Surrounds and DVD-A/SACD - Axiom Message Boards

I want to add surrounds to my setup. Recently got a Denon 2200 so I can listen to DVD-A and SACD. Current setup is Denon 3803, Denon 2200, Klipsch RB5 II's main, Klipsch RW12 sub, and Klipsch RC-35 center, Toshiba 32HF84 HDTV, plus other misc audio.

I was going to get the Klipsch RS-35 as my surronds but due to space limitations they are too large. I have been reading good reviews of the Axiom speakers (QS8 or 4). But I have also read that for DVD-A or SACD, direct-radiating speakers for surrounds sound better.

Thoughts?!?!??!?!?

I listen to SACD and DVD-A. I've never heard either with direct radiating surrounds, so it would be unfair for me to offer a comparison. But, I'm perfectly content with what I'm getting from my QS8s with Hi Rez disks.

Fred, welcome. Note that Alan discusses speaker placement, including the monopole vs multipole surround question, in the new newletter which came out wednesday.

Hey Fred, I think your going to get a mix of responses on this question. Many people use bookshelves for rears for purposes of DVD-A and SACD and also good production for HT. However, many on this website have mentioned that the Axiom Qs8's do a great job for the high rez stuff, and as we all know, are 2nd to none for HT surround..

Randy

Where can I get a copy of the newsletter. I wasn't registered on the site last week?

Fred, click on "newsletter" at the top of the pages until you get the Audiofile signup box to put your name and e-mail address. I'm uncertain how long they take to send it out to a new subscriber, but I assume that it isn't long.

I couldn't find it on the site. PM me your email address and I'll send it to you...

Okay, just in case it takes some time here it is.

I am a Hi Rez nut and own over 20 DVD-As and just recently bought about 20 SACDs. I can tell you, the QS8s are amazing with this stuff. Not all sounds in 5.1 music are meant to be direct, actually, most of the sounds are diffuse and so a QS8 type speaker is recommended to diffuse the sound.

QS8's are not dipole in the same way that many dipoles are. Because the QS8's are quadpolar and have the mids pointing up and down, the sound is able to convey a similar sound to a direct speaker. I am guessing the Klipsch surrounds are able to come close to this as well since they are tripolar.

But watch out, if you get the QS8's you may be so impressed you will want all your speakers to be Axioms.

Thanks for all the input and the link to the newsletter. I am anticipating getting the Axiom surrounds. A lot of what I had read said to get direct-radiating (monopole) speakers for DVD-A or SACD but you guys have put my mind at ease. With my application the wider dispersion of the Axiom will fit better with the layout of my room and placement of the Axiom surrounds.

It's a confusing topic, isn't it ? Direct radiating surround speakers are recommended for DVD-A/SACD because the alternative from any other brand is dipoles and they apparently have some major suckage when listening to DVD-A and SACD. The quadpolars (QS's) don't need that out-of-phase wiring so they seem to play well in both worlds.

Engineers do not use diffused sound when mixing a DVD-A or SACD.

The bottomline, it is a preference, and you really should take the time to listen to diffused surrounds vs. direct radiating....especially when it comes to hi-res music.

Agreed. My QS8s only arrived a couple of days ago (replacing M2s) so I don't have any real experience comparing direct vs. quadpolar speakers on DVD-A/SACD.

If you're buying a system exclusively for 5 channel audio then directs are probably the way to go (less expensive, match the equipment used for mixing) but in a combined HT / music system I think the question is "do I need two different sets of surround speakers or can the QSs do a good job with both kinds of content ?".

The answer from other posters so far seems to be "the QSs do a good job with both kinds of content". Does that seem reasonable ?

I agree that some people (Alan included IIRC) actually prefer quadpolars to direct speakers for 5 channel music, but I don't know enough about the issues there to comment intelligently...

Listening to both is always good, but it does help to understand what you are listening for. I picked some really crappy speakers before I learned how to listen for the things I would care about when I got 'em home

In reply to:
The answer from other posters so far seems to be "the QSs do a good job with both kinds of content". Does that seem reasonable ?

Does that mean direct radiators don't?

I am not argueing which is better for any particular person. For music and movies, there pros and cons for direct vs diffused.

The one consistent piece that I have experienced and read is that diffused is more preferred when placement is an issue.

Even that is a tough question. I think there is pretty good agreement that diffuse surrounds do a better job of delivering what "the system is supposed to do", ie providing the ambience and illusion of a large theater to a listener in a small room.

There is probably much less agreement about what listeners actually PREFER, unfortunately. Some like the effect of direct surrounds, others prefer diffuse surrounds. The QS speakers do seem to give all of the benefits of diffuse surrounds along with many of the benefits of direct surrounds, which seems like a pretty good compromise to me.

I agree wholeheartedly that diffuse surrounds are much more tolerant of placement -- at least the QSs, they're the only ones I have placement experience with.

In reply to:
diffuse surrounds do a better job of delivering what "the system is supposed to do"....

That is a whole other discussion.

Like I posted before.....DVD-As and SACDs are not mixed with a diffused sound field....a diffused sound is not the intent for hi-rez music.

Sorry, you are correct. I meant "what the system is supposed to do when running as a home theater playing DVD movies".

hehehehe...I still think that is another discussion.

IMO, It is easier to achieve a diffused sound with multiple direct radiating speakers than it is to create pinpoint sound with a single or multiple multi-polar speakers.

I listen to 80% music and 20% HT. The placement will be as described in most diagrams that I have seen (directly to the side of the listener or slightly behind). That is the only place for them due to my room. Also, they have to be pretty small due to wall limitations. I won't be able to have both direct/multipolar (best of both worlds) due to these limitations so I will have to decide which is better.