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Hello,

I've been lurking around on a few sites reading up gaining some knowledge on the different areas that make up a home theater. Now I think I am ready to take the plunge. I wanted to see what some more experienced people think of it, and where I could improve on it or cut some costs out.

My ultimate Home Entertainment system would comprise of three different areas. And the requirements for each area.

Sound- Crystal clear, with deep bass and an enveloping surround

Video- HD quality, widescreen, >50 inch diagonal

Computer- Able to surf the web, record TV programs, and play some video games (World of Warcraft)

I want to integrate all three into a pretty awesome theater. Here are my plans so far.

For sound I am planning on using the Yamaha Rxv – 2500 for the A/V Reciever,
For speakers I am planning on using all Axiom with M22tis as the fronts the V-150 center, QS8s for surround and a HSU sub. I hear this is a great midrange receiver, I also like it because I eventually want to upgrade to 7.1 sound, moving the m22tis to the rear and getting the M60 floorstanders as the fronts.

My question is this will I be able to get enough sound quality out of the HTPC to fully take advantage of this system?

For the Video I am planning on making a DIY projector. I am pretty confident that I can make a really good LCD projector on the cheap for about $700. I will be using a ProView 15.4" Widescreen LCD Display to project the image. This monitor has a native resolution at 1280x800. Reading other DIY projects they have made projectors with diagonals of 100 inches at HD quality. As for the screen itself I will either make a high gain screen using some sand blasted plexi glass and reflective paper, or just black out cloth from Jo-ann fabrics stretched across a wooden frame.

For the HTPC the brains of the operation I plan on using just a standard atx case as it will be tucked somewhere out of sight. For a processor I am thinking a Amd athalon 939 3500+. Coupled with a gig of ram, Hauppauge 150 capture card, a sea gate 80 hard drive for programs and a 200g for storage. A Samsung TS-H552B DVD+R/w for the dvd player. For video a geforce 6600 GT will be used, and for audio M-Audio Revolution 7.1.

Here is where my second question comes in, Do I even need the sound card? Because this will be connected to the Receiver couldn’t that do all my sound processing?

I will probably be building this entire system over a 2 year period, doing each category individually starting with the HTPC and the Proview monitor which will later be tore down to be used in my projector. Than the last step would be the Sound system.

Some rough guesses on all the costs
HTPC
1400
Projector
700
Sound
2300
Software and cables
300

Total system Cost- $4600

I might have to lower my standards on the sound because that takes up over half my budget.

What do you guys think about this?

1. The general consenus is that the compression used to store sound/video (MPEG, MP3, etc.) comes at a cost to quality. But I still think it's cool.
2. You'll need the sound card to get a digital signal OUT of your PC to go INTO the receiver. You'll most likely need some adapter to go from the sound card's miniplug to a rca/coax type cable.

Rather than a HTPC for day to day watching... why not just pick up a cheap $50 DVD player? Even the one we got mom-in-law for Christmas two years ago has s-video out. Not sure what this fascination with movies coming off a computer is... it's a lot more expensive to put together a system to be able to play back video with any sort of quality than it is to just get the cheapest Koss/Daytek DVD-P on the market.

Unless it's the "just 'cause I can" factor.

Bren R.

I want it to be hooked up to a HTPC for a number of reasons:

1. To use as a DVR to playback Recorded Television Programs
2. With the correct Software and configuration, you can play back dvds better any standalone dvd player can.
3. All of my music is stored on the computer.
4. I just think It would be cool to search the internet on a 100 inch screen.

In reply to:
2. With the correct Software and configuration, you can play back dvds better any standalone dvd player can.

Better? What do you mean by better? This is a pretty bold blanket statement. I'm assuming you mean better controls, ability to enter chapter information, that sort of thing.

I sincerely hope you haven't been mislead to believe that a DVD drive and PC combo somehow gets a better video signal off DVD media than a settop DVD-P will?

