Has anyone gotten there hands on any of the new Anthem gear? MRX 540/740/1140, or AVM 70?

The 70 and 90 look interesting but I also like to know more ...
Especially like to know what’s in the 90 which makes it worth 2x the 70

4 independent subwoofer controls instead of 2 and ultra high quality DACs that are 16 times the cost of the DACs in the 70.

The component may be good but the proof is in the execution. At 2x the 70 I’d like to see some independently verified numbers

Here is the 60 if any use. I would suspect the 70 is 10 better.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/anthem-avm60-review-av-processor.20155/

After reading a lot of reviews on that site I have to remind myself anything measuring better than 90db or so is likely inaudible. They fail a lot of products based on theoretical gains that likely arent perceptible in everyday use.... But their process and data is incredibly valuable and is indeed influencing manufacturers to do better already -Denon comes to mind as one manufacturer who actually engaged in the process after manufacturing faults were caught by Amir.

My Nad 777 measured just so so. In practice it is a champion of setup customization.

I havent used Arc, but I would recommend Nad based on their use of Dirac. The 778 would be one to look at if so. M17 if you dont want amps.

In a prepro you need to keep the noise floor exceptionally low as the amp will raise it by its Gain (think the ADAs have a 29x voltage gain which weirdly enough is the same number in db ...29db).

But you are right there are limits to numbers. In this case I’m looking to justify the extra $3500 for the 90 over the 70 ... and don’t have enough info other then what mojo mentioned to support it (4 subs and “it’s better”). I doubt I’m going to find enough real world value once the numbers are in.

BTW, thanks for the link... I read it a while back but would have been interested if I hadn’t (been following ASR for a while now). Amir is pretty hard on the ratings ... you have to read the review and evaluate the numbers your self ... although I think he’s softened up a bit lately.

Emotive also fixed a few RMC-1 issues pointed out by them... unfortunately I’m still on the side lines with both the company and the processor. I trust Anthem a lot more but the channel expansion promise of the RMC-1 keeps it on the list.

The 8805 also didn’t fair well. In practice it’s very passable for what it offers. Its hard to keep the noise floor down when so much sensitive analog electronics are mixed in a box stuffed with noisy digital and video circuits. A lot of the 8805 dissing was for things above the 20k hearing threshold. Although I think Marantz could have done a better job the wack down was pretty hard. On the other hand I’m not sure how inaudible noise effects the rest of the system as the amp will amplify it and the speaker will have to deal with it.

A properly designed speaker will be 100dB down all the way out there. Speakers that are linear to 100KHz would be broiling their tweeters with noise.

Aside from laying boards out correctly, using the right parts and properly planning power, signals, commons and ground, each board inside a unit like that has to be enclosed in metal boxes that don't leak EM energy. It becomes impractical and uneconomical in the consumer market.

Not sure where “there” is ... but the big thing throwing off the the SINAD (S/N+distortion) measurement was a spike around 35k. Just took a look at the review ... it read better than I remember ... wonder if he went back and softened it up a bit ... pretty sure it had a headless pink panther at one point ... the picture now is with a smiling head.

It did

Well then ... it grew a head and I’m not crazy

I sure like Amirs youtube vids. Great info and calm presentation style.

If you do end up with an Avm 90 Id like to hear about it for sure. 40 is coming....

NickBuol had the 1140. He liked it Bman

Didn’t know he was on you tube ... I’ll have to take a gander when I have a few minutes...

Is Anthem still offering a trade-up?

Back in December, I was seriously looking at the AVM 70, however, a friend of mine who works in a retail outlet that carries the Anthem line said any meaningful inventory would probably not be available until February at the earliest and if so, get on the list. Instead I got a hold of a Yamaha CX-A 5200,a little older unit, however, for a number of reasons, still my predominant choice. On the surface, the difference between the 90 and 70 is apparently, a little more upgraded DAC and the ability to connect FOUR independently controlled subwoofers rather than TWO. There could be other extra features that I am unaware of, but these are two of them and I am still not convinced that the price differential is worth it between the 90 and 70. Of course, the upgraded "Genesis" ARC room calibration software in all of their new AVR and Pre-Pros is regarded as being right up there with the best of them. Anthem did initially announce that any manual set-up would only be available in an outboard app(no on-screen programming) from which almost immediately they received a considerable amount of pushback and apparently re-introduced it back into their units. I would be curious to see if that actually happened.

