I'm looking at an Onkyo tx nr801 700 watt 7.1 and 2 Denon models avr 2805 and avr 3805. Which would current users reccommend? OR, is there any other suggestions on what to buy? My budget will be about $5000 for speakers and receiver. Oh yeah, was set on the Epic 60 package

1) What speakers do you have/plan on getting?
2) How big is your room?
3) Looking for a 5.1 or 7.1 system?
4) What's your budget?

It might be helpful to provide a bit more information.

What type of speakers? How many? What types of music or movies? How big is your room? What's your budget?

Without this info, I'd recommend this one:

I beat you to it Mark...

I've seen that Denon before. That's simply absurd.

The room size is 22'x 25'
Was kinda set on the Epic 60 set
Budget is about $5000 for speakers and receiver, cables, and such

Yeah, you were faster, but I had a photo.

..........P H O T O G R A P H S..........

And everyone here LOVES photos... so who REALLY won?

Love loud rock (Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains , and any Zepp, and Beatles) and action/drama movies

for God's sake, that thing looks like it could eat up most of my $5000 budget!!!!

Do you also need a cd/dvd player?

no I'll make due with the current players I have

Actually, your $5000 budget wouldn't cover it.

He's the deal - any of those receivers would be fine choices - you can't make a mistake. Also, some of the mid-upper end HK receivers would be OK as well. My personal choice would be the Denon 3805 because of the price/performance/value relationship and because of Denon engineeering. I like Denon. Go to the manufacturesrs websites (or Crutchfield) and look at the features of the units you mentioned. This will boil down to the features you want.

Also - have you talked to Axiom directly? If not, you should. With that size room they might suggest that you move up to the M80. I think the M60 would be OK, but they do this for a living.

You might also consider a1) the EP500 sub or 2) an SVS (25-31 PC+ tuned to 20hz) or HSU VTF-3 sub, also tuned down. You will be filling a large room with LFE and want to be sure you have enough sub. "Almost enough" is VERY disappointing and is the difference between a subwoofer and a subwhimper.

You should be able to come in well under $5K, unless, of course, you buy Mark a very expensive gift. I'll send you my bill in the morning.

Thanx, I have audiophile ears and almost no knowledge of the scientifics of sound, but the Denon 3805 was my choice because of the 7.1 and Denon's I've heard in the past, simply scrumptous sound. I like to hear the fingers scratching the guitar strings, and bells that ring and all that pureness in the tunes I listen to. Don't kow much about subwoofers either, not a real big fan of overwhelming bass.......

This is the first time in my life I've had the resources to buy anything of value stereowise and I'd like to do it right, my hubby thinks I'm nuts , but I've heard high-end systems before and have always dreamed of having the best sound possible in my living room... tired of rinky-dink Sony rack systems and the empty sound they produce.

In reply to:

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"Almost enough" is VERY disappointing and is the difference between a subwoofer and a subwhimper.

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I'll have to echo Ray here. You might get away with the Epic 60 but don't slight the sub. Especially if you like action movies.

I'm not a fan of overdone bass either but you do want a sub that is going to play low and clean and fill that big room. Best to get the better sub now while you have the bucks if you don't need any other components other than the receiver.

Even with just 8' ceilings?

ok, another question....we are thinking about pulling up the carpet and goin with hardwood floors, what would you change, if any thing, and why? (Denon 3805 and Epic 60's or 80's)

It's still a lot of space to fill with bass. I guess my recommendation is to get the best sub you can get now while the gettin' is good. Sometime down the road you are going to be more "audio" savvy and you don't want to find yourself with a bad case of subwoofer upgradeitis.

Do you mean regarding the electronics or the hardwood floor?

yeah , know whatcha mean, subs are pretty expensive

the system i'm choosing whardwood vs carpet, would you leave the carpet or go with the bare floors with lotsa rugs thrown? I ask , because I've heard there is too much bouncing of sound with hardwood floors

LOL! Allison, that Denon 5805 would not only eat up MOST of your $5000 budget, it would destroy it. The 5805 goes for $6000, I believe.

I second Ray's advice as far as giving Axiom a call and seeking their advice as to deciding between the 60s or the 80s. If you are indeed moving from a "rinky-dink Sony rack system" to the Axioms, either speaker will knock your socks off.

In a room that size, I'd seriously consider the EP500 subwoofer. If a matching sub doesn't matter to you, either a HSU or SVS sub would be worth checking into, as well. But the EP500 is brand new, and has some very attractive features.