Bren R.

I agree with Bren, using HTPC may result in better configuration options, and having better aspect ratio controls. However, if you have a DVD player with a top notch scaler, a pc can't touch the video quality.

I think the real issue is not how the data is retrieved from the disc, but rather how it is sent to the display device. With a standalone DVD player, it sends 480P to the projector and lets the projector scale it to it's native resolution. With a HTPC, the scaling is done in the computer and then sent to the projector in it's native resolution. So, the real issue is quality of scaling ability. Though I here that some recent PJs have some great scaling abilities, it is generally thought that PCs do a better job than the PJs with scaling. Beyond that, I can't give particulars. I just wanted to relay the impression I've found while digging around the HTPC forum over at AVS.

This guide has led me to believe otherwise.
Through the right configuration of my PC, I can get a better image quality than a $50 standalone dvd player.

In reply to:
Through the right configuration of my PC, I can get a better image quality than a $50 standalone dvd player.

Keep in mind, though, that "the right configuration" will cost over $1000 (even if you factor in existing PC parts, you had to buy them at some point, right?). Heck you even mention having $1400 set aside for this.

So I would agree than a $1000+ HTPC WILL outperform a $50 DVD player.

I only mention this because I was thinking about going the HTPC route, but since I don't use MP3s, have a DVR built in to our Dish satellite system, and I don't think that I will play games on my projector (tried it before with an old projector, and 1st person shooter games make me feel sick after about 5 minutes at that large of a size)...

For me, that didn't justify the cost of a HTPC, and I already have the hardware for a HTPC minus the video capture card and remote. PLus, when I ran the idea past my wife, she said, "You mean I would have to wait for Windows to boot before I could watch a movie?!?!"

I will stick with a nice quality DVD player for my system for now, and when a really good HTPC that can do it all (HD-DVD or BLU-RAY as well) for less than $500, then I will jump on it. But I think that we are all a few years away from that.

With all of that said, if you want DVR, MP3 (although many DVD players offer this to some degree), gaming, and like to tinker with PCs, then go get a HTPC. Personally, I think that your money would be better spent on a real HD projector and not a DIY. Then again, it is most likely the DIY projector (and the fact that it uses a flat panel monitor) that is the requirement for the HTPC since it natively outputs through the VGA port to the VGA input on the monitor.

I'll put my Z3's scaler, which I don't own yet

, up against any HTPC set up, or DVDO for that matter....

Don't mean to reel you in Dabingles... but just before you run off on this based on what a pretty biased site says (you expected HTPCnews to give you a balanced story?).

For what you're doing, if I understand it right, you're building your own projector out of a 15" LCD monitor and planning to project it onto a home made screen. Chances are you probably want to use a PC based solution (besides everyone understands them, and it's the easiest way to get a source into a computer monitor, strangely enough)

This really sounds like a Slashdot (oops, /. ) type project. As for HD quality - what is HD quality? You will be sending a 1600x1200 signal to a monitor and beaming a light source through it. Yes, the signal will be a high resolution, but if even professional manufacturers can't get a good contrast ratio on their projectors, I'm not so sure yours will fair very well. You can put a checkmark beside "high res" on your list of cool features, but I'm not so sure how great the final product will be.

As for video off a DVD, that's easy to demystify. It's an NTSC signal. MPEG-2 compressed, 720x480 at D1 pixel aspect. To get that to a projector at some resolution other than standard D1, it has to be scaled. Whether a player, a computer or the projector itself scales the image, it's still scaled. So it's hard to know where this "HD resolution" would be coming from... I can scale an NTSC source up to 4,000,000x3,000,000 square pixels, at Sooper-Dooper HD res, and it's just going to get either softer or chunkier depending how it's scaled.

I understand the "cool" factor of building it yourself (I built my own arcade game cabinet) and that you want to be able to play games on a large scale and use it as a PVR (which again is pretty tough - hard to get drives that will sustain high data rates for entire shows), but in the end, you may be very disappointed with how things turn out.

