OK fellas, i got another HT system question.

a good friend of mine just bought a new house, and wants me to install his HT system. he has already had the rear surround wires run(14g), and had a sub cable already run to the corner, and hid behind the trim that was replaced when he had the wood floors redone. so basically, we are looking at a room that measures 15x20, and the TV and fronts will go against the long wall, and the couch will be approx 10-12ft in front of the TV. he wants to leave a little walk space behind the couch.

he has a $1300-$1500 budget, so here is what i am suggesting. oh, and he already has a 32inch TV.

Onyko 502 from ecost for $190.
Axiom FO M3's for fronts at $270.
Axiom discontinued M1's(surrounds) and VP50(center) from canadian hifi for total of $300 shipped.
SVS PB10-ISD shipped for $500.

that all comes to roughly $1250, and figure in another $100 for cables and interconnectors, and i am in budget at around $1350. but here is my only concern.

will the M3's be enough for that room? it has hardwood floors, and they will have an area rug down, but there will still be lots of hardwood exposed. there will most likely be a large couch, a smaller loveseat, and maybe a recliner, so those will help to absorb sound. and, i will probably have to spend at least $100 bucks for some speaker stands for the M3's, so i am creeping more toward the $1500 budget limit.

what i am thinking of, would be to get the M40's instead of the M3's. the 40's are basically M3's in a cabinet, right? get a little better bass, and maybe more midrange response, but it would put us over budget by about $150 bucks... so i ask, would it be worth it, or would i just be better off staying with the M3's? installation is still 8-10 weeks away.

as always, ya'lls input and advice would be welcomed and appreciated.

BTW- i cant wait for my buddy to get that PB10 in. i really wanna hear what this little baby can do.

bigjohn

My take is that for music speakers without a sub the M40s are fantastic and are a no-brainer choice. In a home theater system with a good sub the deeper bass extension of the M40 isn't such a big advantage. Bear in mind that if you don't have a receiver that allows different crossover frequencies for main and surrounds/center you're going to have a tough time taking full advantage of the M40 anyways.

My first thought here would be M22s since they will be able to handle the room size a bit better than either M3s or M40s. You still have the cost of the stands though so it is a tough call.

In some ways I guess this is going to come down to the cost of the stands you need to get for WAF etc... I don't think you will get a lot more out of M40s than out of M3s, but if the cost of M3+stand is close to the M40 cost I would go with M40s anyways just because I really like them

No help at all, huh ?

In a room that size I'd go with the QS4s over the M1s which only have a 4 1/2" woofer. Plus I think Canadian Hifi prices are far too high. I also wouldn't go with the VP50.

I think I'd keep the budget the same and get a sub later, that would let them get a better centre speaker which is essential for HT as it has most of the dialogue.

Just my $0.02 ignore at will .

Don't the QS4s have the same 4 1/2" woofer, just two of them ? I got caught up in the M3 vs. M40 question, didn't read the rest carefully enough, need to go back and look again.

EDIT -- my first thought is that you could do a lot worse than 5 FO M3s if you could mount the surrounds on the side walls or back walls via FMB (I imagine you were going to wall mount the M1s). If you had to buy stands for the surrounds then QS4s would end up costing you about the same as M3s plus stands.

2 FO M3 + VP50 + 2 M1 - $570 shipped

5 M3 - $675 shipped

3 FO M3 + 2 FO QS4 - $765 shipped

I don't have cost of wall mount brackets in here because you didn't have them for the M1s, not sure if we should be adding them in.

According to Canadian Hi-Fi's latest Ebay auction the last of their M1's are on the auction block, and they only have the white maple finish available.

How's this idea...


Onkyo 502 $190
M3ti mains
M3ti center
M3ti surrounds (all 5 from f.o. for $675)
Hsu STF-2 ($399...but check for b-stock)

I think you can get the 5 piece discount from axiom, you may also be able to get an additional 5% discount if you waive the 30 day return policy.

Do they have a dvd player?

i can appreciate what you are saying, but once again i am having to do this on a tight budget. i would prefer to stick with axiom products, and canadian hi-fi is the only company i have found that has them at 'reasonable' prices.. and is their any particulat reason you dont care for the VP50? prior experience?

BTW- canadian hifi WILL bargain with you. i got a large discount on the speakers i bought for my sisters HT system.

thanks for your input. QS4's are out of the question with the budget. unless i wanna get crappy little sony sub.... NOT!!

I tried getting a deal on some of their M1's and they didn't even return my email.

they do have a DVD player.

that is another option craig, i didnt think of that. M3's all around.. interesting.

i am open to ANY suggestions, as long as it stays within the budget($1500 for everything, inc. cables and stands)

EDIT- i called them, and they worked with me!

bigjohn

Yes you are correct. But the QS series design IMHO makes for a much better surround than a single 4 1/2" speaker. Plus it now has the same tweeters as the rest of the Axiom's, the older M1s don't.