In this day of home theater systems with with lots of source units, amps, video game consoles, cable/sat boxes, equipment of all sorts and lots of cable connections, one of the advantages of a Pre-Pro and separate amps is if the amp has the capability, being able to hook-up the Pre-Pro with the amps through "balanced" connections can, potentially make a big difference in the noise floor. I was having an issue with a a quiet, however, noticeable ground loop hum that I pinpointed through my cable box, the balanced connections ultimately, totally silenced. For that reason alone, personally, in future, I don't think I would ever go back to an AVR.

I don't have the disposable income at the moment for the 70 or the 90, but I'm interested in both. I will wait until I know HDMI 2.1 without issues is included. I've been waiting for a new pre-pro for a long time. I'm on my second or third intermediary AVR while I've been waiting for something with all of the features I'm looking for. I had an Integra pre-pro at one point, and I miss the balanced connections. I can't say how much they affected the noise floor versus just better design overall, but I will always prefer the click-in connection point to that of RCA. Everything else in my system is close to what I want (as always, FOR NOW), with the pre-pro/AVR being the final piece. I just need to save up some money again!

I will probably not be in the market this year ... I'll will get by with the 8805 till something changes my mind ... I need to evaluate if more channels would be a help. I suspect that content will play a big role in that. That said I alway reserve the right to upgrade just because.

If the 90 was a lot less it would be temping for subwoofer control (I have 4). But I'm almost certain that I won't hear the difference between the 70 and the 90.

ARC would be interesting to try. I have no trouble doing that with an App. I rather do it by touch then on screen. I actually would not mind it if they got rid of all the on screen stuff. I'd dedicate an old iPad to it.

Anyway, I mainly set up manually and its been working out well. Much better than Audacity although I may try the Audacity App and see if that makes a difference.


I'm not sure I follow ... sounds like your blaming a ground loop on the AVR.

For point of clarification it wasn't an AVR that was causing any ground loop issue, but, the adjacent cable box which is not uncommon. Initially, I was using the regular RCA(unbalanced)connections with my current Pre-Pro because the amp I previously had connected had no balanced connection option and at that point I actually had no problem with the ground loop hum. It started when I upgraded to a considerably more powerful pair of multi channel amps that had both connection options and although a filter I purchased got rid of most of the hum, late at night when I was watching a movie at low volume , some hum was audible, so it still bothered me. It seems sometimes when you introduce larger power supplies into the picture cable boxes don't want to "play nice" with them, hence, the hum. My audio friend suggested trying the balanced connections so I bought a set on-line, connected them which ultimately, got rid of the balance of the hum. Of course, this was my experience so others may not have the same problem, it was just a case of a Pre-Pro would give one that connection option that an AVR wouldn't.

I have seen on-line alot of A/V "coinosseurs" with "separates" recommending the "balanced" connection route anyway because they are built in such a way to deal more efficiently with any potential noise issues and the connections are more secure.

I can't say i've had any issues with the AVR either when it comes to noise floor. With nothing playing and everything turned on, there's zero noise. On the most quiet tracks i could find, i never heard any 'background' noise that couldn't be attributed still to the recording. Certainly no evident hiss like there is playing old cassettes.

I've read through a number of the Amir reviews and had the question about what is audible. They've described it a few times if you can find those posts and what he measures provides the "potential" for sound issues at which depending in part on some gear, most especially things like speaker sensitivity, then something like a noise floor or a spike in a frequency could become noticeable, BUT if that happens when playing back music for example, could you ever pick it out? Or are these artefacts mostly noticeable if only playing pure tones? At what point could these background noises be picked out during music playback?