Ultimately your decision, but it seems like more of a science project than a solution.

Bren R.

Here is a fellow AVS-er that has done numurous tests between his standard DVD player vs a properly configured HTPC. In his site he has a capture of the same media in a DVD player vs his HTPC.

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/HTPC.html

There are many more AVS-er that have done this comparison...including me and we got a better picture using a properly configure HTPC vs a standard DVD using the same projector. A lot of this comparisons can be clearly seen on projectors because we blow up the image to 80-120 inches. You won't see it in standard 20-43 inch TV. In this case size does matter.

HTPC
matching output resolution to projector giving a 1:1 mapping so no scaling occurs. This then uses the technology inherent in software DVD players where hardware technology (chips) and current algorithyms can present the best picture possible. The software is the scaler in this case. Software such as DSCALER, FFDShow and NVDVD are some names that produce these.

DVD player
today there are DVD players that are top notch with built in scalers such as Faroudja or Pixelworks. Players such as the Bravo D2 or the Panasonic RP82. Alas not all DVD players are created equal. Chances are that $50 DVD player you bought mother-inlaw does not have as great as a picture as a properly configured HTPC player or any of the DVD players above.

In reply to:
This really sounds like a Slashdot (oops, /. ) type project. As for HD quality - what is HD quality? You will be sending a 1600x1200 signal to a monitor and beaming a light source through it. Yes, the signal will be a high resolution, but if even professional manufacturers can't get a good contrast ratio on their projectors, I'm not so sure yours will fair very well. You can put a checkmark beside "high res" on your list of cool features, but I'm not so sure how great the final product will be.

Here is a primer on HTDV
http://www.physics.udel.edu/wwwusers/watson/student_projects/scen167/ateam/HDTV/

A few of us actually are ISF calibrate our sets. If not the Avia or Home Theater Essensial DVD can help calibrate your set or projector.

In reply to:
I can scale an NTSC source up to 4,000,000x3,000,000 square pixels, at Sooper-Dooper HD res

So you didn't notice a difference of quality of the same source coming out of your Sooper-Pooper than your mother-in-laws DVD player?

Get a great DVD player like a Denon 2910 or 1910 and use Apple Airport Express to wirelessly send your music to your receiver from your PC. Then just use your PC that you already own to surf the internet. You also should look into getting a real projector. I cannot beleive that a $700 DIY projector would look any good when you can get an Infocus or Sanyo for $1000-1500.

Projectors by Optoma, Infocus, Epson, Benq have street prices below $1000.

In reply to:
Here is a fellow AVS-er that has done numurous tests between his standard DVD player vs a properly configured HTPC. In his site he has a capture of the same media in a DVD player vs his HTPC.

So what we're looking at is some extra signal processing (unsharp masking) we used to do the same thing in film by shooting a blurred positive (slide) and two sharp negatives, you superimpose them on high contrast paper (like Kodak Polycontrast IV RC) - you get blurred fields of similar color (like subtle face tones), yet you get crisp edge detail. It's a great way of selectively blurring blotchy skin tones, etc - in video it works similarly, regaining lost edge detail without making the entire picture pixelated. That's great, and will a cheap projector do this? Maybe not. But for the extra cost of a HTPC, you could probably bump yourself up to a good projector and DVD-P with DVI or component connectivity.

In reply to:
matching output resolution to projector giving a 1:1 mapping so no scaling occurs. This then uses the technology inherent in software DVD players where hardware technology (chips) and current algorithyms can present the best picture possible. The software is the scaler in this case. Software such as DSCALER, FFDShow and NVDVD are some names that produce these.