I also think a M40 would be a better value than a M3 with stand.

I also think the all M3s option makes a lot of sense.

>>I think you can get the 5 piece discount from axiom

Good point. Getting all 5 from Axiom should always get you the 5% if they ship together. New prices :

2 FO M3 + VP50 + 2 M1 - $570 shipped

5 M3 - $641 shipped

3 FO M3 + 2 FO QS4 - $727 shipped

Looks like M3s might be as far as the budget goes :

641 speakers
190 receiver
500 sub
100 cables & connections
===
1431 plus stands

I really think the Hsu STF-2 should be considered. It's an AMAZING bargain. A killer sub, and it'll save you another $100.

actually, it will only save me $75, cause i still gotta ship it.. plus, they have a PB10 in b-stock for $399 right now.

oh the options?!?!?!?!?! but i sure like the M3's all around idea..

bigjohn

$399 is for an A-Stock STF-2. The B-stock would likely be about about $340.

641 speakers
190 receiver
500 sub
100 cables & connections
===
1431 plus stands

Now if you have cables lying AROUND (everyone has cables lying around) you could probably swing QS4s and have a real good system.

Think about speaker placement. You might find QS4s on the back walls are sufficiently preferable to M3s/M1s at the sides somewhere to fit QS4s into the budget.

bigjohn
I like the M3 all around idea also.


Who's crawling through the attic?

John, my thought is that since he'll only be about 10-12' from the speakers and using a strong sub, three M2s across the front should do well. Add QS4s for about an $800 total to that point, plus sub and receiver.

I guess it depends on how loudly the system will be played. I find my M2 mains are great at maybe 8' from listening position but at 12' they start to seem a bit small for the task... with a 100 Hz crossover to a big SVS sub. Then again they seem fine for HT, only hit the limits on music.

I figured M3s would be just enough better (larger driver => more air moved, slightly higher efficiency, slightly higher power handling etc...) to make a difference.

When I was comparing M2 to M3 I didn't think to focus on SPL and playing distance (having a wall behind me 8 feet from the speakers didn't help ) so this is just informal impressions & spec reading, not confirmed in my own basement or anything.

Agree that with a sub M2s can sound even better than M3s due to flatter response in the upper bass and around the crossover frequency... I'm just a bit concerned because of the room size and seating distance. Hard to say...

I've got the 502 pushing M22's upstairs. I don't have the HT
set up but this combo sounds great......
Todd

bray- luckily, when he had some work done on the house, had the wires already run. and also, a sub wire run to the corner, and hidden with some molding.. so, all i will have to do is mount the surrounds to the wall, and plug in a few cords.. this one should be easy!!

BTW- we are having a disc golf tourney here next weekend(sat & sun). i am camping out, so if you feel like a road trip, bring it on brotha. weather should be awesome.

bigjohn

My 2 cents. . .

Forget surround sound for now. Get at least a pair of 22's and even consider some 60's as mains. You could get a nice sub with these speakers and he could enjoy awesome sound quality in stereo mode. Then when cash permits farther down the road he can get whatever surrounds and center he wants with just a little dedication to saving for it.

This to me is a great option because you get to hear your system grow and you start with a great foundation instead of settling for less with the gotta have it all now package.

Just a thought. . .

thanks for your input.. i did bring up this option to him, and he seemed very negative against it. he wants the whole shabang all at once. i am gonna try and see if he will let the budget go up a few $100 bucks so we have more options avail to us.

he just got done with about $15K of home renovations, so he is pretty tapped out for extra cash right now. but, i am very persistent!!

bigjohn

bigjohn,

What's the chance of delaying part of the package (rears or sub) and using the available money now for a little better selection. It would be nice to get it all at once, but that size room is going to require a bigger expenditure to fill it. Santa could show up with the remaining pieces. This option could get really special if he wanted/could ad a few $100 to the mix.

BTW - you have a PM.

I'm always for the building a system idea over the get it all now, but get a lesser system. (I don't really think M3ti's all around would be shabby at all though)

>>I'm always for the building a system idea over the get it all now, but get a lesser system...

... that's what makes us different from everyone else

UPDATE- i just got an email from my buddy, and FEDEX just delivered his M22's, and the VP100. his first comment on the email was, "they are pretty cool looking, but heavy"..

he is supposed to be bringing them by my house this afternoon, and we are gonna hook 'em up to my system, and give them a test run. i am looking forward to it.

gonna play some regular music discs, a few SACD's, then jump into some BIG sound movies. he has already said the system will be used mainly for movies, so i want him to demo several movies to give him an idea of how it is gonna sound.

he still needs to order his receiver, sub, and surounds. the sub will be the SVS-PB10, but he is yet undecided on the receiver and surrounds. i have a feeling that once he hears my QS8's, he will go ahead and bump up the budget to at least afford the QS4's.

i will let you know my impressions of the 22's and the 100. i am excited to see how they perform.

bigjohn