I've been reading the forums (and posting occasionally when I have something to contribute) for 6 months or so, and I've finally decided get a new system. It helps a bit that I will be receiving a profit sharing check from the company I work at in a few weeks.

I am (or at least was) pretty convinced that I only wanted a stereo system with a subwoofer. I've always wanted a decent system and now that I can afford one, I'm really looking forward to the purchase! Based on all that I've learned from the hours and hours of reading these forums and others, I've decided that I would get the M60's for the fronts and either the EP175 or EP350 sub. I figured I'd pair that up with a Harman/Kardon HK 3480 for some nice stereo sound.

Anyway, here's my dilemma. I really just want a stereo system for now because if and when I go the home theater route, I'll probably just get an additional system for that and move the stereo into the office. But some recent posts about "phantom" center channel started to get me thinking. Since I would already have the mains and sub, and I could phantom the center channel, all I would have to do would be get a HT receiver and I would have most of a full HT system. I figure I could watch some movies in phantom 3.1 and if I liked that, it might push me into the HT route sooner. Initially, the only additional expense would be spending a few hundred more on a 5.1 receiver.

There are a few cons to this line of reasoning as I see them though:
- Instead of paying about $300-$350 for a nice 120 watt stereo receiver, I'll spend about $500 for a nice HK 230 50 watt (7.1 channel) receiver. If all I really do is listen to music (which is how I started this anyway), I'm going to have less of a stereo system for more money. Will I miss the extra 70 watts? Maybe not, especially since I'll have a powered sub.
- The receiver will be somewhat more complicated than a simple stereo receiver. Again, if I don't wind up utilizing the HT aspect, it will just be a waste.
- Phantom 3.1 as I call it might not really sound that good. Again, a waste.

Oh yeah, the obligatory layout. This intended room is about 22 by 13 with 8 foot tall ceilings. The couch and TV/Stereo around placed along opposite sides of the long wall approximately in the middle, i.e., the listener would sit a little less than 13 feet from the TV/Stereo. There are two pretty large openings to other rooms on the wall with the TV and stereo at either end. Another way to say that is the openings are pretty close to the corners along the 22 foot wall.

I guess my question is, if I go the mini-HT route with 2 mains, a phantom center, and a sub, will that sound much better than just the TV's built in speakers? My guess is probably, but I don't really know. Or, should I just get the stereo, love it and the Axioms, and start planning the dedicated home theater room.

Ok, if you've made it this far, let me apologize for the rambling nature, but I appreciate that you stuck it out this long. Also, any other comments on the proposed setup, receivers, speakers, whatever is of course also appreciated.

Thanks.

Whoa, tough call. IMO an HT system with phantom center is not going to sound any different from hooking your DVD player into the 3480. Remember that "phantom center" is just mixing the center content into the two mains -- and that happens on the stereo outputs of your DVD player anyways.

My first thought is to keep things pure. If you want a stereo system, get the 3480 and M60s and forget about the sub. The M60s have all the bass you need for music, they just don't do explosions, dinosaur footsteps and atmospheric bass drones all that well.

If you think your stereo is going to get rolled into the home theater in the future, get an AV receiver today plus the M60s. Get a sub only if you have budget for the big honkin' sub you're going to want for the HT in the future.

If you're pretty sure the stereo will stay separate, go for the 3480 and forget the sub for now.

That's my 2 cents anyways

If you're looking at spending $500 for the 230, you're spending too much. You should be able to find a 33x or a 43x near that price (although, granted, it may be refurbished). I only spent $600 on my 525 about a year ago. Then again, maybe they've raised the prices.

Fred, it's true that you can use the "phantom" center at least temporarily and save instead of buying a center speaker. Note John's point that you already experience what a "phantom" center is when you listen to any sort of monaural sound(e.g. a news broadcast)on a stereo setup or when, for example, a singer is placed in the dead center of the two speakers in stereo recordings.

Also as Ken noted, you can get a good HT receiver for less than that(e.g. a Pioneer 1014 for about $350)and it may be more cost effective. More important than the center question, however are side surround speakers, which add significantly to even 2-channel CDs by extracting the ambience naturally present in them to varying degrees and steering it to the surrounds, where it belongs. This is what will add to the overall cost.

Like others have said, you should be able to get a HK AVR 235 for $350. I just did at jr.com - after I auditioned a 3480 and decided I liked the sound of the 235 better even for stereo. The HK seems to have better DACs (digital to analog converters) than my <$100 CD player. Also, some friends of mine just upgraded to a Yamaha HTR 5740 AV receiver and it make their old DVD player come alive because we connected it throught the optical toslink connection and used the DACs in the receiver. So, unless you have a DVD/CD player that definitely has better DACs than the HK AVR 235 (or 230 if you can find one - you can get them really cheap) I would say there is no downside to going with the AVR. In stereo the 235 puts out 65 watts, but HK rates their receivers very conservatively (the 235 has significantly more power than the 100 wpc Yamaha) so power isn't really an issue if you stay with HK.

Thanks for all the thoughtful and detailed replies.

Bridgeman - I like your point of "keeping it pure". I think I'll do that. I'm still torn about the sub -- even though you're probably right in that I don't need one. Isn't more always better?

Foghorn - Also, thanks for the reminder on jr.com. Folks have posted before about that site and I kinda forgot about it. Regardless of which receiver I purchase, jr.com certainly seems to have much better prices than the places I was looking.

Might want to check out http://www.onecall.com as well. They usually beat jr.com prices.

More is always better... unless you find six months down the road that spending a couple of hundred $$ extra (or even the same $$ differently) would have been a much better fit with your future HT needs but now your money is already spent.

I bought a sub for music and now that I have been bitten by the HT bug I wish I had spent the money differently. At least I had an excuse -- I bought the sub to use with M2s not M60s

By all means get a sub now if you're willing to do the research and spend the $$ to buy the sub you're going to want with M60s and your future home theater -- just don't buy "the right sub for today" unless you enjoy selling used equipment. An inexpensive sub isn't going to give you much benefit with M60s anyways. An EP175 is great with bookshelf speakers but I wouldn't bother pairing an EP-175 with M60s.

IMO the right strategy is the one that lets you evolve incrementally. I would go with an AV receiver (AVR230 or better) and the M60s to start, and only add a sub when you're ready to get an EP350 or better. The M60s can carry most of the low frequencies just fine without help, you want a sub that goes real deep into the bass.

Were you thinking about moving the m60s to the office in the future or just the stereo receiver ?

Ramzing - Thanks for the link. <bookmarked>

Bridgman - Yeah, I'm intending that when I do go the HT route this entire system will make it's way to the office. In fact, it might even just start out there. When the time comes, I'll start from scratch for the HT. This is kind of a lame excuse, but I'd really like a HT system, but the living room floorplan and maybe more importantly the OWMBO isn't condusive to a bunch of speakers.

I've read as many threads on these boards as I could find about the relative merits of a sub with the m60's for 2 channel listening. And the general consensus to me seemed be that the more liked having a sub than not. I thought about *not* getting the sub right away and seeing if I felt I was missing not having it, but then I figured I would probably be satisfied, but would never know what I was missing. You know that old demon upgradeitis can torture one's soul.