Ok, I have decided to get the Epic 60 500 watt set of Axioms but I also need to purchase a new receiver to run these baby's. If some of you experts on this board can give me a little guidance in this I would greatly appreciate it. I have looked at several different manufacturers like NAD, Marants, Yamahaa, and Harmon Kardon but I really dont know what or who to believe when talking to people about rceivers. I have around $1200.00 to spend on this but if its worth it I can come up with a little more.
Please guide me...
I think you should really consider Rotel, I have 3 rotel gears in a stereo setup and love them with my Axiom M60s! A good startin point is
Rotel Website
Check it out, even though a little bit over your price range. Rotel is considered an entry level of high end electronics, a step above best consumer electronics.
You might consider a Denon 2805 for its features and an amp like Outlaw Audio 755 for 5.1 or 770 for 7.1. The Denon can be bought refurbed on Ubid and other sites. My refurbed 3805 looks and acts new. I am on the fence for which amp I am going for.
I like my Denon 2805, but you really have lots of choices. HK, Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, etc are all good brands. If you go with seperates: Rotel, Outlaw, etc. are good choices.
moore- if you are starting out with a $1200 budget, you are already WAY ahead of the curve. most guys are strugling to have a budget of $600-$700. with that kind of cash avail, you have LOTS of options.
you can go with separates or get the 'top of the line' AV receivers from the big names(H/K, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, etc). but, dont feel like you have to spend the $1200 to get a great receiver. there are plenty of awesome options that are much cheaper.
so, i would look at what you want the receiver to do, and what kind of inputs you are gonna have, and base your decision from that. i mean, does it make sense to buy a $1200 receiver, if you are only gonna use $800 bucks worth of its capabilities. i would buy the $800 receiver, and use the $400 toward something else..
just an idea..
bigjohn
Thanks for all of your suggestions guys...my problem is that I dont know what I want to do. I guess what would help me is if you guys were in my position what would you do? Top of the line receiver or seperates? I just know I want a setup that I would be proud of. I feel like I am making strides in that direction with my decision to get the Axioms but I am totally lost on the receivers.
Sorry for being such a newbie...
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Marants, Yamahaa, and Harmon Kardon
Marantz, Yamaha and Harman/Kardon.
You spelled NAD right though!
Honestly you really can't go wrong with any of those manufacturers, just find one with the connectivity you want (count the number of coaxial digital/optical digital inputs, 6 channel analog if you want SACD, component ins and outs, etc), and the features you want.
You'd also have the choice of going with separates if so inclined.
Ask 100 people what you should use for amplification, 98 of them will suggest what they own and 2 disgruntled owners will suggest anything but what they own.
Bren R.
LOL...thanks for the spell check BrenR
More of a newbie that I thought
I have been kind of leaning to the Marantz SR8400 solely based on a good friend of mine that really loves Marantz. Would this be a good choice?
Alan's take on receivers
Alan being Axiom's resident expert.
Moore...what will this system primarily be used for? Some folks like to listen to music most of the time and watch movies *sometimes* while others may seldom listen to music and use their system primarily for HT. No need to spend the big buckolas on an HT reciever that is loaded with DSPs if you're gonna liten to music and on the otherhand you don't want to cut yourself short with the needed features if you'll be watching lot's of movies.
*If* I were you I'd do some research and reading about the various componets, go to several A/V stores and play around with some of gear, push buttons, lift 'em up, turn 'em around and check out the back for features to get a good general idea of how the little critter is going to work with you. You'll get a good idea which is the not-so good stuff and which is the stuff to consider, come back here with your questions (you'll get some very good answers), and then start looking on the internet for the best deal!
I was just to darm impatient for all of that, myself.
Thanks Rick I will do that. I can feel your pain on the being impatient part...I want my stuff last week!
Tid bits...most of the usage will be for home theater but I really want to be able to kick up some tunes during the weekends or parties.
My room mearures 18' x 25' with 9' ceilings.
If I had 2400.00 maybe Outlaw 990 and Outlaw 755 separates
If 1800.00 maybe Denon 2805 and Outlaw 755.
If 1350.00 mabye Denon 2805 and 3 Outlaw Monoblocks
That's just picking 2 suppliers. Your options are endless.
Audition as many as you can. Bring some home if you can.
Your budget puts you at the edge a really nice system. Go to forums (this one, AV123, S&V, Outlaw) and read up on as much as you can. It's worth the effort.
IMHO!
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LOL...thanks for the spell check BrenR
Makes it easier to find through Google.
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I have been kind of leaning to the Marantz SR8400 solely based on a good friend of mine that really loves Marantz.
Everything's a big balancing act... if you want to spend the $1200, nothing wrong with the AVR mentioned.
