It just goes to show that new is not always the best. I did some side by side tests today using my brother-in-laws Sony DVSP 7000 against both my Denon 2800MKII and my Denon 2815. Both the Denons are progressive scan etc. The Sony on the other hand is 4 years old, no progressive and of course for the most part, old technology.
Anyway, the point is, the Sony displayed a picture that rivalled my 2800MKII and the 2815. I'm still in shock to say the least. What a great example of why upgrading doesn't always pay off. I went from a 7000 to the 7700 then to the 9000ES (Which I still think is one of the most over-rated players out there!) years ago and a ton of players since then and I'm sitting here wondering why? lol
My brother-in-law's usual player for DVD is the Yamaha CX-1 and he now uses the 7000 mostly for CD's. I'm having trouble with this part but here goes.......... The CX-1 had both my Denons for lunch hands down when it came to video. I kid you not. Way better picture...........and I mean way better. If anyone is looking for a nice multi disc player, give this Yamaha a long look. Very nice to say the least. The Sony held up fine also but the gap did get a little bigger between the older Sony and the Yamaha but DAM! that old Sony sure puts out a nice picture.
So the Yammy was the best? Does it do SACD and/or DVD-A?
I hate to say it, but yeah it was.........but it only does DVD-A.
Durn! I'm more interested in SACD than DVD-A... Oh well. Not that I've even looked into catalogs on either. And not that I'm serious about a new disc player anyway.
If you want both you need to look at the Yamaha 2300MKII which I posted awhile back on. It's a sleeper of a universal player.
Interesting NeverHappy, so upgraditis is a double edged sword...
I'll have to seriously compare players when I upgrade mine.
Cheers, Jag
Yeah it is! There is a big fuss right now over the Denon 3910 for example. I want one and I think I'm not alone. However the more I look into it, there are players out there that are just as good and nowhere near the price point. I look for a great picture first, then audio, then everything else.
I was ready to pull the trigger on the 3910 but I backed off as I think I can get the same performance for a lot less money. The Denon 1600 for example is a whack cheaper and from all reports, the picture is as good as the 3910. I can also live without a universal player.
I'm on the hunt now for a new DVD player. So if it's cool with everyone here, I'm going to post what I try out and post my own thoughts on it. Rememeber that statement, MY OWN thoughts! I'm not going to cut anything up just post what I think and nothing else!
I tried a Denon 900 today just to see what a lower end player from Denon was like. Not to bad at all but not near my 2800MKII when it came to video, so I took it back. Blacker then black was off and it looked like it had a chroma problem. Most woudn't even notice it but I'm a little anal when it comes to the picture I want and expect. I'm thinking about trying NAD's T562 on Thursday. I will post back after I play with it a little.
I took the 900 back and just came back home with a Denon 1600. If I'm not mistaken this would fall somewhere in the middle of Denon's line-up! I will hook it up and post back after I finish watching Dawn of The Dead.
Does anyone here have one of these 1600's? I won't bore you with my ramblings but this thing produces an absolutely stunning picture. Much better then I would have ever thought. Very nice little unit for anyone looking for a straight ahead DVD player without a lot of bells and whistles. If that is all you want, give this one a long look.
..............but in the end, I took it back. I want a better picture if that's possible................so I now have a 2910 in my hands and my buddy is coming over with his 2900 and we are going to see if there is a huge difference if any between the two.!
Neverhappy-
You must have a great relationship with a local dealer.... I don't think mine would let me keep buying and returning stuff everyday!
Yes, ummmm, today I'll try the Classe' stuff.......
I actually don't have to buy it. He just let's me take it. I bought my Denon 3805, Denon 2800MKII and over the years 3 TV's and one big screen from him. He knows I always buy something in the end.
Very Cool.
I don't think that would ever happen at my local Tweeter!
Does he carry Integra? I'm just curious how my 8.5 would stack up to the Denons. So far, I'm pretty dam impressed. It has a better picture than the Toshiba 6200. Plus, it plays CD's remarkably well.
Of cource this all my opinion based off very limited A/V auditioning.
No he doesn't carry Integra. Are you talking the DPC 8.5? I hate to say it but if you are and based on the Secrets results for example, the Integra would probably not fair well versus most of the upper end Denon's. The DPC 8.5 scored a 38 out of 100. If you take for example the new 3910 from Denon, it scored a high of 93. These guy's also don't monkey around with the testing they do. There is no if and or butts with these guys. Everything for the most part is based on fact.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=120
Well we played with the 2910 for a few day's and did a side by side with the older 2900. To be honest they both put out a fantastic picture. The 2900 displayed a picture that was equal to the 2910. The 2910 has a few more bells and whistles but if it was me, I would save the bucks and get the 2900. It can be had cheaper and seems to do DVD video just as well as the newer 2910. I was thinking about trying the 3910 next but I honestly don't think I need to. From all the reports I have read and given the guts of both players, I don't think the picture on the 3910 will be any better then the 2900 or the 2910.
