I'm most likely going to end up with the Yammy 1400 or 2400 when I buy my receiver in a bit. Yamaha is incorporating the new Dolby Pro-Logic IIx in these receivers. It is supposed to decode 2 channel and 5.2 channel sound into 7.1 stereo sound (with full bass extension, and full-band stereo rears - by deriving the sound for the rear surround from the front surround).

I currently only have Pro-logic and a decoder for 5.1 on my system right now. I think that the Pro-Logic sounds fairly artificial, very echo-ey etc., and it seems to make mistakes all the time (placing voices in the rears, or loud high-end stuff when I play music with it on).

Have any of you listened to Pro-Logic and Pro-Logic II enough to know how different they sound?

Also - taking it one step further, do any of you have any experience with PL IIx (the 'x' stands for extended - referring to the two extra rear surrounds)?

If so, how does it sound - does it make 7.1 a possibility for today?

And how much emphasis should I place on PLIIx when buying a receiver, as it seems the only DSP, besides Logic 7 that decodes into all 8 channels.

Any input is welcome.

PL2 is very good for, say, regular cable TV or old movies. Other than that, I don't like the sound. But it's much better than PL

While PLIIx can reconstruct 2 channels to 7, it's no better than regular PLII at 2-to-5. IOW PLIIx is only an issue if you'll have 6 or 7 channels.

Regarding how well PLII is at reconstructing 5.1 from stereo, it varies widely depending on source material. The good news is it's rarely artificial or unnatural. The bad news is you often don't hear much surround. It's dependent on source material characteristics. For a list of stereo material that shows off PLII, see http://www.dolby.com/tech/co.br.0102.PLIIDemo.pdf

The bottom line is PLII and PLIIx are nice but no substitute for discrete multichannel, if available.

I have an RX-V1400, and it's a nice unit. However Harmon Kardon and Denon are good also, and have advantages in some areas.

Joema - do you have the rears set up with your 1400?

Also - since Dolby just released the PLIIx last fall, is it possible to run into a 1400 without PLIIx - (like at an online discount retailer)? I'm plannign on running 6.1 or 7.1 and would hate to save $20 and not get PLIIx.

I have 5.1 - M60s/VP150/QS8s and a Hsu VTF-3R. If by "rears" you mean the rear surrounds in a 7.1 config, no I don't have that.

I've heard it's possible to get a 1400 w/o PLII from an unauthorized online discounter. However that was some time ago. My guess is most of the 1400s in the distribution chain now have PLIIx. Search the recent postings on www.avsforum; maybe they have an idea.

If you're going to run 6.1 or 7.1, PLIIx definitely makes sense.

I was initially planning on 7.1, but a couple of things changed my mind to 5.1. I've ended up doing more music and less HT, and there's no widely available discrete 6 or 7 channel material. I listened to how well PLII reconstructed 5.1 from stereo, and overall it's not great, so figured stereo to 7.1 would be no better. Some material is very good and others is very flat. I guess that's really no different from a stage-oriented vs surround-oriented discrete 5.1 mix. But PLII can't magically remix the material, and errs on the side of naturalism rather than force surround into existance. I think that's the right design decision, but a lot time PLII doesn't produce much surround.

If you're doing more HT with recent movies, quite a few have 6.1 and 7.1 discrete soundtracks, and likely many more will in the future. I could definitely see the benefit of 6.1 or 7.1 there.