Really, Amir puts the gear into various categories and if anything, those in the red are the ones you might question at least with a cocked eye. The bulk, certainly over 50%, of what he's measured falls into the yellow and green so probability of hearing something substantial that actually takes away from the listening experience decreases.
Plug into all that the question about cost, and everyone has themselves up in arms. Would i want to pay $3000 for an Anthem processor that falls into the yellow or (eech) the red category?
Hell no.
When you have Denon AVRs measuring high in the greens for half that price....i mean come on. Try and complain about that if you will at an engineering level, but them show me the proof how the Anthem outperforms the Denon. Much like others have noted, chances are side by side in a sound A/B comparison, you would notice little difference as overall quality goes unless that ugly, measurable artefact is bad enough that it becomes relevant.

Bottom line, overpriced stuff is often just overpriced. It doesn't equate to better sound.
Just like wine...

Very well said. I keep finding that over and over again in the audio market. well said.

I do believe there is a limit though. If you buy too cheap, things can be really cheap and i don't mean the DIY projects.
Anyone find (non vintage) speakers for under $150 that actually sound as quality as say the Axiom M2s? Because they sell lots in box stores...

I can't count the number of people i know who buy whatever sound bar they can find at Best Buy and it sounds loud but not great, almost distorted or something, but they are super happy with it, until they hear something really quality...
Had a parent party years ago at our house. Showed some of the parents some of the better quality sound on our system (DVD-audio discs, U571 depth charge scene). Ran into a guy this past fall before things shut down at the rinks and i hadn't seen him since that year probably 5 or 6 years ago. He still remembered the audio demonstration and asked again if i still had the system and what the speaker brand was.
If it is THAT memorable, what does that tell you about buying the cheap stuff at box stores. Still worth the lower cost? Perhaps for some.
Not for me.

Money is a funny thing in wine, audio, and ...
it sometimes gets you something better and a lot of the times not.
Often the cost of getting 90% of where you want to go is less then the next 5%, which is less then the next 2.

But also as often your paying for perception ... be it brand, style, or pure marketing bull.

About 30 years ago I bought an Omega watch. It told time as well as my $10 watch at 100 times the cost. It was a pride of ownership thing ...

Side note: it broke 5 or 6 years after its purchase and the jeweler wanted almost 3/4 it’s original cost to fix it. So it sits in a drawer now as I can’t seem to throw the POS away.

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I'd rather have onboard amps and augment with externals, as needed. Gives me more options. Ground loops can be isolated and silenced. No need for balanced connections to do that.

I would be interested in the new Anthem line of AVRs, but only if I can be certain they have improved cooling. My 1120 still irritated the hell out of me when the stupid fan runs. I have even added external cooling fans, but the AVR's fan still runs.

Anthem's room correction (ARC) is no joke. It's what keeps me interested in Anthem. It definitely made my HT sound better, and in a very noticeable way. Much more than blowing an extra 5 grand or so to get a system with separates.

When it comes to wine I really cannot distinguish between the $1200 bottle and the $10 bottle. Perhaps if I was a wine enthusiast and could taste the minor nuances in the wine I could distinguish better. But then again why train my palette when I already enjoy some of the cheaper wines. Same thing goes for beer and bourbon. I will occasionally splurge because there are certainly good tasting bourbons and wines that are costly that I do enjoy but it isn't something I want to spend on frequently. Audio on the other hand... I am certainly learning more as I go especially in the home audio market. Cost isn't always associated with better. Why spend 4 times the cost if the difference is never going to be audible or noticeable.

Generally speaking, for several years now even with my previous AVRs, I always tended to connect to outboard amps anyway and it generally relates to power specs. The mainstream manufacturers have aways been criticized(and the criticism is probably valid)that they tend to quote high power ratings i.e. 130/150 watts with one or two channels driven whereas, in reality, if it is a 7/9/11 channel AVR that claims the above wattage, when all channels are driven the actual output is maybe a liitle more than half the claimed total. If you have a good 5 or 7 outboard amp and it specs are 150 watts/ch. ALL channels driven, generally that is what you are going to get. For eg. Axiom amps.

One thing I noticed in recent years with the the mid to lower tier AVR models, other than the usual sub outs and maybe a couple of channels, they have started to quietly eliminate the pre-outs on all channels negating the option of using additional outboard amps almost forcing you to buy the more expensive models who still have the pre outs included.