You could get the M60s, VP150, QS8s, and EP500 for $2935. With the 5% discount for buying 5 items at one time (check with Axiom to be sure this discount is still available), that would come to $2789. If you substitute the M80s for the M60s, it comes to $3275, or $3112 with the discount. The 3805 goes for $1200 MSRP. That leaves between $688 and $1011 for any extras like cables, etc., and provides you with one helacious sound system.

I notice a nice "clarifying" effect (I really can't describe the exact change, but it was definitely better) when I added a 12x9 area rug to my room. It also seems to have made the M60s image much better.

Prior to that, it was bare hardwood between the speakers and I...

I'd suggest the Denon 3805 and upgrade the EP350 with the EP500.

I just put an order in for a H/K 635. I'll post a review next week after I receive it. I love the look of it thats for sure.

If the sound of the room is the only consideration, leaving the carpeting would probably be preferable to going with hardwood floors.

Show off the beautiful hardwood flooring. Throw an area rug in the room, and have the best of both worlds.

That's my plan - why have hardwood floors if they're covered in carpet? Just a nice "cross the middle range of the floor" area rug and let the wood shine at the edges.

(OK, to be honest, I was wondering if this was going to backfire on me... nice to see someone supporting the concept!!)

"That leaves between $688 and $1011 for any extras like cables, etc.,"
PLEASE PLEASE dont spend that much on cables.

Brady, there's an "etc." on the end of that sentence.

Oh! You mean like speaker wire.

I love hardwood floors and I have them throughout my home except in my listening room. I'm of the opinion that speakers are only going to sound as good as the room acoustics will let them. Lots of highly reflective surfaces can be a recipe for a fatiguing listening experience. If your heart is set on hardwood floors you can always put thick decorative rugs (padding under the rugs can't hurt either) and add lots of soft, plushy items to the room. But when considering how to get the best sound out of your system, the room shouldn't be ignored.

Oh I agree (and indeed, padding and plush pillows, etc.) are part of the picture. There's a delicate balance to be struck, I'd say, since many (most?) of us cannot simply dedicate a room to nothing else but HT. Mine is, essentially, the living room, and while it is largely turned over to a/v, it does need to have a modicum of sociability in it, and the aesthetics that go along with that. How much one way or another you handle things is a tricky balance (or, alternately, how cleverly you can make the room more and more a/v primed while not making it LOOK that way. i.e. rugs and plush).

Keeping in mind my own personal preference for hardwood, I'll suggest that maybe it would be a good idea to leave the carpeting until you have the speakers setup. Decide if you like the sound. If the high end is a little strong, I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy it without the carpet. If you feel that there's room to move - go for it.

Allison, welcome. Of the receivers that you listed, yes ,go with the 3805. You might also consider the new HK635, with a different type of automatic calibration and equalization developed by Dr. Toole's team. I agree with previous comments about getting an even more powerful sub. Also, don't worry about spending much on wire; there's no need to do so.

If you do go with the "hardwood floor with a carpet" look, see if it'll work to put the carpet at the place on the floor where you're liable to get a direct "reflection" of the sound. If you have a hard time locating that area for each speaker, sit in the "primo" position and have someone move a mirror along the floor till you see a reflection of the speaker.

This primary, direct reflection is likely to be the most notable one if the hardwood DOES cause a problem. I have the same issue here with hardwood floors throughout the whole house and will replace my current living room rug with one just a tad bigger to cover that point!

Well, since we're on the subject. There are some recommendations to be made about cables and speaker wire. Axiom offers both and they are good products.

My choices and usual recommendations are Blue jeans Cables interconnects using 1694 Belden wire with Canare connectors. Good price, good parts and excellent build quality. Nothing additional need be spent here. Be sure to get them long enough to allow you move around freely when working with the equipment.

Speaker wire can be had from the bulk wire department at Home Depot for about $.25/ft. They'll cut it to the length(s) you want. 14 ga should do fine. Again - more money isn't necessary.

i've got laminate floors with an area rug on it in the middle and my m60s (with the denon 3805) sound absolutely fantastic. especially with the Cars greatest hits i've got playing now! OH-ohOH!

Don't do what I did :

- hardwood floors
- big cushy rug in the center to control direct reflections
- highly reflective glass topped coffee table in the middle of the rug to undo all the good the rug does

that gives me a pretty good chuckle! isnt that always the way though, you do something like that and when you fire up the speakers youre like "SONUVA..."