depth in the living room with the actives but no matter what I did, I could not achieve the wall-to-wall width the M2OW do.

BTW, I have two crappy subs I use with the M2OW - one for each channel fed off the pre-amp of my Pioneer. Peter Gunn sounds much better on the M2OW with the subs off. It sounds like nothing is missing.

https://open.spotify.com/track/44iKEH3unzldjOrJefyLiv?si=5kDUauTPQCSBevjyTZSR6g

Mojo, the wood looks different because the pano was not done well ... it's pretty distorted actually ...
Even the amps look bent!

Just took something to give you an idea of the setup.

I like that "bent pano" look. Axiom ought to build 'em like that.

Well then ... just FedEx them a few times and your wish will come true

Is the $8800 price listed for LFR1100 active per pair or for each speaker?

For the pair + twin DSP boxes.

Mojo,
Just looked at the subs ... the one on the left has very even lined grain and looks really stunning. The one on the right is a lot more splotchy ... so your right ... it's the sub.

I wonder if the pandemic is making it harder to get / sort through veneers.

You know ... I need do this again with a protractor ... think that 75-80 is probably more like 50-60 degrees ... still pretty damm wide ...

Is there something specific I'm looking for???

Love that youtube link to the Symphony Orchestra the good the bad the ugly! Can't wait to hear it on the new speakers! thats going to be fun!

It's no fun Rich if I tell you what to listen for.

On the long wall? Hint, Hint: it'll be so much more awesomer!

[Guess you want me to place of the instruments ... I can hear
trumpets left, drums, then tuba in middle, trombones right of him all the way to French horn ending at something like 40 degs

Yup. And it's very clear and dynamic. How far is your MLP?

I keep moving stuff around. Currently it's the best it's ever been but I had to move the speakers together about a foot (which if I keep will effect the screen size).

Speakers backs about 23" from front wall. 10' apart, MLP is about 10 1/2 feet from the mid front of each speaker. Each speaker has a slightly different amount of toe-in and it seems like fractions of a degree matter. I also figured out that the EP600 next to the LFRs were effecting the sound coming off the rear so I moved them to face more on a diagonal and things improved quite a bit.

The Trinity Sessions - Mining for gold is so far the best to setup the imaging. When I setup with Holly Cole and then go to mining for gold ... the center is fuzzy ... think it's the church reverb which makes it the critical dial. I've done this so many times that one of my kids came down and told me to play "anything but that". Luckily, it only took two more times to finish.

So, I went back to dark side of the moon and ... I was getting sounds at 80 degrees again ... then listening further things got strange ... "On the run" had fast moving doppler sound which I swear hit 90 degrees ... then one started in the middle flew overhead down the back split to either side and slide down the side walls to meet at the front again ... had to play it a few times just to make sure.

I've heard people talk about stuff like that but this is a first I've ever experienced it ...

I say don't change anything with your room. Dont finish it...lol!

In the above description, how far away from the sides are the LFRs? Edit: 6 feet on each side if I remember correctly.

My subs are on the inside btw. Better room interaction. The subs and LFRs are equidistant from my MLP.

Mojo, doesn't casting that kill the quality of audio?

If you are referring to casting YouTube, I have not noticed a problem.

I cast Peter Gunn from YouTube onto my Chromecast Audio, through the Pioneer to my M2OW which are 10 feet apart, flanking my bow window, in a 22 foot wide room. The drums and tuba are coming from outside my window. The brass on the left and right extend to the far width of my room. Pretty effin' amazing.

Downstairs, I use Firestick 4K, through my Onk, then the DSPs, then ADAs to the actives. Far more dynamic, far more clarity, lots of width, not as much depth (due to the room) and certainly not as jaw-dropping an effect as the mega sound I get from tiny M2OW which cost 30 times less when you factor in the electronics. I tell listeners the sound is coming from the OW and they don't believe it. They have to put their ears up to them.

You want loud and clear, you gotta pay. But how loud and clear do you really need? The M2OW play loud enough they can be heard 5 houses away to the end of the street. And they are clear enough not to sound too mellow yet not overly analytical.

I like all the v4 though with the M3 being my least favorite.

Well, I Kept moving things around ... never got “on the run” to do the flying object, spit in back, and return up the side thing again ... now that passage has the object split in front, rundown the sides to about 135+ degrees and back to the front. The imaging is very good for the mid 3 seats, the next seat over sometimes things are centered but sometimes it breaks into Two images: centered and the closest speaker ... not sure if it’s my brain trying to keep the image centered ... or something recording wise which Switches between the two. In any case, with the setup on the long wall, the sweet spot may not be wide enough to get rid of the center channel ... I currently have the LFRs about 3’ out from the front wall and 10’ apart. As I move these away front the front wall I’ve been able to bump up the dsp far/near dial. Which so far has made the sweet spot wider. Note if you bump up the far/near dial too close to the front wall Things get too defuse and you can’t get an image.