I'm sure there is a post somewhere here. But can anyone give thoughts on the difference in sound between these two speaker sets. Have heard the 60's but not the 50's. Again thank you to Sean for the demo.
Everyone who's heard both pretty much agrees that the M60ti is a more detailed, cleaner sounding speaker. The M50ti is a more laid back, smoother sounding speaker.
Tom
Not a problem - its good to have another enthusiast visit occasionly. I found the Peter Green DVD at HMV.
Sean
Sean, wrong post?
Anyway, I think Spiff is correct, the reason I believe is because on the 50 the tweeter/midrange is combined into one driver. In the 60 and 80 the tweeters and midranges are seperated. Both great speakers, I just happen to luuuuuuv the 60 though...
Randy
M60's, VP150, EP350, 4 Qs8's
Denon 2805
"don't worry about the world ending today, it is already tomorrow in Australia"
Strictly speaking (I don't normally nitpick, but the coffee isn't working today
) given the crossover frequencies it is probably more correct to say that the woofer and midrange are combined on the 50s. I think the crossover between woofers and mid on the M60 is pretty low, around a couple of hundred Hz so on the M60 the 5-1/2" driver carries from a few hundred to a few thousand Hz while on the M50 the 6-1/2s have to cover right up to 2500-3000 Hz.
As the lone constantly active M50 owner (right?), someday I'm gonna have to hear some 60s, so either I can tell you all you're wrong, or spend the rest of my days quietly sobbing about clarity and soundstage.
I don't think it's a "better/worse" or right/wrong kind of thing. As far as I know we're only talking about a dB or two in the midrange so it would probably be trivial to EQ a 60 to sound like a 50 or vice versa.
I think you would find a surprising number of people prefer the 50s. Axiom should take Alan's 22s away for a while and give him some 50s until he learns to appreciate them
I think that's an excellent idea!
Hey Kenneth and Bridgman,
Ha, ha. But I luuuv my M22s and M80s! Actually, the M50ti has a very pleasing tonal balance (now are you happy??).
Besides, it's just a few dB in the midrange. The reason the M50's midrange isn't quite as linear is that the M50's drivers are a larger diameter (6.5 inches) than the M60's dedicated midrange driver (5.25 inches). Consequently, the off-axis dispersion of the M50's woofers isn't as linear as the M60s' midrange. In other words, the M50s' woofer/midrange rolls off more quickly at the top of its range (midrange) than do the M60s. And since our subjective impression of a speaker's tonal balance through the bass, midrange and highs is formed by not just the on-axis direct sound from the speaker but by the first reflections from the side walls in most rooms, which arrive a few milliseconds after the direct sound on-axis, the overall tonal content of the M60s has just a touch more midrange content.
If you did '"near-field" comparisons of the two models, sitting really close so that you only heard the first arrivals (the direct sound minus the lateral reflections), I suspect that minor tonal difference would disappear.
Regards,
I feel better now.
What, did you put the speakers right next to your couch or something?
>>And since our subjective impression of a speaker's tonal balance through the bass, midrange and highs is formed by not just the on-axis direct sound from the speaker but by the first reflections from the side walls in most rooms, which arrive a few milliseconds after the direct sound on-axis, the overall tonal content of the M60s has just a touch more midrange content.
Alan, thanks for stressing this point. I was reading a couple of your other posts last night and it was like a light coming on. I never understood before why anyone cared so much about off-axis response when we all tend to hog the sweet spot and sit on axis -- now it all makes sense.
Thanks for all the great info and advice.
John
No Kenneth, You Are Not Alone! There are others of us out there, or is it "out here"? At any rate there are more of us who understand and embrace the differences.
So let me get this straight...the m60 have more mids off axis than the 50s? Correct.?
Yup, that's my take on Alans' statement too. I don't know how familiar you are with the M2 M22 vs M3 debate, but they pretty well parallel the M60 M50 situation in most respects. There are performance plots published that show the on-axis and off-axis frequency responses of the two speaker types and using them as an example that hopefully isn't too much of an apples to oranges thing, they indicate that the M22 dosen't begin to fall off in off-axis response until about 10K or so, while the M3 began way back around 4K.
Well then if the mids from m22 start to fall off around 10k at what frequency do the mids from m60's and m50's start to fall off.....off-axis? Also will the db level have an effect on this process? Anyone know....Alan.
Yes, Alan, and of course, Ian; Thank you so much for those plots given to us during the holidays showing what certainly appears to be the on-axis curves of the M50 and M60, they are greatly appreciated, and without question most helpfull. But, plots are like potato chips; nobody can digest just one. So, uh.. er.. is the whole family of plots available? (Wow, that's a lot to ask for, innit?)