A rundown of it's features from Marantz' site (though I wish they'd give some concrete info rather than just a bulleted list of feature wanking):
110 watts (into 8 ohms) x 7 ch Amps - Marantz are pretty well know for falsifying power ratings (using watts RMS at 1KHz rather than full frequency) so take this with a grain of salt.
All discrete, Current Feedback amplifiers - Current Feedback vs Voltage Feedback amps? The battle will rage forever, at least they do tell you what architecture they've built from. Ignore this line for most intents.
Copper plated chassis with double bottom plate - Um... good? Might as well add in what screw head type is used (all Phillips #1 screwheads! Wow! Zing! Pow!) Ignore this.
Massive energy power supply with huge toroidal power transformer - It's huge? Wow, huge is good! AND the energy is massive!! Toroidal transformers do exhibit less EMI than conventional transformers they say. If I were spec'ing an EKG machine, I'd be concerned, an AVR... not so much, but it's not a drawback, so we'll say good.
Dolby Digital EX,Prologic IIx (Movie/Music), Pro-logic, DTS 96/24, ES (Discrete6.1/Matrix6.1), Neo-6 (Cinema/Music) - Matrixing DSP and decoders available on the receiver. Nothing out of the ordinary here.
SRS Circle surround II (6.1) (Cinema/Music/Mono) - A lesser known matrixing DSP as far as I know. Choice is good... this is another choice. Maybe you'll use it, maybe you won't.
Bren R.
uBid had a sale for the Marantz 8400 and I picked up one for $499
here is the link to my post on the Marantz 8400, they will be powering my m60, qs8, and vp150
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ST&Number=92807&page=3&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=
I have a marantz sr 6300 and a marantz mm9000 and love the set up, I paid about 1200$ total for the 2 units.. the 6300 is a 6 channel receiver with lots of features, just not a lot of video switching...but you can now get a newer receiver that will have more extensive video switching, and the amp is a 5 channel 170watt amp, and it pushes the 60's very well, i have the 60's vp150 and qs8's all powered off of the amp, and it is very clean sounding with 0 distortion ever no matter what volume level. I think that is about as good of a combination for the 60’s as one could ask for (personally).
Thanks again BrenR you are a great help. Can you critique other models as well?
Or better yet if you were in my situation with my budget what receiver would you purchase?
Looking for the most bang for my buck…
.
I would seriously keep an eye out on uBid. At times they have brand new high end audio priced for the poor man.
Thanks Nautec and Drakkon I appreciate the feedback I like the Marantz as well. My friend has the 7400 and some real expensive speakers he got from a real estate auction from a guy that died. I cant recall the name but he got them for next to nothing and he says that new they are worth around $8000.00. I did not know there were speakers that cost that much!
His system sounds fantastic and gives much credit to the Marantz.
Im one of those guys that will spend hours and hours reading everything I can get my hands on to learn and make a decision so thanks again for your input.
the setup that i got was the best bang for the buck, the marantz mm9000 was the lowest distortion amp that i could find anywhere. something like (<.03% THD, 20 Hz - 20 kHz) i don’t think ANY receiver can have that clarity with that much power... and you can get one of these amps on ebay or else where for around 600$ now... new they retailed for 3,000$ i think?
If you are thinking marantz, check this place out, this is where I bought my stuff, and they are a certified licensed dealer, even says so on the marantz website..
http://www.accessories4less.com/
they have really good deals on marantz products…cool guy to, mike is the owner I belive.
hope this helps.. im the same as you, spend 2-4 weeks, before i buy somthing... then another 2 weeks afterwords..
First JH, welcome. You'll really enjoy your Epic 60 setup, especially with that 500 sub. In my view you're giving the receiver decision far more attention(and probably money)than it deserves. Unless your listening is going to be at extreme volumes in a huge room(in which case you should be thinking M80),as indicated in Alan's article the receivers in the 80-100 watt area are plenty. There're several excellent quality ones available for less than you're thinking about which would completely suit your needs and a decision between them is hardly a crucial matter. A few in alphabetical order would be the Denon 3805/2805, HK 635, Onkyo 702 and Yamaha 2500. Relax, you can't go wrong.
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Thanks again BrenR you are a great help. Can you critique other models as well?
You're pretty golden with anything you want to buy... I just like to help cut through the BS on the "tech" documents. Know how many people buy receivers (or printers, or scanners, or cameras...) based on the model number? "You have a Nikon F60? I have an F85 - that's like 30% more F!"
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Or better yet if you were in my situation with my budget what receiver would you purchase?
What I would buy (or anyone else here) may not be what you want. Hard to say, but it's true - it's just feature sets that distinguish receivers up in that range... try the remote, the menus, etc... see if you like it. Since you asked directly, if it was me, I'd buy the Denon 3805 (or whatever else they've got cooking in the way of a new model) I like the feature set (and I'm a Yamaha owner.)
Bren R.
