Your kukua (help) is greatly appreciated. I'm trying to choose between the Denon AVR 3805 ($1079) or the HK AVR 635 ($799) to go with Axiom M60, VP150, QS8, M2, SVS PC+ 20-39. I realize the Denon has been out long enough for many reviews and the HK became avaiable 1/6/05. Has any body heard it yet? I have listened to the HK AVR 630 and liked it. I have not been able to hear the Denon. I haven't located a dealer here in Hawaii. I have read alot of good reviews. Usage is probably 60% movies and 40% music. Please any advice, pros or cons for either unit is very helpful. Mahalo

I don't have the 3805, but do own the 2805, which is similar, but with a little less power and bells and whistles. When I was shopping for a receiver, it was down to the Denon's, Yamahas, or Pioneer Elites. The Axiom folks mentioned that the sound from a Denon/Axiom combination is very good. The M60's are very efficient and easy to drive, so either of these receivers would be great. I can't say much for the HK as I've never owned that brand, but I have heard great things. Both designs are high current designs. I do recall something about how with the HK's there is a second or two delay when the receiver is trying to automatically switch or decode the incoming signal(surround modes). I would decide what features you want and go with that, I chose the Denon for the DTS-ES, Dolby EX and Pro Logic IIx abilities, as well as the Auto Setup and Room Parametric EQ with microphone. It helps take some of the guess work out of setting up the system for your room (sound levels,delay, etc...) I don't believe the HK's remote version of that is as sophisticated. Also, I believe with the 3805, you have to purchase the microphone, whereas it comes with my 2805.

good luck
Randy

I have the 3805 and personally love it. I'm not familiar with that particular H/K.

I'm surprised how much I'm enjoying the latest flavor of Dolby and DTS for music. One quibble that I didn't really fully appreciate before setting up my system is that you can't change the crossover on a channel by channel basis. I wish I could crossover my Mains at 40HZ and my center and surrounds at 100HZ. My understanding is that H/K receivers offer more flexible bass management in this regard.

Others here have said that H/K power reserves are good as well.

I know I'm really not much help, but I guess my point is that you're not likely to go wrong with Denon or H/K. If there's a decent way to print out features charts and compare them item by item, that's what I would likely do!

I can't speak to the HK 635, but recently picked up a HK 630 and absolutely love it. Lots of power, individual channel bass management, HK's Logic 7 decoding all add up to it being ideal for my system. The delay issue is a little annoying, but certainly not a big deal (IMO). The HK rep I dealt with when buying my unit (I got it on the HK Ebay auction site) assured me that they will have a software update that will solve the issue soon. I should note that they've been saying that for a while. If you want to save some money check out the Ebay site for a 630 if you haven't set your mind on a 635. Service was excellent and I saved a bundle. Good luck with your choice, I don't think you can go wrong with either Denon or HK.

M22's
VP150
QS4's
HK 630

I too am curious about the H/K 635. I have heard good things about the Denon, but I think I want to have the independent bass management (each channel) of the H/K's. I am hoping that the 635 has fixed some of the issues noted with the 630, but I have no idea.

If maximum flexibility with BM is a priority for you, you may want to go H/K.

Tough call. They're both really good receivers, and on the board we probably have a 50/50 split between HK and Denon. The Denon used to have more features than the 630 but the 635 is directly comparable feature-wise.

On paper the Denon has more power but the HK seems to be spec'ed even more conservatively and seems comparable in practice (assuming the 635 amp stage matches the 630).

I like HKs so would probably go with the 635 myself but if recommending for someone else I guess I would have to point out that while the 630 and 3805 are both well known quantities the 635 is brand new and doesn't have the same track record. Again, that wouldn't stop me but it's something to think about.

Everyone on the board with a Denon is going to be thinking "get the Denon" and all the HK owners will be thinking "get the HK"

You can't go wrong either way.

Given the lack of user experience thus on the new HK, you may have to print the specs out for both and do a compare. Pick out which is most important to you. Maybe wander into a local store or stores just to see them in person.

With these two choices, you can be confident with either one and you can make your decision on (favorite specs), price, features and looks. They will both perform well and they each have more than enough oomph (technical HT word) to power your equipment. I believe you could also rely on user input for the 630 for camparison purposes.

In reply to:

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assured me that they will have a software update that will solve the issue soon.

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The upgrade is here.

It adds DPLIIx and eliminates that pesky delay.

I've owned both H/K and Denon and like them both.
Unless the Denon has more features that you want, I would go with the H/K just from a price standpoint.
In my opinion they both make a great product.

Aloha,
Thanx for all of the help so far. I have come up with some more question, and I hope better ones.
I have been at this for many months, trying to decide between the Denon 3805 and the HK 630. And the Denon had edge out the HK just slightly. But now the HK 635 came along and through a bunch of sand in my ball of wax and I'm back guessing again. The new and improve HK 635 incorporated a lot of the things the HK 630 was missing. Auto setup, pandemic EQ, and most important to me was the video upconvert to component. Now it's really hard to decide. These are 20 points where these two units differ. The majority of the rest is nearly identical. Please I don't pretend to know much about this stuff, just a lot of web surfing and forum reading. Your guidance and knowledge is a big, BIG HELP.