Cranes, I agree with you. I treat wine in many respects like audio. It's a value proposition . I can appreciate a single note wine when it's under $6 but expect a lot more at $12. At $30 only once in a while do I find one that's worth it. I've only been disappointed in wines over $50 ... many I felt should have been price at $12. Of course, I keep trying.

My friends in France assure me that you need not spend that ... One of them told me to buy it early and store it for a few years ... I'm trying that but I think he has a slight advantage when great vineyards are but a drive away and top notch ones are walking distance from his fathers house. It's amazing what they pull out of their cellars ... have yet to get anything close here.


Casey,

On AVRs I'm also with you ... I try and purchase ones with at least the front preouts. It seems you need to hit the $1000us range (+/-) to get it. I think the marketers have figured out that people who are in the know want precuts and are willing to pay for it.

From what i've learned and heard. The best speakers perform at 90%, can be purchased for 2k-4k. For that extra 10% you have to spend 20k-100K more. it's only 10% and not everyone can hear it. But it's there, and it's real, but it's really hard to justify.

The Omni Actives are an anomaly to that theory.

I’m pretty sure LFR1100s could compete with a lot of those 100k speaker. But your right about hearing ... my ahhh “gold ear” days are well behind me ... so what do I know

rrlev - What I've learned about wines in the states is that most of them are not made to age. They are aged and bottled ready to drink within a year or they lose flavor. Most of the French wines I've had you can purchase and continue to let them age to enrichen the flavors. My favorite French winery is Lafitte. I haven't had any of their wines that have disappointed but at $100+ a bottle I only purchase on rare occasions.

Cranes, I always ask someone I trust before getting a bottle to age. The only Californian wine I have in that group is Mayacamas Cabernet Sauvignon 2016 ... we will see.

BTW I usually steer a way from California wines and big name vineyards because one can get better values elsewhere. That one I picked up at a bargain price.

Canes, you've probably been called many things but never Cranes.

Ooops ... sorry Canes

People mess up my surname all of the time so I am actually use to it. I order most of my California wines from wineries in Temecula. I like Sonoma and Napa wines but I've always been partial to Temecula but unfortunately you can't get them in stores. I think all Temecula wineries only sell direct.

My Omega broke as well.

As to speakers, I have heard some relatively pricey speakers (Wilsons, Harbeths) which are simply on a different level of sound quality. The difference is stunning. I have heard some more expensive speakers which do not sound as good. I have not heard less expensive speakers which sound nearly as good.

PS I like the look of the green Rolex Submariner, but I'm not spending $20,000 for one. I found the Loreo tribute to the Submariner on Amazon. It is an automatic, has a nicely finished good looking mechanical movement visible from the back, is accurate to 3 second a day, almost as good as my Tissot Le Locle, and cost $120. The watch is hefty, band is comfortable, and it is a fine looking piece. Go try you one, if you still wear a watch. You'll like it.

I've been an oenophile back the 90s as best as i can remember. Our cellar has a variety of wines across the world, varying ages and price points. I rarely buy anything above $40-45 unless there is an exception for some reason (the WolfBlass Black Label is one such wine; fantastic cellaring!). Too low a price though and you get some really faux stuff. It's quite hard for a winery to make a quality wine and also make it inexpensive (say defined by $14 or less, Cdn price).

I'm in that exact position right now. No AVR under $850 Cdn has pre-outs that i've seen (and i'm not talking about BStock). I found an Onkyo on sale last year, previous year model for $900 which i probably should have snapped up but missed the deal. Now everything i've seen, including USED units from 2 or 3 years ago, all selling for over $1k, anything new is $1300+ if you need pre-outs. That being said, try and find a cheap processor as a replacement. Even the Emotiva units fall into this price range. Then you would also need to add amps and hence the value added features of the AVR for your above average HT person.
You just can't get around having to pay a minimum that feels higher than you want to in order to obtain a quality wine or a HT processor with the features you need (like pre-outs).
It becomes a "suck it up buttercup" situation; you have to fork out the cash.