What this has done however is made me real curious on the 5900. From all accounts this thing has the best picture of almost any DVD player out there but I'm not sure I can justify the money.
Hey, NeverHappy (and now I know where the name comes from) where do you do your electronics shopping? I'm sick of dealing with morons in all the stores I've looked at in the city (visions, FS, although A&B is pretty good) and it seems like where you shop may be a better experience?
At current prices, the 2900 is an absolute steal. The 5900 is and has been suffering from something called macroblocking. Since I don't have one and wasn't interested in getting one, I didn't take the time to determine what macroblocking does to the picture. The denizens at AVS Forum are pretty lathered up about it.
Here's a tidbit in non-technical terms as well. The 2900 (as well as the 2200 and 3800) uses the Silicon Image chip which provides a a better picture for film (DVD movies), while almost all other Denon players use the Faroujda chip. I've seen information that says Denon would prefer to use the SI chip but 1) its a bit more expensive and 2) there is a small issue (nit picking, really) relative to MPEG decoding that SI hasn't fixed yet.
For some TVs, the SI chip is an absolute match for denterlacing. The Sony Grand Wega LCD ( I have this TV) is one of them. I decided to get a 2900 when 1) I saw recent traffic on the DVD forum at AVS , most notably from umr, about the 2900, 2) I got a $500 gift certificate as a recognition item at work (limited use, but Crutchfield was one of the places and 3) the price of the 2900 dropped to $700 at Crutchfield.
I had the 1600 and it was excellent; still is in 3rd or 4th place since 2001 in the Secrets DVD Shootout and the 2900 is right below it. The 2900 rating was influenced by the MPEG thing, otherwise it would closer to the top of list. Anyhow, I love the 1600, but the 2900 took me to entirely new level. Sharper, more vibrant colors, 3D like picture AND it has a set of killer audio DACs. Whatever the MPEG issue is is not noticeable to me.
Kris Deering at Secrets and umr both have a 3800 with the SI chip and they explain that it is the best picture they have ever seen. The 2900 uses the same Si chip and it is stunning.
Forum traffic suggests that the 2910 and 3910, while excellent units, may represent a small step backwards in some respects compared to the 2900.
There is quite a bit of info at AVS in the DVD forum, too much to link to here. If you have an interest, that info will give you a great perspective on current Denon DVD players and ubderscore what an outstanding unit the 2900 is. The net of all of this is that the 2900 is an incredible unit on a relative basis, especially with the price reduced as it is. Please don't regard this as a "fanboy" post. I spent an enourmous amount of time researching and auditioning between the 1600, 2910, 3910 and 2900. The 2900 simply stands out.
In reply to:
Hey, NeverHappy (and now I know where the name comes from) where do you do your electronics shopping? I'm sick of dealing with morons in all the stores I've looked at in the city (visions, FS, although A&B is pretty good) and it seems like where you shop may be a better experience?
Check your PM. As for our little city. Visions is a joke. I can't stand them. Any company that puts out a flyer that includes great deals but yet when you go down to grab one, the answer is "Out of stock" I hate that and they do it all the time. A&B actually isn't to bad but other shops in town always beat the prices they call "The Best" deal in town. As for Future Shop, I call it "Butcher Shop" for a reason. I don't even go in the place anymore. I also won't deal with Audio Warehouse and a few others for various reasons.
I was looking forward to Best Buy but after getting in and out of there a few times, I doubt I will go back. Prices are average at best and I had a headache by the time I left. If one more person had come up to me and said "You know we don't get commission right?" I would have gone postal
macroblocking is a "not so nice to look at" artifact of the compression algorithms used to fit feature-length movies onto DVDs. It is most often apparent in areas of mostly uniform color on the screen.
This page has a great explanation.
I can't get over this old Sony DVSP 7000. We watched Shrek 2 last night on it and then the Denon 2900. Obviously the Denon is the better player but the Sony held it's own. I can't believe that something that came out years ago can compete with players that are worth 5 and 6 times as much money. We are pitting a non progressive player against progressive players and this old Sony is doing just fine. I'm re-evaluating the hoop la surrounding progressive as I sit here.
Anybody still running one of these? Now that I have done this over the last few day's I'm seriously thinking about grabbing one to run with Dolby Digital DVD's and saving a bunch of money that I would have spent on a higher priced, newer Denon..........Yes, the 7000 is that good. Only problem is with DTS discs. Not real sure what I would do about that.
I can't believe I did it, but I did it. I found a mint condition DVSP-7000 and actually bought it. $150.00US shipped to my door and let me tell you once again, I can't get over the picture this thing puts out. I have been doing the A/B thing with my Denon 2800MKII and I can't see a noticeable difference. Hat's off to Sony on what is a truly amazing DVD player.
On a side note. I'm putting together a little system for a friend of mine and the first piece I bought was a Yamaha RX-V1400. I must admit that the Yamaha has blown me away. Very, very nice receiver. I looked at the 1500 and the 2500 from Yamaha but didn't see enough to justify the extra money. Anyway, did I say this was a nice receiver? :-)