The place I purchased my NAD from sold Marantz as well. They stated that Marantz is not near the same quality. I didn't listen to it but they didn't even try to sell it to me. They said it was in running with the Denon.
As Bren had stated, everyone has done their own research and chose their systems with different personal requirements.
I liked the NAD, Harman Kardon and Rotel for their honest wattage rating driving all seven channels. High current does that. The others such as Denon 2805 are popular but you will not get as stated 110 watts per channel with all channels running. That may be fine if you don't expect to be cranking it up that loud. I heard lots about the fact there is not much difference between 50 watts per channel and 100 watts per channel.
I didn't want to run out of juice and made the extra choice of buying an Anthem MCA3 amp to run my front and center channels seperately and use the other seven receiver channels to run my surrounds and a set of Monitor Audio S8's upstairs in the living room as a second zone.
The other reason I bought the NAD T773 receiver was the reports on easy to operate remote functions compared to many other receivers. It seems to be a popular complaint with recievers. The remotes offer so many functions and options nowadays that they are a challenge to master. I have had mine for 2 weeks and the whole family is capable of running through all options pretty much.
The only complaint I had which really isn't all that big is the fact I can hear a hum from the speakers when nothing is playing. I have to concentrate to hear it and be within 6 or so feet. Honestly I only hear it when I shut everything off and move myself to the right spot and tell the household to be quiet I'm trying to hear the hum.
It is really a non player.
If you have the money Rotel seems to have the votes but then again it will cost you, as seperates will as well.
Try this site for NAD T773. It's a great review.
WWW.avrev.com/equip/nadt773/index.html
Good luck,
Troy
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The only complaint I had which really isn't all that big is the fact I can hear a hum from the speakers when nothing is playing.
You're in the south end, right? Maybe some weekend when we both have time I could pop over and give a quick runthrough and try to figure out if there's a good cause for that.
Bren R.
Bring Chesseroo with you too.
Troy
Indeed Bren.
"DRAG" me along, kicking and screaming.
Maybe i will bring the M60s and we could do a head to head with the M80s, or for that matter, the EP350 vs the EP600. That is fair no?
M80 vs M60 vs M3s
EP500 vs EP350 vs STF-2
Looks like we'll have to rent a van.
Bren R.
I did a head to head with the 60s and 80s. Both great speakers.
I heard the M80s casually when i was at the factory. They certainly did not sound different in overall character than the M60s so really an A/B test would be required to discern the subtle differences. I think the change to the sound of the M3 would be interesting though.
As for the subs, well, i've been down that road before with Klipsch and SVS. It is not quite as fun a thing to test A/B. Turning off all other speakers and switching b/w sub sounds can get quite boring. Trying to equalize the subs for SPL when they are vastly different in shape doesn't seem to do much either. Picking out the SVS tall tube vs the cube EP350 was amazingly easy.
Should I bring my SPL meter or do one of you have one?
Bren R.
I own a Source (no longer RShack) SPL but it is the clearly inferior digital type. If you have an incredibly more sophisticated analog one, you had better bring it just in case.
FYI, i am also planning on bringing my best of Conway Twitty disc for your perusal.
I hate to throw a wrench into your decision making but . . .
If you considering this receiver as a HT receiver, instead of mainly a music receiver, AND Video switching is also important to you . . .
I would consider waiting on that 1200$ + purchase, and wait for more receivers to come out with receivers with HDMI connections included.
There are lots of nice, lower priced receivers that would "get you by" while you waited for the HDMI stuff.
The Pioneer VSX-1014 or the newer (almost identical) 1015 and the Panasonic digital receivers are nice options.
It's more $$ (a good bit more) but I have my eye on a new pre-pro/amp combo from Arcam that is supposed to come out this month. I believe the pre-pro is called the AVP 700 and the amp is the P1 and the combo will run $4500. The pre has HDMI switching (video only at this point), but that's not why I'm interested. Arcam has a sound that just really like. Another option is the Arcam AVR 300 ($1999). You can read up on these at their North American distributor site:
http://www.audiophilesystems.com/
I would also put a plug in for Rotel and you might want to check out the Emotiva UL combo that is supposedly coming out this month.
I put these first since they all are separates-based and have the capacity to drive 4-ohm loads if you later decide to upgrade speakers.
A great receiver that is more in the $1200 range is the Pioneer Elite VSX56TXI. It has upgraded capacitors from the lower models (for better power) and my favorite feature is the I-Link, which lets you make one connection from an I-Link equipped player (like the DV59-AVi) rather than 6 cables and you can utilize the bass management/MCACC functions on the receiver for DVD-A/SACD music.
Anyway, just a few more suggestions. How about you telling us what features you are looking for and maybe we can talk more specifics?
After just doing this myself, I'd go for a midrange MK or Denon. Get the featues you need. Buy a refurbed for 3-500. Spend the rest on 200watt amps.