Sorry, I can't get this to line up. If you could please just bear with me, and read the answers. The first is for the Harman Kardon AVR 635 and the 2nd is for the Denon.
HK 635 Denon 3805

1. Price ($) $799 $1079
2. Power (WPC) 75 X 7 120 X 7
3. Power Supplies 2 4
4. THD @ 8 Ohms 0.08% 0.05%
5. Signal to Noise Ratio (S/N) 102 dB 100 dB
6. Fan Yes No
7. Video Bandwidth 50 MHz 100MHz
8. DSP Proc (32-Bit) TI DA610 HammerHead SHARC
9. DAC's (24-bit/192-kHz) unknown Burr Brown
10. Base Mgmt (per) Channel/Source Source
11. Base Mgmt Multichannel Yes No
12. Multizones / Sources 2 (audio) 3 (2 Aud/2 Vid)
13. A-Bus ready Yes No
14. 24/192 Digital Input No Yes-DenonLink 3rd
15. Dual Surround Speaker(s) No Yes
16. Logic 7 Yes, w / 96kHz No
17. Headph w/2 Channel Dolby Yes No
18. HD Radio upgrade Slot Yes No
19. Looks Yes Okay
20. Track record New Tried & True

# Importance

1. HK - Price always matters
2-5. Denon - Slight edge on paper but HK always understates
6. Denon - No fan, no extra noise
7. Bandwidth - Denon plenty, HK adequate
8. This is of interest, but not sure how important. The Hammerhead SHARC is very highly praised. Denon uses them in the AVR 5805. However, the new chip in the HK, the Texas Instruments DA610 is the very chip that Dolby Laboratories used to develop Dolby Digital Pro Logic IIx. If it's good enough for Dolby Labs?
9. Denon - Burr Brown DAC's Highly regarded, HK unknown
10-11. HK - Base Management. Please explain to me how important this is, and heavily it should weight.
12 -13 Not to important to me. Denon video ability in zone 2 is a plus, A-Bus a plus for HK
14. Denon Link 3rd proprietary IEEE connection, nice is price comes down on DVD player or a 3rd party adapter becomes available for other firewire audio devices. Not sure how important this is?
15. Nice for 5.1 music to switch between QS8 and M2. Without swapping cables out.
16. HK - Logic 7 this is a biggy, or is it? Please advise would I miss it if I don't have it? I heard some who claim it's the best DSP, better than Dolby or DTS?
17-18. HK - Nice little extras, not sure if I'll ever use them?
19. HK - Just a little more stylish in my eyes, also can match other components in silver or black. Denon looks great too, can't decided silver or black. With HK I get both.
20. Denon - HK is a new product, close to the AVR 630, but still untested. Denon 3805 has many reviews and awards. This is tough.

I apologize if any of these are wrong, spelling included. Please correct me, spellin not included. I could really use all of your knowledge about what should be most important and carry the most weight in my decision. Thank you all who helped to educate the confused newbie. Just a reminder, I'm going to be using them with Axiom M60, VP150, QS8, and M2, coming this week I hope. And a SVS PC+ 20-39, already sitting there ready to be released from her box..
Mahalo again, and sorry for the long post

I can only speak to a few of those--I've got an H/K 525, so my knowledge about current recievers is quickly declining.


On my 525, I've never had the fan go on.

A-BUS seems to be mostly useless unless you're going for a
custom install with in wall speakers in your house. Also, nobody knows anything about it, and quesitons about it on these forums will be greeted with silence and chirping crickets.

The multizone on the 525 is confusing, poorly documented, and hard to implement.

The remote on the 525 stinks. The 635 may be improved.

On the DenonLink thing, you'll need a rather expensive Denon transport to use it (ie, expect to pay about as much for that as for the receiver).

The bass management on the H/K is really nice. Far less confusing than the Denon, at least as far as I can tell from the amount of questions. Also, since you're going to have a VP150, M60s, and QS8s, you may wish to take advantage of it; cross the VP150 at 80 Hz, the QS8s at 100 Hz, and M60s at 60 Hz. (these are just examples off the top of my head, people...) With my setup (M50s, QS4s, center channel playing through TV speakers), the need for this is exaggerated, but it's really nice to have. Plus, I don't have that LFE or LFE+Mains setting at all.

Though this won't help you one bit, I have owned both HK and Denon (currently Denon) and have been pleased with both. One side note though, please don't underestimate the HK power reserves based on the specs. I think the HK specs are almost overly conservative. --Andy

Aloha HI, and welcome to Axiom. I've also been studying the new 635 with interest and I'll comment on just a few of the points that you raise. First, in my view, among the points that you should disregard as having any significant difference are #s 4,5,7 and 9. Next, on #11, the 635 apparently does not have the bass management on the multichannel analog inputs for DVD-As/SACDs that the 525 and 630 have. The statement to the contrary in the manual appears to be an error and if so, this would mean that no bass management(the player, however, might have some bass management)or other digital processing such as Logic 7/DPLIIx, or the new equalization could be applied to DVD-As/SACDs. That new equalization system which is said to have been developed with much personal input from Dr. Toole seems very interesting so far. It takes both a farfield reading from above the seating position and a separate microphone reading from very close to the front speakers. Apparently the difference between the two is considered to be the irregularities caused by the room, which are then compensated. If the 635 is actually available at the price you saw, it would be a fine buy.