Hello Everybody!

I currently have 2 qs8s, 2 m60s, 1 vp150 and 1 ep shake the hell out of my house 500.

I have about a 2 foot area behind my couch from the back wall. Would I hear a substantial difference if I went to a 6.1 or 7.1? My room size is 15 x 18 x 9.

If so, what speaker(s) would you recommend for the rear?

Thanks for your opinions that drive me to spend more money.

Mike

Hiya Mike,

I suspect that opinions are going to vary.

Spiffnme (Craig) has on several occasions submitted that he did not find substantial value in making that change. I trust his judgement.

My own experience (in room somewhat larger than yours) validates Craig's. Before doing the permanent wiring (which would have been a huge pain) and buying additional Axiom(s), I ran a temporary, inelegant cable to a mis-matched sixth speaker for a while. I simply did not think that the extra, rear channel added much, if anything, to my enjoyment of movies.

Since I have ~10 feet behind my couch, I expected a much greater difference in my case than I would in yours. In the room you describe, I would be very surprised if you got a lot of bang for your buck by adding more speakers.

I do not believe there are ANY discrete 6.1 or 7.1 sources at this time. DTS and DD are 5.1 and the 6th channel is synthesized by your processor. It is also typical (if not absolute) for processors to send the same signal to both the 6th and 7th channels; using more than one speaker back there gives you broader coverage and higher SPL possibilities, but not necessarily different content.

Now, please understand, I like my music in good old Stereo, and respect the opinions of others that have had different experiences.

As to which type of speaker to use, some people have reported tremendous success by using their fancy processors to send DVDA/SACD signals to direct-radiating rear speakers (like a M2 or M22). I like my QS8's so much that I think the only reason to use a monopole speaker in either the surround or rear positions is if you are committed to multi-channel audio. So, some of the answer to your question depends upon your processor, amps and listening habits.

Based on what you've described, If you decided to implement this upgrade, I'd suggest a single QS8 and 6.1.

Personally, I'm saving those WAF points for a HDTV.

I'd love to hear your system some time!

First of all, correct me if I'm wrong but the new Star Wars DVD (Ep456) set is in 6.1 (DD EX). And I believe the DVD for The Alamo was in 7.1.

Now I have hung an extra pair of speakers on my rear wall which is ~12 feet behind the sitting area and a total of ~25 feet away from fronts.

I don't find it to be something I'd call amazing, but sometimes it does add a touch of ambience since I have that wide open space behind the sitting aread.

Judging by my experiences in the past where I had no room behind the sitting area I'd have to agree that it prolly doesn't add much, esp since there isn't a lot of material specifically programed for it. For me its worth it, but like I said, its just a couple extra speakers I had that I figured I'd put to good use. I do like having them there but I could live without it as well.

I have a 7.1 setup and like it. I figure my receiver has the channels, dolby IIx and I had the speakers so why not. I also like the sound, rented the special edition of top gun with DTS 6.1, not a great movie but the surround effects and the visuals of the jets are still amazing.

Personally I would go with 7.1 and have been with 7.1 for over 2 years now. I am a loyal HK receiver owner and thus love their logic 7 technology for music etc...where as DD EX makes some difference...not a lot but once in a while it will surprise you. For example....rivers...you can hear the water out of the 2 extra speakers for a while...where as with a 5.1 you will probably not get that extra "ambience".

MY 2 Cents.

-Tarun

Just curious: has anybody with a 7.1 system experienced both bi-polar speakers (like QS8) and direct radiating like M22s all four in surround and rear surround? I am wondering in an imaginary setup one could use the M22s in a 5.1 music setup and all 7.1 in a movie. I know this may sound weird but, when I think of my future HT, I like to imagine all these...

Some good comments here, all valid viewpoints as this is a very subjective question. I agree that you should try running some temporary wire and test the extra channel(s) if you can before making the permanent investment. Best way to know for yourself.

It's true that Dobly EX is a matrixed 6th channel but DTS ES can provide a discrete 6th channel. Available in a few titles (Lord of the Rings 1/2 Extended Editions, Chicken Run, etc). Hopefully more and more to come.

I apologize for my error regarding the existence of discrete 6.1 material, and appreciate the kind way our colleagues corrected it. I learn something new every day!

I have 7.1 and prewired my basement to accomodate for 7.1

Denon 2805
Axiom 60s 150 350 4-Qs8's
Sanyo Z2 projector
Panasonic S97S DVD

When they start doing 7.1 discrete channels are we going to have to upgrade our pre amp/AV receivers or will they be able to handle this as long as it is DTS or DD????

HMMM interesting

I have a short listening position at 9 feet. I was thinking about moving the couch out from the wall just far enough to put a small speaker on the floor firing upward for 6.1.

Any thoughts?

I would not put it on the floor, as the recommended location is above the surround speakers.. Also, the couch may take the sound effect away all together.

The reason for this thought....been there done that. I thought I could get away by not poking holes in the walls...but it just didnt create the effect. Mounting the speakers about 2-3 feet higher then the surrounds made the rear surround stand out in as far as effects from various sources.

I don't have a surround to place as a back so I was thinking of a speaker I have that is like an M3 that would fire directionally upward.

Doug, similar arrangements have been used by others who didn't have room for a conventional setup. The results were reported as being fairly worthwhile, and certainly it'd be worth at least trying.

mikei:

When I started with Axiom, I did a little time with a rear channel (6.1). After a while I decided to complement the Matrix7 decoding or the Enhanced Stereo (all the L/R speakers), so I went for 2 M22's for rear.

I consider this very nice for music, and the M22 I use them by themselves sometimes. they are awesome.

For movies, the M22 pair in the rear really fullfill the space, being just a foot less separated each other than the fronts, to help the rear/center image, but looking at your space behind the couch (just 2ft) I think that will be better to have 1xQS in the rear. 2ft for a pair of M22 will not be enough to have separation between them if you want to have a good soundstage and stereo imaging at your listening position at the same time that reproducing the effects of a rear-center channel in 6.1 movies.

At least, this is how i perceived the 6.1 vs 7.1 in my place.

How separated are your M60's and how far?

Regards

I had 5.1 setup for about a year and added extra pair of QS8's recently. In many cases they are almost silent (most movies even with DPLIIx engaged send very little to the back). When they do however the effect is very tight. For example one of the final scenes in Spiderman 2 when there are voices from the back is very disctinct. I have second row very close to the back wall and so I went with QS8 and not direct radiating speakers such as M2 or M3. I don't regret - otherwise I think that would be too localized to a speaker just over your ears.
For DVD-Audio and SACD playback (using analogue 7.1 inputs on the reciever) I bridged the inputs for rears and the sides. This pushes surround information to the side-rear pairs and to me sounds much more balanced than when just the sides were playing (my "sides" are slightly to the front of the seating, especially the second row so this bridging brings it more in line with Dolby recommendations).
Axiom Setup

My m60s are about 8 feet apart. One on each side of the big screen. I will my front setup from left to right.

1. My component rack.
2. 1 m60
3. Big Screen TV
4. 1 m60
5. EP 500

My rear qs8s are about 12 feet apart from each other and about 7.5 feet up, mounted on the wall. They are about 12 to 13 feet from the m60s across the room.

Unfortunately, if I were to get additional speakers (6.1 and 7.1) they couldn't be wall mounted due to the window behind the couch. I would have to place them on the stands. That would make them about 3 feet lower than the existing qs8s.

Let me know your thoughts.