It's misleading to say no scaling occurs. It occurs in the software signal processor. It's just been moved from whatever is inside the cheap projector to the PC processor. You're still blowing up a 720x480D1 signal to 1600x1200 (or whatever res your projector runs at) - you're just sending it a more contrasty image to make up for the inherent softening. You can't blame a DVD-P for outputting an NTSC signal just because you want to use it on something developed for computer output.

In reply to:
today there are DVD players that are top notch with built in scalers such as Faroudja or Pixelworks. Players such as the Bravo D2 or the Panasonic RP82. Alas not all DVD players are created equal. Chances are that $50 DVD player you bought mother-inlaw does not have as great as a picture as a properly configured HTPC player or any of the DVD players above.

Again, the Daytek player puts out an NTSC (television) signal. If someone is looking for a signal that isn't at a standard broadcast resolution, something in the chain better be good at scaling it, be it software, or hardware inside the projector. If the projector was worth it's salt, it would look just fine whether fed from a Mac G5 or a Koss My First DVD Player. The only thing that site you sent shows me is that the projector was a low-end consumer/business model that does a terrible job of upres'ing.

In reply to:
Here is a primer on HTDV

*laughs* Thanks for the primer. I work in broadcast.
There's no HDTV standard... 1080i? 720p? and I was asking more where he thought this Hi-Def signal was coming from... any DVD is just standard television resolution and worse, it's highly compressed MPEG-2 video.

In reply to:
So you didn't notice a difference of quality of the same source coming out of your Sooper-Pooper than your mother-in-laws DVD player?

You missed the point. No matter how much you scale up standard resolution off a DVD, you don't unlock hidden resolution on the disc, you interpolate the information that's already there. Any signal can be scaled to any size, but it's only as good as the original video stream.

Bren R.

Yeah I think buying a commercial projector might be the best and safest bet. I have just been reading at DIY audio and many people have gotten some really impressive results such as, this, or this or even this
The last one is probably the best one I have seen. The LCD I plan to use has a higher native resolution, response time and contrast ratio.

In reply to:
Projectors by Optoma, Infocus, Epson, Benq have street prices below $1000.

But are those projectors HD?

HOLY CRAP! Bren/Saturn.
When I get the money to upgrade my viewing capabilities, will one of you guys come down and help?

I'm scared now.

In reply to:
When I get the money to upgrade my viewing capabilities, will one of you guys come down and help? I'm scared now.

It's really not that daunting a task... you just have to realize what the limitations of technology are, and right now is not the time to be buying displays (sad but true) - everyone's still got their hat in the ring on the HD standard... or non-standard - the letters HD mean nothing anymore - they're used in so many ways, they've lost all meaning... hell, the middle setting on an APS snapshot camera has now been renamed "HD" - it's wider than classic (1.5:1 ratio) prints. (actually, the neg is shot at "classic" it's just tagged to be cropped at print time to look wider - and gets grainy)

The HDTV debacle makes VHS vs Beta look like a fight over where to put the couch. And until a real standard gets pinched off by whoever has the strongest marketing campaign, I'll stick to my 4:3 27" tube TV. I am pulling for 1080i - I prefer an interlaced display. Of course, the skateboard video kids and music video producers for "ExTr33m Bl1nG" mook rock-rap bands you'll never hear of like shooting progressive to give their $1000 Panasonic handicams "film cred, yo!"

Geez, I've been taking my share of rants lately - there's so much marketing BS that gets swallowed that I feel like my head will explode every time I hear it.

Bren R.

I thought 1080P was the HD standard. Did I miss something?

1080p is not the standard, it's just currently the contender with the best resolution. Also in the ring are 1080i and 720p.

Oh okay. I thought the new wave of 19xx by 10xx HDTV sets was the standard. Isn't that what Blu-ray and HDDVD are gonna be? I'm so confused. So if you buy a 1080P set and 720p becomes the standard then your TV set will downconvert the signal to a 720p picture? Or what about if you have a TV with a native resolution of 720p or 1080i and 1080p DOES become the standard. Does your 720p (or 1080i) TV become as useless as a standard tube tv?

