Has anyone compared the EP175 and VTF-2 paired with M22s? For home theater I get the impression that the VTF-2 is the better choice, but for music which one is the better choice? Any thoughts...

VTF-2 is better for both.

Um, no offense, but every single thread on this forum pretty much has someone telling them to get the HSU VTF-2 or SVS PBS-1. It is not that Axiom subs are bad, they just are not quite as good as these companies that specialize only in subs. So please, look at any other forum topic, and you will see that posted everywhere.

Looks like I've got a competitor for the post of Axiom Board curmudgeon!

Snippy...Snippy...Snippy, come on. I'm gonna' get you a bumper sticker that says "I DON'T break for newibies".

Snip...if you don't like answering questions repeatedly, just pass by the thread. You don't have to respond every time.

Many newbies aren't only newbies to this board, they're newbies to boards altogether. Besides, it's nice to have someone personally respond to your question. It's more like talking to someone about your questions, rather than just going to the library and looking the info up in a book. It's the interaction that makes boards fun, no?

and to answer your question. Yeah - get the Hsu. You won't be dissapointed.

Sorry I am not trying to be mean, there was just a thread two spots below this one that said something like:
"Recommended subs for M22's?"
I just thought the poster could have looked over the posts a little before posting his own topic. Then they would have seen an answer already.

Sorry for the newbie post. Before posting I did read many previous threads on the sub issue but felt very few addressed the issue from a musical perspective.

spiffnme - Thanks for sticking up for us newbies!! I also find your posts very informative.

Don't be sorry, mannyr...

I know that, although we all answer similar questions many times, in each iteration we tend to phrase it differently with distinct emphases, reflecting the particular way the questioner asks things. I don't feel repeated answers are a waste -- although, yes, I do encourage newbies to search the forum first.

To answer your question, yes, the Hsu subs are particularly good at music, thanks to their tight, accurate bass capabilities.

Manny, I don't have any personal observations on the two subs you mention, but I have a general comment. A sub should play low with fairly flat response, at high levels, and with moderate distortion(although relatively high levels of distortion aren't audible in the lowest bass frequencies). If it does, it's a good sub, and is good for music, movies and music in movies. If it doesn't, it isn't good enough. In my view no distinction between music and movies should be discussed, although this sometimes take place.

Basically if someone says a sub is good for "music" what they're saying is, "it's a good sub". If someone says a sub is better for movies than music. Stay away. That means it has higher levels of distortion. It'll tend to sound "boomy".

Gentlemen, newbie issues aside. I still haven't seen a head-to-head comparison of subs. Recent posts indicate that HSU is the sub to buy but those same folks admit never having run a comparison with the Axiom subs. Perhaps this is something one of the on-line reviewers would be willing to undertake with the support of Axiom. Perhaps it has been done and I missed it. If so, please point the way!

As a EP175 owner I would like to get rid of the buyers remorse I feel each time someone recommends the HSU.

Maybe Alan would be so kind as to weigh in here.

OK, now we are getting interesting. Here is a review, (although it is through SVS) of a face off between SVS, HSU VTF-3 and EP350:

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/reviews_mitchell.htm

The one problem I have with the review is that the price range between the subs do not match, there should have been a VTF-2, not a VTF-3 in the review. Sorry for the brattiness earlier, Enjoy the review!

Interesting. I would think that because of the musicality, the Hsu would win. But perhaps I'm just biased towards music.

The HSU kinda did win, but because it cost so much more, they gave the win to the SVS because they felt the difference was not worth $300.

Also, if you want to see the real reason I was such a grump, check out this poor forum, who has been attacked by this guy for the last two days:

http://forums.dvdfile.com/interactive/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9

Check out all the posts by Brttlt about getting a new prog scan player. I was getting really frustrated with him and took it out on you guys, sorry.

Anyone in the LA area that owns an EP175 is MORE than welcome to stop by my place with their sub. I'd love to do a side-by-side comparison of the two.

All my pro-Hsu comments are based on my experience with my VTF-2 and all the "you can do better than the Axiom sub" comments I've read over the past.

I'd love to be able to say I've heard both.

In reply to:

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I was getting really frustrated with him and took it out on you guys, sorry.

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Thanks for sayin' so snippy! Can we get a hug now.

We should start a "sub pool" into which we chip in a few bucks here and there to cover the cost of return shipping on each of the Axiom subs. Then, we could elect members to order the subs and A/B compare them against the most popular offerings from Hsu and SVS.

Would anyone be interested in spearheading this?

I hereby recuse myself due to impending fatherhood -- which by best guesstimate is ANY DAY now...

In reply to:

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In my view no distinction between music and movies should be discussed, although this sometimes take place.

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JohnK has a point. In my view, if a sub "passes" my critical tests on music, it is almost guaranteed that it will pass the movie LFE tests, too. To me, music materials are MUCH more discerning and revealing of the possible deficiencies in subwoofers.

Why? Besides my own pickiness on music reproduction, one of the obvious reasons is the fact that NOBODY really knows how exactly those explosions and crashes in movie scenes sound in the real world. In other words, when it comes to LFEs, we do NOT have any reliable sonic references. To me, this makes movie soundtracks a highly forgiving material for subwoofer tests -- essentially, if it can play "deep and loud," that's about it. In contrast, I have much more critical, golden-standard references for music -- the live performances.

When "sound quality" comes up when talking about subwoofers, I think if quick accurate transient bass.

With subs, I think high SPL levels are pretty easy....but musical is not.

-curtis

Manny, I'm looking for the same HT advice. Sometimes you need to check things out for yourself. Being a Newbie on the block, I recently listened to the B&W ASW 600 & the ASW 650. These things knocked me right out of my chair. Albeit in a very sound freindly environment. The price range is $500 to $1000 depends on what deal you can get. check-em out!

Hello all..I am a newbie and have my order of M22's, VP150, QS8's and Hsu sub. When talking to Brent last week about my order I asked him about the subs. He told me that they are coming out with a new line of them and from the tone in his voice he is very excited about this. Sounds like to me that in the future Axiom won't be losing out on the subs to Hsu and Svs. I just couldn't wait till the end of year for mine. So if you have a month or so to wait then you may want to check back when their new line of subs are out.

Hmmmm... VERY interesting. I wonder when we'll hear some official info on new Axiom subs.

You can tell me...I promise to tell everyone!

Speaking of new subs, what is the difference of the new HSU ones compared to their current line up? From what I can tell, the only main difference is the lack of switching from max extension(I think it is locked in max extension).

Is that really the only difference? I wanted the VFT-2 until I realized the waiting time for the B-Stock was over 90 days.

As far as I know, that is indeed the biggest difference. Those new STF series subs, should indeed be real bargains.

So from reading the description on their website, only allowing maximum extension will ensure that all forms of audio are bass "heavy"?

Having never owned a sub before, what's the likelyhood I would have ever switched between one setting or the other?

Do others that have the VTF series switch all the time?

-Nick

I honestly never switch mine. I have it set for maximum extension (depth) and leave it there. That little VTF-2 is plenty loud enough.

It doesn't make things "bass heavy". It will not sound "boomy" at all. It simply has the ability to go real low when needed.

Awesome..that's reassuring as I was considering the VTF-2

-Nick

Seems like maybe the reviewer of the SVS, HSU and AXIOM subs was a little biased....IMHO.