Looking for opinions from anyone who has owned a Nad receiver or who currently owns the NAD T773. Where would you rank it with the Rotel, Harman Kardon, B&K, or Denon of similar values and build.
Your opinions are welcome,
Troy
Having never owned an NAD product I cannot say for sure how you will like it. What I can say is that I've always wanted to try a NAD product in my system. I can also say that is very powerful and should handle 4 ohm loads with ease. I'm just not sure how up to date it is with the latest and greatest bells and whistles. You might better be served with a new HK or Denon. If you can get the 773 for a good price I'd probably go for it myself.
I find NAD a tad expensive for what you get.
Denon and HK make better receivers at the same price range.
Whereabouts do you live? In some stores (i.e. Dumoulin and Audiotronic chain here in Montreal) you can negotiate prices and can generally get a very good deal (about 20% cheaper than list price). They carry Denon and HK.
Although NAD may have less functionality and look more simple than the others, their amplifier stages are among the best in the category. Among receivers in the same price point, I think NAD and HK have the best amplifiers,
I live in Manitoba. As stated in the last post, my curiosity is in regards to the sound and amplifier power being at a higher level then others in the same price range.
It does appear that looks are not great and the feature list is much smaller then most as well. From what I have read so far, is that their strength lies on the power output and is based on real wattage, powering all channels to stated levels.
All opinions, especially from owners, are welcome,
Troy
Yes...NAD and HK are very true to their rated power output with all channels driven......although the importance of that is a little overrated IMO.
As far as real world conditions are concerned, you are probably right, but because of the honesty, that's WHY I would buy a NAD or HK. No matter what JohnK or the national people that allow such "all channels driven" power ratings to be printed when they are false or not proven say, I like to be told the truth as much as possible as a consumer. Unfortunately, I cannot afford NAD or HK at this time. So although Denon is "lying" to me, they'll still get my business cause I'm poor.
If you shop around enough I think HK and Denon prices are comparable for the same features and (real
) power.
Checked out the local prices as stated;
NAD T773 ($2250 cdn)
Denon 3805 ($1800 cdn)
Denon 2805 ($1200 cdn)
Denon 4802 ($2200 cdn) "2 yr old demo model though"
I have not yet received a price on the "HK AVR 7300" on the "true" 100 x 7 though and another I failed to mention is the Rotel RSX-1067. Each also put out full rated power all channels powered.
I would say Denon is cheaper for some reason. I also have heard their ratings are not based on all channels running at the same time. More bells, whistles and flashing lights come with them though.
If anyone has prices(cdn$) of the HK 7300, or Rotel 1067, fire away.
Cheers,
Troy
Here is the completed price list (Canadian $)
Denon 2805-----$1200
Denon 3805-----$1800
Denon 4802-----$2200 (2 yr old demo model)
HK AVR 7300----$3300
Rotel RSX-1067-$3300
NAD T773-------$2250
Now as far as i know the Denon's are the only ones not truely rated running all speakers at once to spec's.
The rest do and that has to be why the difference in price, without saying anything about sound quality.
Now saying that the Nad T773 is priced very well for the honest power ratings. The reveiws I have read say they are plain in looks and not a whole lot of extra stuff most don't require. Just good sound and power to back it up.
Is it not a solid price to value?
Troy
Comparatively, it looks like a good price. That Denon 3805 sure is pretty powerful too. Oh, and I actually like the look of NAD. Simplicity implies business. Plus it's kinda like the reciever that walks to his own tune, not another bright reciever lemming.
As another datapoint, I paid $1299 CDN for my HK 630, on sale at FutureShop in Toronto.
For some reason in Canada HK's are way more expensive than in the US. There are lots of web based stores that ship to Canada for a lot less than you can purchase them here. Example:
HK635 ~ $750 USD = $1000 CDN with exchange and shipping
HK7300 ~ $1400 USD = $1850-1900 CDN by the time it gets to your door
http://bizrate.lycos.com/marketplace/search/search__cid--11070000,pid--279828790.html
You just got to make sure they are authorized online dealers for warrantee purposes.
http://www.harmankardon.com/online_retailers.aspx?Language=ENG&Region=USA&Country=US
I'll bet you could also do better on the Dennon's going the same route (although I've never priced them out).
The prices sound good. The duty costs I am unsure of but they will charge something.
The one important note which could become a problem is warranty service work. I don't know if all companies are the same but some state the warranty work must be carried out in country of purchase.
On average I would say that any item purchased in the states and shipped up to Canada would add around 40-50% to the price with taxes, exchange, shipping and duty charges. Like I said the duty costs I'm unsure of as the free trade rulings may save us that import cost. Not sure.
On the taxes portion of my earlier stated receiver costs did not include our 14 or 15% tax premium.
Troy
Matt, you've misunderstood; most receiver manufacturers make no "all channels driven" rating claim and aren't required to do so. The FTC reg requires that two channels be simultaneously driven at full rated power for at least five minutes continuously. This is what Denon and the majority of other makers rate, and their rating is accurate. Denon hasn't lied to you.
I am still searching for more info to compare these receivers but so far all could find was;
Denon 3805 as tested by Audioholics was 77 watts/ch all channels driven simultaneously.
With HK 7300 and NAD T773 both 110 watts/ch all channels driven simultaneously.