Video scaling, my friend. And lots of it. The people with the 1080p should be ok, except for the fixed pixel types. Oh wait, that's almost everyone, these days. Oops!

There's a reason I ain't buying yet.

Yes, that there is no standard.

Which is my point exactly.

Bren R.

In reply to:
*laughs* Thanks for the primer.

I'm just being an ass as usual.

Yes you are in broadcast field. We all know that.

In reply to:
So what we're looking at is some extra signal processing (unsharp masking) we used to do the same thing in film by shooting a blurred positive (slide) and two sharp negatives, you superimpose them on high contrast paper (like Kodak Polycontrast IV RC) - you get blurred fields of similar color (like subtle face tones), yet you get crisp edge detail. It's a great way of selectively blurring blotchy skin tones, etc - in video it works similarly, regaining lost edge detail without making the entire picture pixelated

True...but step back from the picture and look... even though technology is used to smoothen out the picture...to ones eyes it still does look better in most cases. Many AVS-er including I have done many many get togethers and projected many DVD vs HTPC configurations and most of the time the crowd does always pick the HTPC configured picture. Heck come over to Toronto and I will gladly show a A-B test. Heck even bring over that highly praised DVD player your talking about. So you are saying we are doing mass hysteria again?

Should I take out my Kimber cable again?

In reply to:
It's misleading to say no scaling occurs. It occurs in the software signal processor. It's just been moved from whatever is inside the cheap projector to the PC processor. You're still blowing up a 720x480D1 signal to 1600x1200 (or whatever res your projector runs at) - you're just sending it a more contrasty image to make up for the inherent softening. You can't blame a DVD-P for outputting an NTSC signal just because you want to use it on something developed for computer output

I am not misleading anyone. Re-read what I wrote. Of course scaling occurs...on the HTPC...as I clearly stated. As I said earlier not all chips are created equal. You either use whats in the HTPC or whats on the DVD player or whats on the projector itself.

In reply to:
You missed the point. No matter how much you scale up standard resolution off a DVD, you don't unlock hidden resolution on the disc, you interpolate the information that's already there. Any signal can be scaled to any size, but it's only as good as the original video stream.

So your saying the $50 DVD should have the same quality picture as the $1000 HTPC? Even though many of us actualy see a difference...were making it up. The point is not unlocking hidden resolution but cleaning up the current signal...taking out noise if any..smoothing out edges...etc.

In reply to:
Again, the Daytek player puts out an NTSC (television) signal. If someone is looking for a signal that isn't at a standard broadcast resolution, something in the chain better be good at scaling it, be it software, or hardware inside the projector. If the projector was worth it's salt, it would look just fine whether fed from a Mac G5 or a Koss My First DVD Player. The only thing that site you sent shows me is that the projector was a low-end consumer/business model that does a terrible job of upres'ing.

It comes back to your original statement which I addressed.

In reply to:
Rather than a HTPC for day to day watching... why not just pick up a cheap $50 DVD player? ...it's a lot more expensive to put together a system to be able to play back video with any sort of quality than it is to just get the cheapest Koss/Daytek DVD-P on the market

dabingles and turbodog1 was exploring the feasability of having a HTPC to give a better picture than the standard DVD player. And yes they do. You can use your insight and technology being in "broadcasting" but still a HTPC still will look better than that $50 DVD you are talking about. Yes it is more expensive but the people exploring that option knows full well of that cost and it was not an issue.
You should get out of your god complex...and actually check out some of the technology out there. Yes you are in broadcasting but you are not an expert in the technology of scalers..neither am I.

Not only are some supposed 'experts' on here are deaf...but I guess blind too.

In reply to:
dabingles and turbodog1 was exploring the feasability of having a HTPC to give a better picture than the standard DVD player. And yes they do. You can use your insight and technology being in "broadcasting" but still a HTPC still will look better than that $50 DVD you are talking about. Yes it is more expensive but the people exploring that option knows full well of that cost and it was not an issue.