This is into the realm of audio myths.
There's many out there.
No one could ever peg such a number to things though some people believe in them enough they get ensconced in the audio world of belief. Years ago i heard things like how to break down your home audio budget.
40% speakers, 40% preamp/amp, 15% source, 5% cables, etc. etc. in many other numerical variations

What was that song lyric?
Don't believe the hype.

The three biggest factors on how humans perceive sound and quality if you will at any given time and place:
a) speakers
b) room
c) state of mind (e.g. personal emotion and mood)

I don't wear a watch anymore ... although
If apple ever designs something a bit thinner I might try one ... hate pulling my phone out of my pocket every time the damn beeps, buzzes or I need to check the time.

P.S. I did own a Tissot at one point in time but I might have lost it as I haven't seen it in years.

If you find your Tissot, I'll take good care of it.

Just to chime in with my previous Anthem experience, I noticed a huge improvement in clarity when I upgraded from a Denon X4500H AVR to an Anthem MRX 720, especially in music. I was using pre-outs on both, so essentially using the AVR's as processors (amplification provided by Axiom ADA-1000's). Things got even better for the MRX 720 after I had a chance to run ARC Genesis.

I haven't seen Amir's videos, but it sounds like he may need to take a page from Axiom's book and balance the cold, hard math with blind listening tests.

Harmonic distortion and cross-talk can sound very good but it looks very bad in cold, hard math.

Cold hard math, that's what I like listening to.

Agree bman. There’s science and measurement and then there’s human factors and nuance. Such as how a product looks visually or our perception of it from pictures snd reviews. Blind listening leaves no room for ambiguity. I’d love to try it sometime.

For example, I mean really , does my system actually sound better when my living room is clean and dimly lit and the ambiance is just right? To me sometimes it does but I think it’s just a perception. If I close my eyes it sounds the same as with eyes open.

I think measurements are important but beyond some of the basic ones I don’t totally understand them all or their scales of what is considered good or not. I’m slowly beginning to wrap my head around it. In some cases ignorance might be bliss in terms of not understanding. It’s a bit of a rabbit hole......

Try putting up a false AT wall. Your brain imagines sound all over the place. If you cant see the speakers it makes a big difference.

Yer basement maybe......

Yes!! Great idea. I’ll put that in the idea container for sure. I like that a lot. Easy to setup and not be in the way down there or unsightly. Very good!

On AT walls.

My original plan was to head in that direction but when I started thinking about the size of the room ... it was nixed. If I knew the on-walls were as good as they are I might have explored the combined HT/family room more.

If you do everything with bookshelves and towers your going to loose 2 to 4 feet on each wall, maybe more to do it right. Your 16x20 is now a 10x14.

I think you can get that down to 6 or 8” a wall using all on wall surrounds. I personally would do a combo ... keep the front at 4’ And the rest on-wall and as thin as I can get them.

Just need front wall. PE used to sell fire rated speaker cloth at 110” roll width.

AT screens on Amazon these days. Not too expensive. Think my wall was around $950 all in.

How deep is the front wall? And what kind of speaker do you have behind it? floor standing, bookshelves, on-walls.

BTW ... the original thought was to hide all the speakers

Pm sent

Hi: I have the chance to get a 1140 at a good price....over on AVS seeing these new Anthem's processor's & AVR seem to have some "bugs" still going on with them??If true does anyone here actually own one & how is Anthem doing with the updates to fix the "bugs" thanks!!

From what I have seen so far, the bugs in question primarily relate to the new generation of "ARC Genesis" room correction system which, apparently, is still being worked through. The consensus so far, however, is that once the reviewers, in consultation with the Anthem HO, worked through most of the issues, the sound was pretty much unparalleled to anything they had previously reviewed with the most current available AVR/Pre-Pros.

In my opinion and considering the considerable upside and compared to the mainstream competitors top end AVRs and the price being pretty competitive, I would go for it and then work through any issues that might still exist. Of course, Anthem is a N/A company which helps.

Thanks Casey!!!that is what I've being reading/hearing too!!!!Thanks again