The Nad T773 is also rated at 2 x 145 Watts, THD 0.08%
Unsure of the exact meaning of this next rating but let me know if you have any ideas,
The NAD T773 is also rated;
IHF dynamic power:
8ohms 2 x 230 watts (23.6dbW)
4ohms 2 x 320 watts (25.05dbW)
2ohms 2 x 390 watts (25.91dbW)
simultaneous pwr output surround mode 7 x 110 watt(20.4dbW)
Just some figures but it seems that unlike Denon, the Nad is recommended and power wise more capable of running say the Axium M80ti with it's 4 ohm speaker.
Troy
Troy, the IHF dynamic power rating is one in which a 20 millisecond(thousandths of a second)sound burst is applied at half-second intervals and the maximum output capability for the 20 milliseconds is measured. This might seem to be a uselessly short period, but it's of some significance in that the beginning of a sound transient is its highest level and may be at that level for only about that length of time. Note that the 2 ohm dynamic power rating, which many manufacturers quote, in no way is meant to imply that a 2 ohm load could be driven except for that brief period. You may be making this power thing a lot more complicated than necessary, worrying over very small differences of no more than a few tens of watts. The Denon, along with the others you've considered, should be very satisfactory with the M80s in most setups. I've seen it tested at around 180 watts into 4ohms and 250 watts 4ohm IHF dynamic power.
Troy
You are correct, I did underestimate the additional costs a bit when converting a US web purchase in to CDN $ and adding the deliver and brokerage fees. I just checked the bill of an Onkyo receiver I took delivery of the other day. It cost $400 US from J&R over the web plus $50 USD for delivery and $45 CDN for brokerage fees. The grand total in CDN was $589.50 (plus UPS collected the GST dreaded for the Feds). So a 50% markup. You do have to check with the various online stores to see if their warrantees are transerable to Canada though. I found most were, but some were not.
Bottom line is a HK7300 from a US based web dealer at $1400 USD will arrive at your door for about $2100 CDN + GST. That is a savings if $1200+ CDN when the Canadian Futureshops are selling it for $3300 (almost enough for a set of M80's).
J & R has the avr-7300 on for $1299 US right now and they are an uathorized seller.
i thought the prices on his list seemed kinda high..
thats a good deal on the 7300 by comparison!!
bigjohn
My guess on the prices being so high, has to do with the long journey across that cold, wind torn, prairie winter at -40deg celcius or Farenheit whichever your familiar with. "and those damn dog sled teams are not getting any more efficient".
Those prices are straight from the dealers in Winnipeg and some were reduced by 5 and 10%.
I will have to look into the on line ordering some more.
Thanks for the advice,
Troy
Troy,
Head over to ecost.com and check out their prices. I just purchased a Denon AVR-2105/885S last week. The total price (duty, shipping, exchange, taxes) delivered to my door was about $575.00 CDN. My local A&B Sound dealer was selling the AVR-2105 for about $450 more than what I paid (taxes included). The ecost site is very simple to order from. Just make sure you go through the checkout for Canadian purchasers to get the final landed cost. Good luck with your search.
Shaun
Straight from the Denon website:
"• 7 Channels equal power amplifier section • 90 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, <.08%THD) • 125 watts per channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, <.7%THD)"
That would imply to me that you should get 90 full bandwith rated watts at any given time on all seven channels if need be. Now the FTC may only require two channels and it may be legal, yada, yada, yada. In MY book, I like the way NAD, HK, Rotel, etc. rank their power ratings. Whether or not Denon and other manufacturers are "technically" lying to me is not the point. The point is I feel as though they are lying to me. I still respect Denon products and the like, but I just appreciate NAD and HK's brutal honesty. I also understand the minute differences in decibels that 10-20 watts makes. But thats not whats important here (at least IMO).
One Call has the 7300 for $1342. that’s where I bought my 7200. http://ww2.onecall.com/PID_23716.htm
I love my 7200. at -10 db’s, my little Radio Shack meter is pegged at 95 db’s twenty feet away from the M80’s, and I can not be in the same room past 0, and it goes to +40. It weighs 55 pounds and is 25” deep. It truly is a beast of an AVR. In stereo, it’s rated at 125 watts per channel. I don’t know what its true power is, or what it’s rated at 4 ohms either. The manual doesn’t say. I seam to recall that I read an independent report somewhere that numerous receivers were tested and the 7200 was putting out around 145 per channel, all channels driven.
With regards to power output, the wattage is fine and dandy to consider, but amperage is what really counts. It’s the old volume vrs pressure comparison. At high output levels, you need more electrons flowing to maintain wattage. Most of the lower end AVR’s may tout a high watt per channel, but they just don’t have the current capacity to keep up under high loads. Nad and HK are known for their high current capabilities.
Does anyone remember or know where to find the above mentioned report on AVR’s real power output. I’m pretty sure that I stumbled onto the link that a member posted here??
I was reminded just this week, by an outlet rep, about the current produced in the unit as the real basis for power output capability.
If that is the most accurate factor in determining the unit output capacity, then why is it not boldly apart of every specs sheet and electronics label, especially to the higher end models. It should be placed side by side with the Watts per channel. This missing factor would seem to be less important to low end models because they don't have the current to help sell their products, but for the higher end, it should be a must.
Where do we get this info from, because if it is that important, it has to be out there.
On the internet purchasing side of things, if anyone has a reputable site that sells HK 7300's, NAD T773's, or Rotel products and has a good working policy with Canadian purchasers, please add it to this thread.
Thanks,
Troy