Again - there are many ways to match an NTSC signal to an odd resolution on a display device. One way is through the DVD-P itself, one way is through a computer processing the video signal, one way is through a line doubler, and one way is through onboard hardware on the display itself. Something has to be good at the scaling - it doesn't matter much what it is. If you take my parents' $65 Koss DVD-P that mom ordered off the Shopping Channel and feed a straight video feed into a projector with a good scaler, you'll get a good picture. If you take a DVD-P with a good scaler and send the scaled image to a projector with a bad scaler (that won't have to touch the signal), you'll get a good picture, and lastly, if you use a PC to read the DVD, and output a scaled image to a projector with a poor scaler, you'll get a good picture. What I'm saying is that the computer guys will use a HTPC, "separates" guys will use a line doubler, gear guys will use a DVD-P with onboard scaling, etc... a HTPC isn't the be all and end all, it is one solution, kind of an awkward one from my standpoint.

In reply to:
You should get out of your god complex...and actually check out some of the technology out there.

Temper, temper! And I do end up messing with a lot of different projectors... at conferences and conventions, unfortunately they haven't invented the affordable mobile Jumbotron yet. And if you're talking about PC-based video techology - I've had a wee bit of experience with video coming off computers, what flavour do you prefer... composite over BNC? SDI? What platform? Pinnacle Deko 500? Sports Deko? Inca Inscriber Studio? Moving video/clip playback/digital disc recorders? How about Drastic VVWs, Media100, AVID(&Express), Final Cut Pro, DSR-DR1000s under RS-232 or iLink control. I've been trying to be modest, but my CV that I just updated for a new gig is over 2 pages just regarding equipment knowledge. I've been around - I've set phase, colour timing, pedestal, video divisions - on a good, well adjusted CRT I don't even need a waveform/vectorscope to set one up.

In reply to:
Yes you are in broadcasting but you are not an expert in the technology of scalers..neither am I.

What is there to know about scaling video that can't be infered from a knowledge of video and systems? Do I have to try every available product to understand what does and doesn't work, and how well each solution will fit a given problem? No, for the same reason I don't have to touch every flame I see to find out if it's hot.

In reply to:
Not only are some supposed 'experts' on here are deaf...but I guess blind too.

And now you lash out because your solution is not my solution. A blanket statement was made that HTPCs "r00l a11" which is just not true. Just because a solution has a cool factor (it's much cooler to tell someone what processor, video card and software you've hand-rolled than to tell them what off-the-shelf DVD-P or line doubler you're using... has that "I did the R&D on this myself" ring to it) doesn't mean it's the final word.

As for my vision - I'm not blind. I do have a small depression in my differential between yellow and white, but I'm above normal male average for distinguishing in the green-blue area of the spectrum. At least that's what my vision tests from the Canadian Military showed.

Bren R.

In reply to:
you take my parents' $65 Koss DVD-P that mom ordered off the Shopping Channel and feed a straight video feed into a projector with a good scaler, you'll get a good picture. If you take a DVD-P with a good scaler and send the scaled image to a projector with a bad scaler (that won't have to touch the signal), you'll get a good picture, and lastly, if you use a PC to read the DVD, and output a scaled image to a projector with a poor scaler, you'll get a good picture. What I'm saying is that the computer guys will use a HTPC, "separates" guys will use a line doubler, gear guys will use a DVD-P with onboard scaling, etc... a HTPC isn't the be all and end all, it is one solution, kind of an awkward one from my standpoint.

I never said it was a 'be all and end all'. It was you that had the blanket statement that said your DVD-P would do better than the HTPC dabingle was going to create. He did not mention money, or the possible pain to settup a HTPC. He was exploring the benefit of having a HTPC vs a $50 DVD-P you mentioned as an example. All that you mentioned about which hardware has the better scaler I am in aggreement and I did clearly state that in my earlier message too.

