Posted by Chesseroo:

"Although i now have a question for Ajax.
Care to elaborate?

In reply to:
(but am SERIOUSLY considering upgrading to the M60s for frequency response reasons, not volume)"

I've had my 22tis for about 3 weeks now. I've held off posting my opinions because I've been trying to get my thoughts organized. Not easy. (Just wait 'til YOU are old!)

I apologize in advance if I don't use the "correct" word or term to describe what I'm hearing.

First, I have never encountered such clarity in my 35 years of listening experience. I hear everything.

The sound stage(?) or spacial quality is likewise amazing.

At first, I had a little trouble with the "brightness" that others have mentioned, but I realized I was setting the volume at the level I set my previous speakers (Bose 301s), not by my ears, and was running things much louder than necessary. I have a meter, and have done an initial calibration, but due to responsibilities and illness (I'm running a 99.8 degree temperature as I'm typing, and am, therefore, NOT responsible for anything I say) I haven't got it where I think it should be.

However, the thing that has me considering "changing" to the MS (I have to decide in the next couple of days), is the feeling that the S are lacking something in the upper bass/Lower midrange area. I feel that there is a slight "hole" between the 22s and my sub (STF-2). Others who have the 22s (Snippy?) have mentioned the same thing. And even some who have already "changed" from the 22s to the M60s (Chesseroo?) have said the same thing.

My problem, as it is for so many of us, is my room itself. I have a slightly larger room (11.5 X 18 X 8) than Sigma, whose thread inspired this dissertation.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=HT&Number=34727&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

But, for various reasons, my seating area is only 8 to 10 feet from where the speakers would be, and the speakers would be only 8 feet, or so, apart.

However, IF (and that is one big IF) the M60s provided a better frequency response in the upper bass/lower midrange area, then the "change" would be welcome. And, I think that would qualify as an "upgrade" even by Chesseroo's definition.

All thought, comments, and criticisms are welcomed.

My first question is what sub do you have and where is it crossed over?

We'll go from there.

Sorry to hear you are ill Ajax.
But there's nothing like typing when you have a delerious fever running.

I would ask the same question as spiff.
What sub and what crossover settings are you using?

If the sub is crossed too low, the M22s are hitting their low range sooner than the sub picks up the bottom end leaving this hole in a frequency range you may be hearing.
Or perhaps your hearing is missing a certain sound range due to age. Hey, it happens.
Go to any loud concerts lately? A little too much Metallica perhaps?

What fever are you guys running? In my post above I mentioned my STF-2. However, I failed to tell you that I'm running all speakers small, and the fixed crossover in my Onkyo 797 is 80Hz. I've got the crossover switch on the STF-2 set to "off," and the crossover frequency knob on the STF-2 turned all the way up (90Hz)

Realistically, I've considered the possibility that because the 22s are so superior to what I'm used to in the mid and high range, it just SEEMS like a shallow upper bass/lower mid response. Hard to tell. If you're not used to hearing "flat," then "flat" sounds strange.

"Or perhaps your hearing is missing a certain sound range due to age. Hey, it happens.
Go to any loud concerts lately? A little too much Metallica perhaps?

ROMAOTF LOL!!!!!!

Actually, I've been a professional musician all my life and was a sound man for a country rock band back in the late 70's and early 80's. So, I have been exposed to loud SPLs. Tinnitus anyone? I think that has had an effect on the high end of my hearing (age does that, too), but I doubt that it created a hole in the upper low/low mid range.

You whippersnappers. Metallica? Why back in my day we listened to REAL music!

A couple of ideas you may want to try before giving up and buying new speakers.

1) Try setting the mains to "large". (I rarely recommend this, but in this situation it seems at least worth a shot.)

2) Rather than using the fixed 80hz crossover of your receiver, try running the M22ti's through the subwoofer, and using the subs crossover. You can then tweak the crossover as much as you want. You may find a better setting that way.

Good luck!

Good suggestions, Spiff. I'll give them a shot if I'm not dead by morning. With any luck I will be. Please!

If neither of those ideas work, and you do opt for the M60's, your room is certainly big enough. I'd do my best to get your ears at LEAST 10' back though. If you can squeeze another foot or two, all the better.

The powers that be at Axiom would likely let you purchase a pair of M60ti's and give you a week or so to A/B them with your current M22ti's. That would answer all your questions. Just send back the pair you decide not to keep. If my two little tweak ideas above didn't work, that's certainly what I'd do.

Thanks, so much, to you both.

I've been playing with some rearrangement ideas for the room that would give me a little more space. If I decide to try the M60s, I'll figure something out.

spiff is on the ball today and way ahead of me in time reply posting.
I actually have my M60s setup as 'large' and have turned down my EP350 crossover to the 50Hz (approx.) point. I don't like using the subwoofer for sounds beyond low organ notes and explosions. The M60s do a superb job in filling in that mid bass with reasonable authority and accuracy.
When reviewing the M22s in my basement, i found the M60s simply had more than the M22s did. They really filled my desire for a full sound without trying to do it with a subwoofer. If that is the 'hole' you are looking to fill, then perhaps the M60s are really what you might be searching for.

I can only imagine some former sound ppl or concert musicians going from loud, blasting, larger than living room sound to Axiom M22s in a home room of reasonable size. The first thought that comes to mind is "thin" but it does depend on your reference point and it certainly is NOT specific to Axiom speakers. I would think anyone picking up a bookshelf speaker of any brand who is used to what i stated previously, would find them lacking in some 'fullness'.
I suppose another analogy might be similar to a person going from the M22s as a reference point to some dinky Logitech computer speaker. Something becomes absent in the sound.

Jack, I'm sure those speakers will sound better once you FEEL better. Get your self a little sack time.

Be Well.