subwoofer/acoustic treatment questions

Hello all,
I have a game room that is dedicated for HT/music. It measures 14'X16'X9'. It can be completely enclosed from the rest of the house. Here's the room layout:

Questions

1.Subwoofer question Requirement: allow me to achieve 20Hz-20Khz (reasonable fluctuations ok) response at listening position with the M80s at listening levels that are anywhere from -20 to 0 in my Denon 3805. Candidates: Hsu VTF-3 MK2($750), SVS 20-30pci ($650), SVS 20-39pc+ ($870). Leaning towards Hsu because of furniture friendly finish. Will either Hsu VTF-3 or SVS 20-39pci do the job?

2. Acoustic treatment Do I need any for my room? I haven't done any tests with Avia/DVE, need to buy one of these two discs. I found information at the www.auralex.com site, but wanted to find out if it is necessary.

Will appreciate any input from you audio/videophiles out there

Thanks!
Ananth

Why aren't the EP500 or EP600 options? They'd match your speakers perfectly.

Also...Hsu just anounced at CES a VTF-3HO (high output).

I have the VTF-3 and I can tell you without hesitation that it will do the job.

Re: room treatments

Practically no one is lucky enough not to need at least some treatment although most folks don't realize it. How much and where to put it and what kind is the sticky wicket. It's very difficult to experiment with room treatments. Unless you plan to hire an acoustician, most experts say to add some soft stuff like curtains, pillows, big breasted women, etc....

BTW, I just recently treated the wall behind my Magnepans with some 3" thick, dimpled mattress foam and polyester batting covered with sarong material. It looks awesome and the sound certainly has changed for the better in as far as picking out detail (very crisp in a good way) and soundstage depth goes. It's quite a change.The reading from the RS meter using the Rives Test CD 2 says that I'm getting a pretty flat response throughout the frequency range at the listening position.

Spiff,
I initially bought the EP500, returned because it put me outside my HT budget

Essentially, want to spend <$800 on a sub if at all possible, unless that becomes unrealistic.

Ananth

HaHa. If only big breasted women weren't so darned expensive...

Mike,
I was looking into a DIY solution similar to this for sound control. Don't know enought about how effective it could be.

How does the MMG 1.6 compare to an Axiom speaker like the M80/M60? I was very curious about Maggies when evaluating the Axioms, but I was just happy with the M80s that I didn't want to proceed any further ...

BTW, your wall sound treatment appears very interesting ... I hope to do something similar later on this year.

Ananth

Ananth,

I think those Arualex treatments are pretty expensive and I'm not convinced that there is anything special about the material that they use. I could be wrong though.

In reply to:
How does the MMG 1.6 compare to an Axiom speaker like the M80/M60?

I'm almost afraid to answer that one for fear of coming off as an infidel here on the Axiom board (I do own some Axioms BTW). I won't try to compare the M80/M60 to the Maggies but I will tell you what I like about planar dipoles:

1.With box speakers, It always sounds to me like the sound is coming from..well...boxes situated in the room. Box less speakers, IMO, pull off the disappearing better than boxes.

2. I'm a nut for clear and precise imaging and sound stage dimensionality with realistically natural size. Sound stage depth and width is most impressive with boxless speakers and it's an illusion that I'm hooked on. I just love it when speakers make it appear as though the walls of the room have simply melted away.

3. IMO, boxless speakers seem to convey a better sense of space and outline and focus between different sounds from instruments and vocalist.

There are other good qualities but I don't want to sound like I'm waxing eloquent.

disclaimer to all: These are only one guys opinions and you know what they say about opinions....

In reply to:
BTW, your wall sound treatment appears very interesting

And far, far cheaper!

Yeah, but this time you're right.

I love Maggies, but they just don't fit into my life right now, in a multitude of ways. What mwc says is absolutely right on. (well, as far as I'm concerned.)

I first heard them back in the 70s and was just floored by them. They didn't fit into my life either for the last 25 years for one reason or another-too expensive, too big, etc. But when Magnepan started offering the MMG for $500 with a 30 day return I just couldn't resist. I've since gone from the MMG to the MG12 and now to the 1.6s and I've never looked back. I even sold some of my beloved separates to be able to get to the 1.6s.

Either VTF-3 or SVS will do the job. I have a VTF-3R and it's great. It looks nice and could double as an end table. The SVS units have lots of punch, though.

Another option would be using a 5.1 config and instead of rear surrounds get an EP500 or 600. I'm not a big fan of 7.1 from a price/performance standpoint. But some new movie soundtracks are now done in discrete 7.1. Some people like it.

But if you've already had the EP500 you know what that's like.

Acoustic treatment is very tricky. There are general rules, but so many uncertainties it's often hard to predict. Without an expert's analysis, I'd be conservative about spending money on acoustic treatment.

Ananth, I'd likely let the room treatment til last, after I had everything setup and plugged in. It wil be a small tweak in relation to all of the other things you have going on, but having everything set would make the final decisions more meaningful.

As far as the sub choice goes, I'll input where I have some experience. My SVS 20-39 PCi is terrific in a 16x22x10 room and I have alot of sub left. The cylinder is large, but what a great conversation starter! If you wanted one a tad smaller, the 25-31 PCi has more headroom, is 8" shorter and can be tuned down to 20 hz. If the cylinder design puts you off, the PB12-ISD is the box version of the PCi cylinders. I'd urge you to call SVS to dicuss. You may find (I believe this will be likely) that the PB10-ISD will be a good choice for this size room and you will save a little money .