Your point of "Rather than a HTPC for day to day watching... why not just pick up a cheap $50 DVD player?" is rather misleading. A basiC PC setup with at least a ATI or GFORCE card will present a better picture than your cheap $50 player...I would not say 100% of the time but a pretty high amount. Yes I know your going to say most projectors have a decent scaler. I would disagree with you there because the projector in question by Dabingles is a $700 projector. Most sub $1000 projectors have a poor scaler outside the Infocus X1 which does have a faroudja scaler.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm?mfg_id=any&res_id=any&ar=0&td=&is=&met=1&bll=any&bul=any&cll=any&cul=any&wll=any&wul=any&prll=any&prul=1000&an=0&dvi=-1&trig=1
Most of these projector will not fare well in a Home Theater environment outside of the Infocus X1 and the Benq 6100.

But yes if you do get a $300+ DVD-p with supperb scalers then yes there is no need for a HTPC. But going back to your original statement that the $50 DVD would fare better than a HTPC...even standard PC output...is a misleading statement too.

In reply to:
Temper, temper! And I do end up messing with a lot of different projectors... at conferences and conventions, unfortunately they haven't invented the affordable mobile Jumbotron yet

Its merely an observation...and a few other share the same feeling. Why would I waste time getting angry..I am merely debating.

The different projectors you have been tickering around with are high lumen business projector. Most projectors in that category do not fare well in a HT environment because of the dismal contrast ratio. Most HT projectors have lumen outputs less than 1200 and have contrast ratios that are 2000:1 or higher.

In reply to:
I've had a wee bit of experience with video coming off computers, what flavour do you prefer... composite over BNC? SDI? What platform? Pinnacle Deko 500? Sports Deko? Inca Inscriber Studio? Moving video/clip playback/digital disc recorders? How about Drastic VVWs, Media100, AVID(&Express), Final Cut Pro, DSR-DR1000s under RS-232 or iLink control.

Yes video editing software and hardware...not relavant to the actualy technology of scalers.
Yes I too can also mention Line Side T1 using FXS Ground loop protocol to pass ANI and DNIS information to a custom server in the IVR system so that CTI can pop.BRI? PRI? ACL? 5ESS 5E8 protocol? DTXA or DTQA?..not relavant to scaler technology in PJ vs DVd vs HTPC via video cards and viewing those sources on large screen format.

In reply to:
Do I have to try every available product to understand what does and doesn't work, and how well each solution will fit a given problem?

Well if its as simple ... why is it that when someone presents a picture via HTPC vs a picture via DVD on the same projector and the HTPC clearly shows a better picture you still throw away the choice of going HTPC and in your case a $50 DVD would do. If someone is willing to spend the $1000 on that HTPC to get a better picture...let them. I know you won't. It is no different than your happiness with your M3Ti. Those people you snob off and label as audio eleet actually do like to spend that extra money to get that seemingly better sound ... that seemingly increased resolution for that big amounts of cash.....why do they do it?...because they can afford to do it.

In reply to:
And now you lash out because your solution is not my solution. A blanket statement was made that HTPCs "r00l a11" which is just not true.

If you say so...I guess I lashed out to your solution as you did to my solution. I never made that blanket statement that HTPC rules or even implied that. READ the messages.

In reply to:
"I did the R&D on this myself" ring to it) doesn't mean it's the final word

This tests were done by many many many social meetings, tests over the years by fellow AVS-ers. In most cases all the viewers has quantified by their eyes and cameras that a properly configured HTPC would outperform a $50 DVD player in picture presentation. Against today's $300+ DVD players the margin is much closer.

Again it is my word vs your word. If you have not done a A-B test between between configured HTPC vs sub $100 DVD players then you word is also heresay. I have at least the backing of many tests done from a pretty big audio/video community.

I would gladly setup a A-B for anyone in Toronto to have a HTPC vs a sub $100 DVD player projecting into the same projector. The picture on the HTPC will in most cases present a better picture.

Again I still think its back to your god complex...or that you are still blind even if it is in front of your face.

Should I add to the ever growing list of snake oil by the experts to this forum:

- speakers that are not flat are not as good as Axioms
- high end speaker wires has no value
- all amps are created equal
- tube amps are a heresy to the music and solid state is king
- room equalization through speaker frequency manipulation is bad
- all CD & DVD players are created equal in presentation of music
- $50 DVD is a good enough solution. HTPC need not apply

ARGH...

If the money spent on a HTPC was used to buy a projector made by a manufacturer besides BenQ - I company I wouldn't even let make my mouse, then anything popping out a usable video signal to the onboard scaler will look tickity-boo. $700 project + $1000 HTPC - what's the balance of spending here? Spending 40% more on a glorified line doubler than you spend on the actual display?

As Debbie Harry one said, once more into the bleach:

speakers that are not flat are not as good as Axioms
Correct. Speaker response flatness over the audible spectrum defines speaker quality. Reference speakers are as flat as possible. You wouldn't buy film that had a big hump in skin tones - look, dear... everyone in our photos looks like Michael Jackson, a featureless set of lips and nostrils!

high end speaker wires has no value
It's good for the economy. That's a value.

all amps are created equal
Not even remotely true, that's why amps have current and wattage ratings and different numbers of channels, some are bridgable... etc.

tube amps are a heresy to the music and solid state is king
Accurate reproduction is king. Though for live performance, I can appreciate a good SWR tube head on a stage rig.

room equalization through speaker frequency manipulation is bad
I didn't chime in on this one, but I do believe EQing is evil. Maybe with a flat set of speakers and some solid state amplification, you wouldn't need to EQ. (knew that ACME bear trap would come in handy)

all CD & DVD players are created equal in presentation of music
Regarding digital outs - if they's kin read the disc data, they's as good as they's kin git. More money does not get you better 0s and 1s!

$50 DVD is a good enough solution. HTPC need not apply
If your projector isn't made in a 4th world country by an advanced race of midget apes and does it's internal resizing through an organic system based primarily on monkey dung, then yeah.

Bren R.

Jeez guys, settle down. I'm getting sprayed by both of your urine all the way down here in California!

I agree it is getting a little bit out of control.

Everyone has their own opinions, and while I agree that $1700 could buy a nice projector and DVD player that together can product a nice picture, if the guy wants to do it, he is most likely going to anyway. Seems like he likes to DIY everything. I udnerstand wanting to guide him in the right direction, and I think that all valid points for both sides have now been made.

This forum is great for honesty and openness, and everyone seems to get along most of the time. Lets keep it that way as you guys are very valuable members here, and I would hate for someone to get ticked off enough to leave.

BrenR:

Just one point. Those speakers that you say are flat in an anechoic chamber are not so flat in our real rooms.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Advice&Number=78892&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1

It is quite okey you are correct on all points. I will go back to just trollying in the forum and just READ. And I thought I'd learn the first time.

cheers

So I guess the trick is not to sell flat speakers, but to sell rooms that will flatten speaker response.

I would rather you stay (and post) Saturn. BECAUSE you two guys dont agree, I've learned something from BOTH of ya'lls posts.
It's all right not to agree. One mans fact is another mans fiction. Nothing wrong with that.
To be honset with you I dont think I could go wrong with either of you guys helping me make an upgrade in my viewing capabilities.

In reply to:
Just one point. Those speakers that you say are flat in an anechoic chamber are not so flat in our real rooms.

Maybe it's just me, but I do not get the point.

Did you ever notice that those nice round tires hanging on the wall of your local tire center aren't so round after you mount them on a car and sit them on the road? Maybe Goodyear could improve tire performance by building the flat spot in at the factory?

naaaa...